Does God Sever Fellowship With Us When We Sin?
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Here is one question, for every one.
When you grieve the Holy Spirit are you still in fellowship?
Keep in mind that fellowship means a partnership, and being in communion with one another.
Now will God ever break His partnership with you, His communion with you?
Or is it simple that when we sin we choose to break the fellowship, not Him.
When you grieve the Holy Spirit are you still in fellowship?
Keep in mind that fellowship means a partnership, and being in communion with one another.
Now will God ever break His partnership with you, His communion with you?
Or is it simple that when we sin we choose to break the fellowship, not Him.
So then wouldn't fellowship be based on us, not Him. He has promised us that righteous position, all that means is that right standing or position before Him.
Yet we want to try and blame Him for leaving us, when in reality it is our own rebellious heart that chooses to walk out of that presence and take sin. But then the door to His fellowship is always open to us to walk back in and say forgive me.
Yet we want to try and blame Him for leaving us, when in reality it is our own rebellious heart that chooses to walk out of that presence and take sin. But then the door to His fellowship is always open to us to walk back in and say forgive me.
R
Supporting material for this discussion comes from John 14 and 15:
10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you"-John 15:10-11
21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”-John 14:21
As we can see, experiencing God's love and joy within your salvation is dependent on whether or not you obey him. People who live in disobedience rob themselves of the manifestation of God's love for them. They continue to have the love of God in salvation, but they lose the love of God in regard to fellowship.
It's like a man and wife who are still married but who do not enjoy the benefits of their relationship because one has chosen to act like a jerk and distance themselves from the other. In our relationship with God it isn't God who acts like the jerk ruining the felt joy and blessedness of the relationship. We do.
Maybe a better analogy is that of a child and his parents. When he acts badly he cuts himself off from the benefits of him being a child of his parents. Instead of blessings and abundance he gets punishment and can not enjoy the benefits of being a son or daughter to his parents. He doesn't get to drive his dad's new car, or watch the big screen TV in the family room, etc.
10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you"-John 15:10-11
21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”-John 14:21
As we can see, experiencing God's love and joy within your salvation is dependent on whether or not you obey him. People who live in disobedience rob themselves of the manifestation of God's love for them. They continue to have the love of God in salvation, but they lose the love of God in regard to fellowship.
It's like a man and wife who are still married but who do not enjoy the benefits of their relationship because one has chosen to act like a jerk and distance themselves from the other. In our relationship with God it isn't God who acts like the jerk ruining the felt joy and blessedness of the relationship. We do.
Maybe a better analogy is that of a child and his parents. When he acts badly he cuts himself off from the benefits of him being a child of his parents. Instead of blessings and abundance he gets punishment and can not enjoy the benefits of being a son or daughter to his parents. He doesn't get to drive his dad's new car, or watch the big screen TV in the family room, etc.
Leaving and forsaking are two different things. Sin causes God to not do what is best for our sake- that is why Jesus said on the cross "My God My God, why have You forsaken Me?" Because He took all of our sins onto Himself God did not do what was best for His sake. God will never leave or forsake someone who is in Christ, but if you are no longer in Christ this no longer applies.
This is why we must continually confess our sins and repent of them to stay in fellowship with God. Because if we start using Christ's blood as a license to sin, we will no longer be in Christ. "But if you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins."
So no, God does not leave us off and on throughout the day, because we are in Christ and justified by His blood (just if I'd never even sinned at all). But if we leave Christ by going back to the world to live in sin (not just visit sin), then we are no longer covered by His blood until we come back to God and His church.
R
Communion is a good word to describe it.
When we are at odds with God we are not communing with our Father. Instead we're eating cold left overs in our room away from the family. We still belong to the family. We just can't participate in all the fun things families do when we are bad. We get sent to the attic like Macaulay Culkin in Home Alone while the rest of the family enjoys fun and food and each other's company.
When we are at odds with God we are not communing with our Father. Instead we're eating cold left overs in our room away from the family. We still belong to the family. We just can't participate in all the fun things families do when we are bad. We get sent to the attic like Macaulay Culkin in Home Alone while the rest of the family enjoys fun and food and each other's company.
Ok but this is the rationale with the the parent analogy
People think God's like a parent that kicks you out when you sin
But in reality, when you sin it is like you have chosen to run away from home thinking you are going after something better.
Just like when a child runs away God waits for our return, always looking and waiting for use coming from the distance(look to the prodigal son)
God never severs fellowship, you can't say it.
We do.
People think God's like a parent that kicks you out when you sin
But in reality, when you sin it is like you have chosen to run away from home thinking you are going after something better.
Just like when a child runs away God waits for our return, always looking and waiting for use coming from the distance(look to the prodigal son)
God never severs fellowship, you can't say it.
We do.
God doesn't send us to the attic, we choose to run out of the house and say I forsake you. It's not God's discipline to separate Himself from us, and to try and justify that thought is straight demonic. God would never choose to leave you in isolation open to an attack of an enemy.
Would a Sheppard put one sheep away from the flock of it was bad, or would he pull it to the center?
Would a Sheppard put one sheep away from the flock of it was bad, or would he pull it to the center?
R
Now running away from home is an entirely different thing altogether. That's akin to no longer believing.
"His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end."-Hebrews 3:6
God may wait for a while for you to come to your senses but the day will come when he's done waiting and you can't come back.
You can act badly in the house and still be a part of the household. What you can't do is leave the house. Eventually, God will turn you over to that decision to leave and you won't be able to come back even if you want to. Kids really do decide they want no part of the family and the inheritance and leave home. It's no different in God's household.
"His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end."-Hebrews 3:6
God may wait for a while for you to come to your senses but the day will come when he's done waiting and you can't come back.
You can act badly in the house and still be a part of the household. What you can't do is leave the house. Eventually, God will turn you over to that decision to leave and you won't be able to come back even if you want to. Kids really do decide they want no part of the family and the inheritance and leave home. It's no different in God's household.
Hay you ever read 1 John 1:9, how many times did the Lord instruct us to forgive, How many times do you think He will?
It is foolishness to think God would cast one away, just like the thought that God put suffering in His children. Does the Father give a rock when we ask for bread, or a scorpion when we ask for fish?
No, and to say that He would is demonic, and a twisting of scripture like the devil himself. God always gives love, the only flaw is when we reject it.
Ralph, have you ever shown that kind of love to someone who never deserved it?
If God was like how you say, would Be have even came and died for us?
Or is it true that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us, how much more now that we are His children do you think He will pursue us into the dark?
It is foolishness to think God would cast one away, just like the thought that God put suffering in His children. Does the Father give a rock when we ask for bread, or a scorpion when we ask for fish?
No, and to say that He would is demonic, and a twisting of scripture like the devil himself. God always gives love, the only flaw is when we reject it.
Ralph, have you ever shown that kind of love to someone who never deserved it?
If God was like how you say, would Be have even came and died for us?
Or is it true that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us, how much more now that we are His children do you think He will pursue us into the dark?
um, no. did Jesus break fellowship with judas, or the other way around? after God led Israel out of Egypt , they disbelieved , the complained, God still led them to the outskirts of cannan, the people refused to go forward, and wanted to go back to Egypt.
I could go on and on, but in every case we break fellowship with God, not Him with us.
I could go on and on, but in every case we break fellowship with God, not Him with us.