R
Ralph-
Guest
By pure definition, I agree.
But as you and I also agree, faith without works is not faith.
Faith and Deeds
- Thread starter Tina2018
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But as you and I also agree, faith without works is not faith.
But a man cannot live out the faith and produce good works until he believes the gospel of Jesus Christ unto salvation.
Yes, faith that results in producing no works at all is not authentic faith, but a dead faith.
Yes, we are saved the moment that we believe the gospel and good works follow and are produced “out of” faith. Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and good works are the fruit.
Jesus said believing is work. I believe him. In fact, I know it from experience. Lots of hard work. But everyone will reap as they sow.
Jesus was not teaching that faith is just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works in John 6:29. He was answering the question from verse 28, in which Jesus was asked, “What shall we do that we might work the works of God?” Of course these Jews were thinking in terms of works salvation, yet Jesus corrected them.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
HE didn't correct them. He directly answered their question about what they needed to do to do GOD's works - believe into my son.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Back in Gen 15 when God declared Abraham righteous, His faith was strong enough that he was saved, But in no way would he have offered his son up at that moment if he was asked, His faith would not have been that strong.
God tested the STRENGTH of his faith, not his faith period.
So you define believe as “works” and believe that we are saved by works? They said works “plural” and Jesus says “work” singular.
The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe in Christ/have faith in Christ, then you are trusting in Him as the all sufficient means of your salvation. This belief/faith results in actions appropriate to the belief (all Christians are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief. Both belief and faith result in receiving eternal life, so they are not so different (John 3:18; Acts 10:43; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8 etc..).
Sorry that I can’t respond as much as I would like to, but it’s hard to deliver mail and post on Christian Chat using my cell phone at the same time.
First, you change my post into a lie(blue), then you lie about what I said.(red)
You've been reported.
And faith without works is no faith at all.
Can't be saved by claiming "I believe in Jesus, and that's all the faith I need"
No evidence, no faith.
Don't you think people get tired of you constantly steering their posts to say "faith is works"?
Nobody on this thread has said that except maybe once, & you're riding it into the ground like a dead horse.
Give it a rest will ya?
Did the theif on the cross have saving faith?
Yes he did. Didn't you read where he rebuked the other criminal? Evidence of fruits of repentance.
All you need: "I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins, was buried and rose again."
No works. Zero. Believe in the work Christ did for you.
N
NoNameMcgee
Guest
We are saved by grace through faith before deeds or works, apart from deeds and works, unto deeds and works.
_______________
Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
________________
1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
___________
James 2:10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
_______________
romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
____________
Philippians 3:9
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith
romans 5
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
_________
after we are born again and
given a new heart and a quickened heart though a saving faith what follows is God working in you
this will manifest as "deeds" and "works"
also as new desires for righteousness
and a new hate for the pleasures of your fleshly lusts
God chastens His children
and works thier trials
failures
and even victories through walking the the spirit for good in the long run
this is more than just deeds or works
this is spiritual fruit
a new man/woman of an incorruptible seed
though we may not be perfect while still in this sinful flesh
there will be fruit in His children
some 30
some 60
some 100
love and evidential faith is the point being made in the verses the OP posted
because works played no part in the justification of abraham
it was faith apart from works
but a genuine faith is followed by works
Romans 4
4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
________
Galatians 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
_______________
Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
________________
1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
___________
James 2:10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
_______________
romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
____________
Philippians 3:9
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith
romans 5
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
_________
after we are born again and
given a new heart and a quickened heart though a saving faith what follows is God working in you
this will manifest as "deeds" and "works"
also as new desires for righteousness
and a new hate for the pleasures of your fleshly lusts
God chastens His children
and works thier trials
failures
and even victories through walking the the spirit for good in the long run
this is more than just deeds or works
this is spiritual fruit
a new man/woman of an incorruptible seed
though we may not be perfect while still in this sinful flesh
there will be fruit in His children
some 30
some 60
some 100
love and evidential faith is the point being made in the verses the OP posted
because works played no part in the justification of abraham
it was faith apart from works
but a genuine faith is followed by works
Romans 4
4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
________
Galatians 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
He repented and justified Jesus - "We are rightfully being punished, but this man has done nothing wrong"
He confessed Jesus as lord and believed in his heart that GOD would raise him from the dead - "Remember me lord when you come into your kingdom"
Sounds like saving faith to me. And Jesus said that it was - "Today you will be with me in paradise"