Does God Sever Fellowship With Us When We Sin?

[wanderer6059]

Yes, but not with false accusations. If she has a different opinion she's free to express it, but she doesn't have the right to bear false witness against me to try to stir up trouble. This is how it's done, in case you don't know.

• Stir up trouble (e.g, that's bullying/baiting/etc!)
• Blame it on someone else
• Offer a solution

It should sound completely backwards to those who've been indoctrinated in hyper-grace doctrine.

so what you did right here is...... lol

 

[wanderer6059]

Where does it say that our nature is righteousness? We have been given a new spirit that is no longer enslaved to the flesh, but we still have an unrighteous nature, otherwise we would never sin.

the new birth, the book of romans for starters.

you have two distinct natures in you the flesh and its desire for the sin nature, and the spirit and its desire for the divine nature. you choose what one you follow.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I've heard this repeated time and again. While we won't lose salvation when we sin, God will, however, break fellowship with us until we "repent" and stop sinning.

My question is this: How many times a day does God cease fellowship with us? Since we sin many times a day (if you're honest, you know this is true) does that mean we have fellowship, lose it, have it back, lose it again, get it back, all day long etc., ad nauseam?

And please don't bring up the old "pattern" of sin thing. As we indeed sin every day, day after day, week after week, etc. we all have such a pattern.

Do any believe we lose fellowship with God when we sin?

If so, why?

I will come back to read this whole thread and the other one I just replied to today - no time now, should keep my mouth shut until I read it all but keeping my mouth shut would take a miracle.

I think "break fellowship" needs defining.
If one thinks it means, leaving you, no way. Because you are sinning a lot of the time and not even aware that you are because you're slow, dull and sluggish. If He left you, you'd never be shown what you're doing AND wouldn't even understand scripture that would reveal it to you when you were ready to bear it.

You don't abandon a baby everytime he soils himself. You clean him up and when he's ready to bear training, you train him to stop doing it.

 

[UnderGrace]

I actually do know, at least when some people here have issues with a certain doctrine we usually try and get quotes from that theologian to support that the doctrine is in error against scripture.

Just to bring up "hypergrace" already a contentious topic, without quoting something to support the comment is like baiting.

Secondly, I do not know that Ben has ever identified himself publicly as belonging to this so called "hypergrace" group.

You should know it is a loaded term here on CC apart from any intent of the user.

So when you use it, a term with lot of baggage attached to it, of course some will see it as baiting.

Rather than use the label just put forth the idea, less problems.

Yes, but not with false accusations. If she has a different opinion she's free to express it, but she doesn't have the right to bear false witness against me to try to stir up trouble. This is how it's done, in case you don't know.

• Stir up trouble (e.g, that's bullying/baiting/etc!)
• Blame it on someone else
• Offer a solution

 

[Marcelo]

Ok so a white lie is not a sin?

Yes, a white lie is a sin, but it is different from adultery.

 

[wanderer6059]

Yes, a white lie is a sin, but it is different from adultery.

it may be different in mans eyes but not Gods.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Secondly, I do not know that Ben has ever identified himself publicly as belonging to this so called "hypergrace" group.

That's why I spoke in general terms to give Ben the opportunity to express what he believes. I know for a fact that he has expressed ideas that align with HG doctrine, and anyone who has looked into the matter knows that doctrine is diametrically opposed to what I said, which Ben said didn't make sense. So if he's following HG doctrine on the matter, that's why.

 

[BillG]

Yes, a white lie is a sin, but it is different from adultery.

So do you think there are sins that do not affect fellowship with God and there are sins that do?

 

[UnderGrace]

I ignore nothing, but I know the central theme of Paul's teachings and as was suggested by Wanderer... Romans would be a good place to start to if you are unsure.

Everything? Sounds like you're ignoring a lot of what Paul wrote to reach that conclusion.

 

[BillG]

Believers are unrighteous by nature, but they do not live in sin. They live in the awareness that they are unrighteous, yet are clothed with righteousness, and repent and acknowledge sin when they commit it.

I have to be honest the above confuses me.

Not because you have said it but the whole concept of what nature does a believer have.

Romans 7 13: on totally does my head in.

I just cannot grasp it.

Many patient people on here have tried to explain it to me.
I seem to grasp it then it seems to slip out of my hands.

Not sure I will ever get it.

 

[joefizz]

Yes, a white lie is a sin, but it is different from adultery.

Both come from the imaginings of the heart.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I ignore nothing, but I know the central theme of Paul's teachings and as was suggested by Wanderer... Romans would be a good place to start to if you are unsure.

I'm not unsure at all. I am also sure that those who think they are the righteousness of GOD and their unrighteous nature no longer exists are woefully deceived.

 

[wanderer6059]

I'm not unsure at all. I am also sure that those who think they are the righteousness of GOD and their unrighteous nature no longer exists are woefully deceived.

put up some truth then to prove the new birth isnt a new and righteous nature in you.

 

[UnderGrace]

I do not think I read anywhere where someone said the flesh (unrighteousness nature) no longer existed?

I'm not unsure at all. I am also sure that those who think they are the righteousness of GOD and their unrighteous nature no longer exists are woefully deceived.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I have to be honest the above confuses me.

Not because you have said it but the whole concept of what nature does a believer have.

Romans 7 13: on totally does my head in.

I just cannot grasp it.

Many patient people on here have tried to explain it to me.
I seem to grasp it then it seems to slip out of my hands.

Not sure I will ever get it.

Can you elaborate a bit on what I said confuses you?

Concerning Romans 7:13, to my mind Paul at times did communicate in a strange way. Ths is one of them.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I do not think I read anywhere where someone said the flesh (unrighteousness nature) no longer existed?

Anywhere on CC, or anywhere?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

put up some truth then to prove the new birth isnt a new and righteous nature in you.

It is a new nature. But it's not the only one.

 

[wanderer6059]

Can you elaborate a bit on what I said confuses you?

Concerning Romans 7:13, to my mind Paul at times did communicate in a strange way. Ths is one of them.

that section of Romans hinges on the translation of the word for "do" there are three Greek words there. on is a action, on is an inward nature, and the last is a continual action.

 

[joefizz]

So do you think there are sins that do not affect fellowship with God and there are sins that do?

I believe the key lies in willful malicious sin,for example a sin such as seeking out something lustful pretty much only effects yourself but a sin that involves someone else or along with yourself leads to I suppose what one could call "diminishing of spirit" and particularly "remorse" plays a factor too.
So I suppose all around sin is sin but in "what way" a sin comes about determines how efficiently you tune in to the Holy spirit.

 

[wanderer6059]

It is a new nature. But it's not the only one.

thats exactly what i said...