GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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I take the word of Jesus on the law.

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Here is the law.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.


List of the 613 laws in the Torah
All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses


Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
I think when Jesus said the law and the prophets, here's what he meant

In everything,therefore,*treat people the same way you want[j]them to treat you,
for*this is the Law and the Prophets.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7&version=NASB
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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Whoever has died is no longer under law

Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

That's us, as far as the law, which is the power of sin, is able to judge and either approve or condemn. Dead. Free!

Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

He makes the dead spring to life :)
"released from the law"

that's a good way to put it!
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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It seems to me that we can sin IGNORANTLY....does not always have to be wilfully with intent or from lack of understanding or knowing Truth.... there are various reasons why we sin and only GOD can read the intents of the heart and judge accordingly !
It helps to be 'humble and repentant and acknowledge our limitations always !
The law is impossible to keep. Knowing this God had Jesus pay the penalty for our sins. All we have to do is accept Him as savior. Grace through faith!!
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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Why ask me ? see Heb 7. Was the Levitical Priesthood set up for ever ? not every law God gives is for ever....we now have JESUS !
let me repeat what you say:

not every law God give is forever. Agree.

seem to me weekly sabbath is fulfilled. Do not practice anymore. Brother shammah keep saying before heaven and earth pass away the every Word never pass. But he AS congregation not kill sabbath violator.

if not pass mean must be practiced than he must practice killing adulterer.
 

PS

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Jan 11, 2013
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let me repeat what you say:

not every law God give is forever. Agree.

seem to me weekly sabbath is fulfilled. Do not practice anymore. Brother shammah keep saying before heaven and earth pass away the every Word never pass. But he AS congregation not kill sabbath violator.

if not pass mean must be practiced than he must practice killing adulterer.
This is the stupidity of Judaism. They are told to kill those who do not keep Saturday Sabbath, while the Ten Commandments tell them not to kill. It is man's commandments against God's commandments.

And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the LORD hath commanded, that ye should do them. Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. (Exo 35:1-2 KJV)

I would like to know who the LORD of Moses was who said these things, because he sure isn't the giver of the Ten Commandments.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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The law is impossible to keep. Knowing this God had Jesus pay the penalty for our sins. All we have to do is accept Him as savior. Grace through faith!!
So...according to you one can NEVER be CONFORMED to the image of Christ ? Rom 8v29 another scripture (among many others) down the tube ! God must not know what He is asking of us !
How can/do we worship God if we contradict everything He says ? 'In the Spirit' we should AGREE with EVERY WORD that proceeds OUT OF HIS MOUTH....even if we humanly/physically can't fully perform ! Joh 4v23.
 

beta

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Aug 8, 2016
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let me repeat what you say:

not every law God give is forever. Agree.

seem to me weekly sabbath is fulfilled. Do not practice anymore. Brother shammah keep saying before heaven and earth pass away the every Word never pass. But he AS congregation not kill sabbath violator.

if not pass mean must be practiced than he must practice killing adulterer.
You need to see what scripture says...not argue with people.
The reason we don't kill adulterers and sabbath violaters instantly as in the OT is because Jesus allows a period of GRACE/Pardon from death-sentence for us to learn NOT to sin anymore.... but if we continue in sin then the penalty of death will set in .....so when correctly understood the law is still in force, has not passed away...but DELAYED during GRACE.
Can you understand that ? scripture says we must NOT CONTINUE in sin Rom 6...breaking Commandments is sin 1Joh 3v4.
when did Jesus ever say we need not do the Will of God ? Commandments are the WILL/law of GOD....eternal, spiritual, holy, just and good !!!
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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This is the stupidity of Judaism. They are told to kill those who do not keep Saturday Sabbath, while the Ten Commandments tell them not to kill. It is man's commandments against God's commandments.

And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the LORD hath commanded, that ye should do them. Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. (Exo 35:1-2 KJV)

I would like to know who the LORD of Moses was who said these things, because he sure isn't the giver of the Ten Commandments.
OBVIOUSLY there is LAWFUL killing by God's permission as in doing away with evil - and UNlawful killing decided by man which is not allowed.
 

Gabriel2020

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May 6, 2017
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For all we know, this could be a spiritual death. Notice it said shall be put to death, might mean he will put them to death at some time, not another person. Are we ignorant to the sabbath day, and what it really mean ,or have God overlooked our transgression against this holy day.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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You need to see what scripture says...not argue with people.
The reason we don't kill adulterers and sabbath violaters instantly as in the OT is because Jesus allows a period of GRACE/Pardon from death-sentence for us to learn NOT to sin anymore.... but if we continue in sin then the penalty of death will set in .....so when correctly understood the law is still in force, has not passed away...but DELAYED during GRACE.
Can you understand that ? scripture says we must NOT CONTINUE in sin Rom 6...breaking Commandments is sin 1Joh 3v4.
when did Jesus ever say we need not do the Will of God ? Commandments are the WILL/law of GOD....eternal, spiritual, holy, just and good !!!
let see from other angle of view.

congregation kill adulterer was a law.

now change to Jesus punish adulterer.

is the law to instruct congragetion Kill adulterer still a law now?

if It is still a law, why don't you do It?

