Loss of salvation.

[Ralph-]

Lol! Even Paul says to the Galatian believers that they were heirs of God because of Christ...

I don't recall ever saying the Galatians were not saved and heirs to begin with. I'm the one who's been pointing out that the Galatians were real, true believers. The argument is, Paul is warning them that they will lose the salvation they have by going back to the law for justification and away from Christ.

The context doesn't support the claim that Paul is telling them that they remain legally righteous before God if they go back to the law for justification and only lose Christ in justification in regard to being shown to be righteous. Paul is plainly telling them they will no longer be heirs if they go back to the law for justification. So we know he is talking about losing the imputation of Christ's righteousness if they go back to the law, not just losing the outer witness of them having received the imputation of Christ's righteousness.

and I just don’t know if you really understood Galatians 4 in its entirety it says on

7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

How in a world that being an heir through Christ would turn themselves to the law which Christ had already fulfilled. The attitude and actions of these Judaizers mixed and troubled the Galatian believers and have nothing to do with losing salvation. That put Paul into question why they desire themselves to be in bondage when it was the fact that the effect of the law was already finished by Christ.

Paul is warning them that if they become slaves of the old covenant they will not have any inheritance along with the free sons of the New Covenant.

For 'once saved always saved' to be true you have to explain how a person can no longer be an heir (by seeking justification outside of Christ) but still be an heir.

 

[Ralph-]

Your obsession with demanding PROOF for eternal security reminds me of this passage:
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to SEE A SIGN from you.”
39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.


Our "proof" is in HIS sacrifice and subsequent resurrection.

John said the person who does not practice righteousness is not born again. Is that John being obsessed with demanding proof for eternal security and him being evil and adulterous?

 

[PennEd]

John said the person who does not practice righteousness is not born again. Is that John being obsessed with demanding proof for eternal security and him being evil and adulterous?

No. I'm pretty sure I'm referring to you and not John. You remain blinded to the fact that we who are born again are the good trees that bear good fruit.

 

[John146]

I don't recall ever saying the Galatians were not saved and heirs to begin with. I'm the one who's been pointing out that the Galatians were real, true believers. The argument is, Paul is warning them that they will lose the salvation they have by going back to the law for justification and away from Christ.

The context doesn't support the claim that Paul is telling them that they remain legally righteous before God if they go back to the law for justification and only lose Christ in justification in regard to being shown to be righteous. Paul is plainly telling them they will no longer be heirs if they go back to the law for justification. So we know he is talking about losing the imputation of Christ's righteousness if they go back to the law, not just losing the outer witness of them having received the imputation of Christ's righteousness.



Paul is warning them that if they become slaves of the old covenant they will not have any inheritance along with the free sons of the New Covenant.

For 'once saved always saved' to be true you have to explain how a person can no longer be an heir (by seeking justification outside of Christ) but still be an heir.

Those carnal, worldly Corinthian believers who were walking as lost men, Paul called them washed, sanctified, and justified. How? Through the name of Jesus Christ. Those worldly believers were washed. Those worldly believers were sanctified. Those worldly believers were justified, not because they were walking after the Lord, but they had earlier trusted in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul reminded them of who they are in Christ.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Those carnal, worldly Corinthian believers who were walking as lost men, Paul called them washed, sanctified, and justified. How? Through the name of Jesus Christ. Those worldly believers were washed. Those worldly believers were sanctified. Those worldly believers were justified, not because they were walking after the Lord, but they had earlier trusted in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul reminded them of who they are in Christ.

It was not a matter of reminding them who they were, but of what they were - justified and holy.

 

[Ralph-]

No. I'm pretty sure I'm referring to you and not John.

I'm just saying what John says.

we who are born again are the good trees that bear good fruit.

And how is this in contrast to what I've been saying?

 

[Ralph-]

Those carnal, worldly Corinthian believers who were walking as lost men, Paul called them washed, sanctified, and justified. How? Through the name of Jesus Christ. Those worldly believers were washed. Those worldly believers were sanctified. Those worldly believers were justified, not because they were walking after the Lord, but they had earlier trusted in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul reminded them of who they are in Christ.

The man sleeping with his Father's wife was not.

 

[John146]

The man sleeping with his Father's wife was not.

How do you know this?

What about the rest of them that are practicing division and strife?

 

[Ralph-]

How do you know this?

He had to be turned over to satan in order to be saved when Jesus comes back.


