Oh goody another OSAS thread!

[Ralph-]

You hit the nail on the head!

I do wish 'once saved always saved' believers would get their act together and decide on which version of 'once saved always saved' they're going to go with.

One version says if you don't have works you've never really been saved to begin with, while the other version says you are saved and continue to be saved even if you not only have no works but have willingly gone back to unbelief in a rejection and denial of Christ.


I thought hard core traditional 'once saved always saved' believers would rally together and put down this new version of 'once saved always saved' but they seem oblivious to the obvious and utter contradiction it is to their own beliefs.


Hopefully, these discussions will help traditional 'once saved always saved' people to see what utter blasphemy the new version of 'once saved always saved' is and start defending against it. At least the old version says the believer must have works of righteousness (or else they show themselves to not be saved).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which is why I tried - but failed - to point out how absolutely useless this discussion is

If one person comes to the truth of the gospel, you did not fail

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You hit the nail on the head!

Doublespeak they used the call it, in here i guess it is normal

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do wish 'once saved always saved' believers would get their act together and decide on which version of 'once saved always saved' they're going to go with.

One version says if you don't have works you've never really been saved to begin with, while the other version says you are saved and continue to be saved even if you not only have no works but have willingly gone back to unbelief in a rejection and denial of Christ.


I thought hard core traditional 'once saved always saved' believers would rally together and put down this new version of 'once saved always saved' but they seem oblivious to the obvious and utter contradiction it is to their own beliefs.


Hopefully, these discussions will help traditional 'once saved always saved' people to see what utter blasphemy the new version of 'once saved always saved' is and start defending against it. At least the old version says the believerm
must have works of righteousness (or else they show themselves to not be saved).

i wish you legalist would be more sincere in how you interact with people, more honest about your interpretation of what they say, and more precise on what they really teach.

and while your at it, more honest with what Gods word says. I have been told i wish to much, it won’t happen, but i have faith, saul came out from under it, others can too.

 

[Ralph-]

i wish you legalist would be more sincere in how you interact with people, more honest about your interpretation of what they say, and more precise on what they really teach.

and while your at it, more honest with what Gods word says. I have been told i wish to much, it won’t happen, but i have faith, saul came out from under it, others can too.

If I'm a legalist for believing that saved people have, and must have works, or else they are not saved, then you are a legalist too.

 

[preston39]

If I'm a legalist for believing that saved people have, and must have works, or else they are not saved, then you are a legalist too.

R....,

Follow scriptures;

After we have repented and been baptized we are on the road of righteous living. Then our objective must include qualifying for the five crowns;
crown of righteousness,
crown of life,
crown of glory,
crown of rejoicing,
and the incorruptible crown.

2 Timothy 2:5 - And if a man also strive for masteries, [yet] is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

“There are no CROWN-WEARERS in Heaven who were not CROSS-BEARERS here below."​

​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If I'm a legalist for believing that saved people have, and must have works, or else they are not saved, then you are a legalist too.

No, your a oegalist because you believe salvation can be lost, or must be maintained by what you do or do not do, (self) you claim to depend on christ, but your words say different.

Works are topics for what happens after a person is given eternal life, not before. Your too focused on self to see that

 

[Ralph-]

No, your a oegalist because you believe salvation can be lost, or must be maintained by what you do or do not do...

That's not the definition of a legalist. A legalist is not defined by if a person has to believe in Christ to be saved and stay saved.


You do not understand Paul's teaching. You think he said if you have to do ANYTHING (even believing) then you are trying to save yourself. What he said is if have to do THE WORKS OF THE LAW to be saved then you are trying to save yourself.


But if you disagree with that just show us the scripture that says trusting in Christ to be saved and stay saved is you trying to save yourself. So far you have not been able to do that. We know why......no scripture exists that says that. You invented that doctrine out of your own misunderstanding of Paul's 'faith vs. works' teaching. You think he said if you do ANYTHING at all to be saved it's you trying to save yourself.

Don't feel too bad. Many in the church misunderstand Paul that way too.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's not the definition of a legalist. A legalist is not defined by if a person has to believe in Christ to be saved and stay saved.

a legalist is defined as a person who believes salvation is earned, maintained or can be lost based on what that person does or does not do. Plain and simple.

If you think a person has to contiue to believe, then your trying to earn your slvation, by keeping yourself saved, not trusting god to keep you saved.

You do not understand Paul's teaching. You think he said if you have to do ANYTHING (even believing) then you are trying to save yourself. What he said is if have to do THE WORKS OF THE LAW to be saved then you are trying to save yourself.


But if you disagree with that just show us the scripture that says trusting in Christ to be saved and stay saved is you trying to save yourself. So far you have not been able to do that. We know why......no scripture exists that says. You invented that doctrine. And as I say, you invented because you do not understand Paul's 'faith vs. works' teaching. You think he said if you do ANYTHING at all to be saved it's you trying to save yourself.

Don't feel bad. Many in the church misunderstand Paul that way too.

no, you do not understand what paul said, not me my friend, paul said to be absent was to be present, he said we had eternal life, he said we were sealed by the spirit, he said we have been give all things in christ he said we were risen with christ, he said we were secure in christ, and our faith was based on this knowledge.


Keep trying to earn your salvation and boasting inself. See how far it gets you

 

[Ralph-]

If you think a person has to contiue to believe, then your trying to earn your slvation, by keeping yourself saved,not trusting god to keep you saved.

