Loss of salvation.

[NoNameMcgee]

That's because they didn't do his will. That doesn't change the fact that they thought of themselves as Christians.

the fact is they never lost salvation

they boasted of their works

and romans 9-10 seems to describe this sort clearly



romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

romans 10
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above



these are those He never knew


never lost salvation


im not pretending anyone in unbelief is saved

or reprobates

or false believers


im defending the eternal security promised to all true sons/daughters of God with a new heart and spirit



also


..... *bump*
1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
___________

James 2:10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

_______________

romans 3

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

[BillG]

What I find extraordinary is that a Christian brother thinks he has a right to condemn me for simply discussing doctrinal ideas. If you can't tell the difference between discussing ideas and labeling persons, then there's really no point in us having a conversation because you will just be offended for no reason.

If I am offended then there is a reason.
If you cannot see it even when I have tried to explain it then the issue is yours and not mine as you have not tried to address it.

I may have totally misinterpreted you.

That I acknowledge and if I have then please forgive me.

If I am totally honest I got upset with your response to Ralph that today's Church is basically Gnostic.
That today's Church has no regard to holiness. I found that offensive.
I am part of today's church and believe me I have a total regard to holiness and sanctification.
I'm also passionate about waking with people who are struggling with sin and life.
People who love Jesus yet struggle.

So that's why I have got a bit hot headed as I see you saying the same.

Maybe I have let my emotions get in the way.

You don't know this but I was the person that was written off as losing salvation, was judged and so on.

But I never lost my faith in Jesus, just in people and the church.

You have acknowledged that I'm a Christian Brother. Thank you.

You have also acknowledged that you feel I have condemned you.
They being the case I have fallen foul of what I have accused off.

For this I am sorry and ask that you forgive me.

Truly in my heart in have no desire for discord. I will always stand for what I believe to be true, just as you do.
It takes the Holy Spirit in us to reveal lies and replace with truth.

It's the truth I seek just as you do.

As I said I have no desire for discord but to walk in love. Just as Jesus asked us to do.

So my brother in Jesus.

I offer an olive branch, one of forgiveness and one of love.

Maybe we can get through this impasse.

Bill

 

[Magenta]

That's because they didn't do his will. That doesn't change the fact that they thought of themselves as Christians.

Confession: sometimes I wonder if I really am born again, because I recognize that I am incapable of loving others as God would have me do. I have no doubt that God knows me, and called me out of the world, and the worldly way I was living prior to my conversion. I heard and recognized His voice, and eventually submitted to accept the gospel, my need of Jesus Christ, and the covering of His righteous blood in payment for my sins, that I may be reconciled to God, and attain to life ever after. Scripture says those who are His hear Him, and recognize Him. If it were not for that, I might think myself doomed to destruction, because beside seeing His goodness and grace, to look at myself, what I predominantly see in myself is failure to live according to His standards.

​

 

[BillG]

When I say death penalty I am speaking of spiritual death and not physical death. But God has the power to bring us back to life if we only go to him with a contrite heart and a firm purpose of amendment and ask him for forgiveness.

So if we die before we confess a sin we have committed then we are separated from God forever?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Confession: sometimes I wonder if I really am born again, because I recognize that I am incapable of loving others as God would have me do. I have no doubt that God knows me, and called me out of the world, and the worldly way I was living prior to my conversion. I heard and recognized His voice, and eventually submitted to accept the gospel, my need of Jesus Christ, and the covering of His righteous blood in payment for my sins, that I may be reconciled to God, and attain to life ever after. Scripture says those who are His hear Him, and recognize Him. If it were not for that, I might think myself doomed to destruction, because beside seeing His goodness and grace, to look at myself, what I predominantly see in myself is failure to live according to His standards.

​

SISTER

it is GOOOOOOOD to examine your faith and wether or not you be walking according to the spirit


it is GOOD to examine His works in you to see

"yes i am indeed a new creature"

and give thanks
and say sorry

and acknowledge you own weakness and need for His righteousness

and strive unto every good work out of love for Him who loved you first

this is what our walk ought to look like


but please dont let the enemy steal your joy or assurance

 

[UnderGrace]

There is some irony here since Jesus said this to people who were bragging about their works.