Was he never saved to begin with, or did he once believe and fall away into unbelief? We don't know. But it doesn't matter. Either way, he is living in sin and something has to happen so he can be saved when Jesus returns. 'Once saved always saved' is a meaningless doctrine. What counts is that you are living for God.

 

[Ralph-]

What about the rest of them that are practicing division and strife?

Paul says they are immature (1 Corinthians 3:1,3).

 

[LW97]

Paul says they are immature (1 Corinthians 3:1,3).

But brethren.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your obsession with demanding PROOF for eternal security reminds me of this passage:
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to SEE A SIGN from you.”
39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.


Our "proof" is in HIS sacrifice and subsequent resurrection.

amen, i am reminded of this verse,

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God (rom 8: 16)[/FONT]

 

[Cee]

I don't recall ever saying the Galatians were not saved and heirs to begin with. I'm the one who's been pointing out that the Galatians were real, true believers. The argument is, Paul is warning them that they will lose the salvation they have by going back to the law for justification and away from Christ.

The context doesn't support the claim that Paul is telling them that they remain legally righteous before God if they go back to the law for justification and only lose Christ in justification in regard to being shown to be righteous. Paul is plainly telling them they will no longer be heirs if they go back to the law for justification. So we know he is talking about losing the imputation of Christ's righteousness if they go back to the law, not just losing the outer witness of them having received the imputation of Christ's righteousness.



Paul is warning them that if they become slaves of the old covenant they will not have any inheritance along with the free sons of the New Covenant.

For 'once saved always saved' to be true you have to explain how a person can no longer be an heir (by seeking justification outside of Christ) but still be an heir.

Paul isn’t talking about salvation. He says why be put back under its bondage, this is a passage about maturity and freedom in Christ. All of Scripture isn’t written to get and keep people saved, God wants mature discipled sons not just converts.

 

[Cee]

Where people fall into error is thinking our inheritance is simply salvation. This is the true gnostic heresy that was warned about. It puts God in a divide of secular and sacred. Spirit and material. It teaches that God has no value for our personal physical life and knowing and growing in Him. It says God is getting and trying to keep people saved. So He wrote this book as a set of rules for us. It’s a widespread paradigm that misses relationship with God and walking by the Spirit in which He is our inheritance. The biggest issue is that it comes from a value system that values “getting saved” over knowing God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Where people fall into error is thinking our inheritance is simply salvation. This is the true gnostic heresy that was warned about. It puts God in a divide of secular and sacred. Spirit and material. It teaches that God has no value for our personal physical life and knowing and growing in Him. It says God is getting and trying to keep people saved. So He wrote this book as a set of rules for us. It’s a widespread paradigm that misses relationship with God and walking by the Spirit in which He is our inheritance. The biggest issue is that it comes from a value system that values “getting saved” over knowing God.

I can't find anything accurate in what you wrote. The gnostics taught that salvation was knowing the inner divine nature, whereas Christians taught that salvation came through doing GOD's will. That's what gnosis means - knowing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can't find anything accurate in what you wrote. The gnostics taught that salvation was knowing the inner divine nature, whereas Christians taught that salvation came through doing GOD's will. That's what gnosis means - knowing.

The true christians taught that salvation came theouh the cross. Not by works,

thats your first problem.

 

[Cee]

It is through knowing Him that we are purified as He is pure. Paul isn’t trying to get people to work harder for their salvation, he’s leading them to being transformed through relationship with God. That’s the point of being sons and having us call Him Father. Gnostic thought teaches sanctification is what we must do instead of it being part of our inheritance in Christ because it doesn’t value truly knowing Him.

 

[Cee]

I can't find anything accurate in what you wrote. The gnostics taught that salvation was knowing the inner divine nature, whereas Christians taught that salvation came through doing GOD's will. That's what gnosis means - knowing.

Ive already addressed this in prior posts. I gave you direct quotes about Gnosticism.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Ive already addressed this in prior posts. I gave you direct quotes about Gnosticism.

Direct quotes from who?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is through knowing Him that we are purified as He is pure. Paul isn’t trying to get people to work harder for their salvation, he’s leading them to being transformed through relationship with God. That’s the point of being sons and having us call Him Father. Gnostic thought teaches sanctification is what we must do instead of it being part of our inheritance in Christ because it doesn’t value truly knowing Him.

The gnostics taught that animal men, i.e., ignorant Christians, were sanctified through their works, but they themselves were sanctified by a grace that they received as their own personal eternal possession. Sanctification to them was knowing that grace.