Trusting God IS believing. You know this, right?

no, you do not understand what paul said, not me my friend, paul said to be absent was to be present, he said we had eternal life, he said we were sealed by the spirit, he said we have been give all things in christ he said we were risen with christ, he said we were secure in christ, and our faith was based on this knowledge.

You did not even address what I said. You slipped into your 'once saved always saved' rut again.


You think Paul said if you do anything at all to be justified you are trying to earn your salvation. When what he actually said was if you do works of the law to be justified you are trying to earn your salvation. You have to trust God to be justified and saved on the day he returns. You say if you have to do that, that is you trying to earn your own salvation. Paul did not say that.

Keep trying to earn your salvation and boasting inself. See how far it gets you

I see you are still not able to produce the scripture that says 'trusting/believing' is you trying to earn your salvation, yet you are sure that if you have to do that, that is you trying to earn your salvation. Your error comes from thinking that Paul said if you have to do ANYTHING to be justified then you are trying to earn justification as payment due to you. He did not say that. Doing works of the law to be justified is what constitutes a person trying to earn justification.

 

[dcontroversal]

No, your a oegalist because you believe salvation can be lost, or must be maintained by what you do or do not do, (self) you claim to depend on christ, but your words say different.

Works are topics for what happens after a person is given eternal life, not before. Your too focused on self to see that

Amen.....100% agree.......!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You think Paul said if you do anything at all to be justified you are trying to earn your salvation. When what he actually said was if you do works of the law to be justified you are trying to earn your salvation. You have to trust God to be justified and saved on the day he returns. You say if you have to do that, that is you trying to earn your own salvation. Paul did not say that.

Doesn't matter. Trying to justify ourselves by doing things doesn't work. Man's laws, GOD's laws, doesn't matter. Same effect.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Trusting God IS believing. You know this, right?

yeah and i trusted god 40 years ago to save my soul, and that trust has never wavered.

Since then i have been learning to grust him in other area ps of my life,

when are you going to trust him for your eternal life?

You did not even address what I said. You slipped into your 'once saved always saved' rut again.

i told you what paul said, sorry you disagree with paul

You think Paul said if you do anything at all to be justified you are trying to earn your salvation. When what he actually said was if you do works of the law to be justified you are trying to earn your salvation. You have to trust God to be justified and saved on the day he returns. You say if you have to do that, that is you trying to earn your own salvation. Paul did not say that.

Wrong, paul did not say law in eph when he said no works, he did not mention law in titus when he said no works of righteousness in which we have done, he did not mention law in romans 4.so get ver trying to add to the word of God

I see you are still not able to produce the scripture that says 'trusting/believing' is you trying to earn your salvation, yet you are sure that if you have to do that, that is you trying to earn your salvation. Your error comes from thinking that Paul said if you have to do ANYTHING to be justified then you are trying to earn justification as payment due to you. He did not say that. Doing works of the law to be justified is what constitutes a person trying to earn justification.

We did. Many times you just cant see it, all i need is to show where jesus said whoever believes HAS ETERNAL life, if you have it you cant lose it, eternal is forever,

You think eternal life is some religius hing not an actual promise that whoever believ s will never die and live foever.
sorry you lost tbis argument

good luck on judgment day trying to think god will save you based your your trust in self not hm.

 

[Ralph-]

when are you going to trust him for your eternal life?

I'm doing that, but you insist that's me trying to save myself. But if you want to show us the scripture that says trusting God for salvation is my trying to save myself I'm all ears.

 

[Ralph-]

Doesn't matter. Trying to justify ourselves by doing things doesn't work. Man's laws, GOD's laws, doesn't matter. Same effect.

Faith vs. works for justification. That is what we're talking about here. EG has been insisting for months now that if you have to continue to believe to be saved that's you trying to earn your own salvation. He can't seem to come up with a passage of scripture that teaches that, though.

 

[preston39]

Faith vs. works for justification. That is what we're talking about here. EG has been insisting for months now that if you have to continue to believe to be saved that's you trying to earn your own salvation. He can't seem to come up with a passage of scripture that teaches that, though.

R....,

I am very doubtful that it is there.

You are on the right track.

Maintain...with scripture.

 

[Ralph-]

Maintain...with scripture.

I'm hearing you.

...And thank you.

 

[preston39]

a legalist is defined as a person who believes salvation is earned, maintained or can be lost based on what that person does or does not do. Plain and simple.

If you think a person has to contiue to believe, then your trying to earn your slvation, by keeping yourself saved, not trusting god to keep you saved. ...

e....,

I doubt an attorney would agree with you (notwithstanding the legalist point);

The Bible says we must..."maintain until the end".

...."Make sure no man steals your crowns from you"...
etc.

If your position was correct then we would not be judged or have to pass judgement after death. I seriously doubt any of us have the authority to by pass that process after we die.

 

[AMIKIND]

Probably the most important topic for a Christian is, "when people look at me, do they see the love of Christ?"
It is important, though, to know that we are secure in Christ, and that all God's promises are true, concerning HIs gift of the Spirit and eternal life and adoption as His child and forgiveness and righteousness and salvation.
If a person's mindset is, "Yay! I can sin all I want now, and still go to heaven," then I would say that they have never truly repented from their sin and turned to Christ in the first place. Maybe in their mind, but not in their heart. Someone who has repented, no longer WANTS to sin, although they will struggle with sin their entire Christian life, to one degree or another. However, when they DO sin, it does not result in God rescinding all His promises about their security in Christ.

 

[AMIKIND]

If we are faithless, He remains faithful.