That is not what Irenaeus is talking about, he is saying that keeping the commandments saves.

He also believed in apostolic succession and baptismal regeneration, not sure those are biblical concepts either.

So how does a man steeped in error refute error?

Reads like the words of the lord to me.

​“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21​

And, no, I don't consider being born from above gnosticism. It is what enables us to live the life described above by Jesus and Irenaeus.

 

[Magenta]

SISTER

it is GOOOOOOOD to examine your faith and wether or not you be walking according to the spirit


it is GOOD to examine His works in you to see

"yes i am indeed a new creature"

and give thanks
and say sorry

and acknowledge you own weakness and need for His righteousness

and strive unto every good work out of love for Him who loved you first

this is what our walk ought to look like


but please dont let the enemy steal your joy or assurance

Thank you Jaime. It is a good reminder too as to why we need to keep our eyes fixed firmly on Him, and His triumph over the world, sin, and death. I certainly cannot do it by myself... and I do also very much appreciate that there are some here like you, who are ready always to give a reason for their faith, and encourage others. I love you for your passion and faithfulness to the Truth of God's Word, and also very much appreciate you as a friend and brother in Christ. It is hard to have any faith or hope in this world, when our faith and hope is in the world to come, based on the promises of Jesus.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Thank you Jaime. It is a good reminder too as to why we need to keep our eyes fixed firmly on Him, and His triumph over the world, sin, and death. I certainly cannot do it by myself... and I do also very much appreciate that there are some here like you, who are ready always to give a reason for their faith, and encourage others. I love you for your passion and faithfulness to the Truth of God's Word, and also very much appreciate you as a friend and brother in Christ. It is hard to have any faith or hope in this world, when our faith and hope is in the world to come, based on the promises of Jesus.

i love you too magenta

God has used you more than once to not only lift me up but correct me when i was in error



i could tear up right now but im around a lot of people....

thank you so much

(>^_^)><(^_^<)

(homemade hug emoji)

 

[BillG]

1 Cor 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Ah yes the sins of commission.

What about the sins of ommision?

The sins that Jesus used to separate the sheep from the goats.

Both commission and ommision.

If we look at what Paul says.

Let's take adultery.

Was he talking about the physical act?

Jesus talked about adultery.
He took it beyond the physical and into the heart.

What about robbers?
Does one have to rob a bank or steal from a shop to fall foul?
Does one rob an employer when they don't work for the full hour they are paid for?
As a believer if I spend half my day talking about Jesus when I should be working am I not robbing my employer?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

There is some irony here since Jesus said this to people who were bragging about their works.

That is not what Irenaeus is talking about, he is saying that keeping the commandments saves.

He also believed in apostolic succession and baptismal regeneration, not sure those are biblical concepts either.

So how does a man steeped in error refute error?

I'd have to look at what he wrote before making a judgment on the things you mentioned. Some fellow here once said he promoted Mary worship, which once I researched realized wasn't true at all. There's no question he wasn't without error, but that doesn't mean he was wrong about all or most things. His views largely align with most other early church fathers regarding the faith. But as far as his writings about gnosticism go, he simply wrote what they told him.

 

[Rosemaryx]

This is what our LORD and Savior does for His children...

Psalm 37: 23-24 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD.
And He delights in his way.
Though he fall , he shall not be utterly cast down.
For the LORD upholds
him with His hand.

Amen in Jesus name...We as true believers are children of God...We are not pretending to be christians , we are being changed daily , God takes us daily by step , not bounding in one go , one step at a time...

When I was born again , i was back and forth , two years ago after God called me , it took me just unto a few months ago to have Gods word written on my heart...My insecurities about me loosing my salvation have gone because I am growing daily...I know what it feels like to think one day I am saved , then the next I am not and it is not good...When I was like that , I was not trusting God...

I cried out to God to reassure me as I could not go on with this doubting , and sure enough He heard my cries...No one no not one single person can ever tell me that I can lose my Salvation , why , because God has reassured me that I am His...\/...

 

[Metternich]

So if we die before we confess a sin we have committed then we are separated from God forever?

Yes, if it is a serious sin.

 

[Metternich]

Ah yes the sins of commission.

What about the sins of ommision?