There are 2 law

1. Do not commit adultery

2. Congregation must kill adulterer.

You focus oN 1 but ignore 2.

Do you believe 2 not pass?
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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For all we know, this could be a spiritual death. Notice it said shall be put to death, might mean he will put them to death at some time, not another person. Are we ignorant to the sabbath day, and what it really mean ,or have God overlooked our transgression against this holy day.
If God were to 'overlook transgression would that not mean that he 'condones it ? so what would be the purpose of stating HIS WILL or giving HIS Command in the first place ?
 

beta

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Aug 8, 2016
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let see from other angle of view.

congregation kill adulterer was a law.

now change to Jesus punish adulterer.

is the law to instruct congragetion Kill adulterer still a law now?

if It is still a law, why don't you do It?

There are 2 law

1. Do not commit adultery

2. Congregation must kill adulterer.

You focus oN 1 but ignore 2.

Do you believe 2 not pass?
why are you so fixated on 'congregation having to do the killing ? in the NT ''people don't kill - GOD HIMSELF destroys evil and wickedness PERMANENTLY ! We as people do not have the power to do that, we can only kill physically which is not a final death, therefore not finished with. When GOD kills an evil person they will NEVER return !

Gabriel has just touched on it in his post above ....a permanent spiritual death !

Wickedness/sin ''originates'' from an EVIL SPIRIT and must be dealt with spiritually by GOD Himself. Not people killing each other.... this present evil world is proof that this is not the answer !
So please stop calling for the congregation to kill violaters. GOD will kill them if they don't repent and change !
 

lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
in the opening discourse that John writes in his Gospel, after he says " the Word became flesh.... he says " the Law came through Moses...

the Law. singular. funny how people that very selectively choose to quote Scripture give sound bites with opinion commentary, instead of letting Scripture interpret Scripture. ( it does, but one needs to read all of in context, and chronological order.)
What is it you think the Law is referring to in that verse?

The Book of the Law; the Pentateuch correct?
 

lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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why are you so fixated on 'congregation having to do the killing ? in the NT ''people don't kill - GOD HIMSELF destroys evil and wickedness PERMANENTLY ! We as people do not have the power to do that, we can only kill physically which is not a final death, therefore not finished with. When GOD kills an evil person they will NEVER return !

Gabriel has just touched on it in his post above ....a permanent spiritual death !

Wickedness/sin ''originates'' from an EVIL SPIRIT and must be dealt with spiritually by GOD Himself. Not people killing each other.... this present evil world is proof that this is not the answer !
So please stop calling for the congregation to kill violaters. GOD will kill them if they don't repent and change !
The whole argument to which is his stance make no sense.

In his way of thinking adultery, killing, stealing, etc;etc must be ok now.

If one adheres to one of those commands one must stone those who don't according to his rational.
 

PS

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Jan 11, 2013
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If God were to 'overlook transgression would that not mean that he 'condones it ? so what would be the purpose of stating HIS WILL or giving HIS Command in the first place ?
God loves the sinner, but not the sin.

Because God loves the sinner, you and me, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, this is why He came into the world, He will redeem those who come to Him in repentance and thencefore live according to His Word.

This makes the O.T. secular law obsolete.

Remember also, that to kill the sinner in his wickedness, which is what OT law does, is to condemn them to Hell.
 
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posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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This is the stupidity of Judaism. They are told to kill those who do not keep Saturday Sabbath, while the Ten Commandments tell them not to kill. It is man's commandments against God's commandments.

And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the LORD hath commanded, that ye should do them. Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. (Exo 35:1-2 KJV)

I would like to know who the LORD of Moses was who said these things, because he sure isn't the giver of the Ten Commandments.

in Exodus 20 the word is do not 'murder'
not the same word here in ch. 35 & elsewhere, 'put to death'

instead of presuming the LORD is evil ((death exists apart from this law; do you condemn God also when an animal or plant is killed so you can eat?)), i think you should assume God is good, and that God saves and preserves His people, and ask why He commanded death penalty?

who is He saving, who is He preserving?
what is the evil He is protecting His people from by commanding that they put to death the person who does this thing?
why is this so dangerous that they must die?

don't think, 'i don't understand this, so Moses must have been deceived but i see clearly'
think, 'God is good - there must be a good reason for this; what is it?'
 

lightbearer

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God loves the sinner, but not the sin.

.
Ps 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.Ps 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Ps 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.