The sins that Jesus used to separate the sheep from the goats.

Both commission and ommision.

If we look at what Paul says.

Let's take adultery.

Was he talking about the physical act?

Jesus talked about adultery.
He took it beyond the physical and into the heart.

What about robbers?
Does one have to rob a bank or steal from a shop to fall foul?
Does one rob an employer when they don't work for the full hour they are paid for?
As a believer if I spend half my day talking about Jesus when I should be working am I not robbing my employer?

Yes, Jesus does say that looking lustfully at a woman then you have committed a deadly sin. Stealing is sometimes a judgement call. Stealing a pencil from a co-worker would not be deadly but robbing a bank would definitely qualify. As far as spending half your day talking about Jesus in one way is a noble thing but I think Jesus would want you to earn your wages.

 

[Metternich]

Ah yes the sins of commission.

What about the sins of ommision?

The sins that Jesus used to separate the sheep from the goats.

Both commission and ommision.

If we look at what Paul says.

Let's take adultery.

Was he talking about the physical act?

Jesus talked about adultery.
He took it beyond the physical and into the heart.

What about robbers?
Does one have to rob a bank or steal from a shop to fall foul?
Does one rob an employer when they don't work for the full hour they are paid for?
As a believer if I spend half my day talking about Jesus when I should be working am I not robbing my employer?

I forgot to address sins of omission. That again is a judgement call. you should pray about how much you should give to charity. But if you were a miser and gave nothing to the poor I would say that was a deadly sin.

 

[Metternich]

Ah yes the sins of commission.

What about the sins of ommision?

The sins that Jesus used to separate the sheep from the goats.

Both commission and ommision.

If we look at what Paul says.

Let's take adultery.

Was he talking about the physical act?

Jesus talked about adultery.
He took it beyond the physical and into the heart.

What about robbers?
Does one have to rob a bank or steal from a shop to fall foul?
Does one rob an employer when they don't work for the full hour they are paid for?
As a believer if I spend half my day talking about Jesus when I should be working am I not robbing my employer?

I stand by what I said about earning your wages but some jobs do not require a lot of activity so if you are not supposed to be doing something for your employer by all means use your time to talk about Jesus.

 

[Didymous]

Yes, if it is a serious sin.

There are sins that aren't serious?

 

[UnderGrace]

We can never live to His standard by our effort, victory is found in living out the gift He has already given us.

Knowing who we are in Christ, a new creation, sanctified, set apart, is what brings assurance and victory....this gentleman says it well....

"Sanctification is an event first where we are separated unto Christ (our position) and made holy once and for all, and then it’s a process where we learn to live out of that position of holiness. The process doesn’t sanctify us, it teaches us how to live a sanctified life."
Ryan Rufus

Confession: sometimes I wonder if I really am born again, because I recognize that I am incapable of loving others as God would have me do. I have no doubt that God knows me, and called me out of the world, and the worldly way I was living prior to my conversion. I heard and recognized His voice, and eventually submitted to accept the gospel, my need of Jesus Christ, and the covering of His righteous blood in payment for my sins, that I may be reconciled to God, and attain to life ever after. Scripture says those who are His hear Him, and recognize Him. If it were not for that, I might think myself doomed to destruction, because beside seeing His goodness and grace, to look at myself, what I predominantly see in myself is failure to live according to His standards.

​

 

[ELOHIMLOGOS]

This probably won't be a long thread BUT

I would like ask those who believe that we can lose salvation the following.

1. At what point does one lose their salvation?
Once you have died if you have not repented from your sins, confessed your sins and believed the Gospel

2. What would cause this to happen? = SIN and turning away from God and not believing God's word

3. Would you know who has lost it?
Only God knows the heart, we are not to judge

 

[Metternich]

There are sins that aren't serious?

I should have said there are sins that are not deadly. All sin is harmful.

 

[dcontroversal]

You don't think anyone has received salvation yet?

Hmmm...that explains a lot.

Amen...he is oblivious to the fact that verb tense proves it is a current possession with continuing results....also spoken of in all three...

Had at moment of belief
Has right now
Continuing to have into the future...

His false stance rejects numerous truths, context etc. to teach the lie that we are not saved at the moment of belief.....pure ignorance!