Eternal Damnation for heroes???

[SillyMillie]

If God is all powerful and yet merciful, why would he send the majority of the human race to eternal damnation?? Christian or not, every human is still His creations and He cares about each individual.

Is it justifiable to put someone directly in hell after they die, solely because they were not Christian when they were alive? ​

(Even the Pope has agreed that eternal damnation would be an unfair and unjust punishment for not believing even if they're a great person. )


People who (in my opinion) deserve to go to heaven because of their impact on the world- despite not being Christian: (no particular order)


Medical Heroes:
Jonas Salk (found polio vaccine), Rosiland Franklin (discovering the structures of DNA), Avicenna (aka "Father of Early Modern Medicine"), Alfred Adler (revolutionary in his discoveries and studies of mental health and psychology), Marie Curie (radiation and x-rays),


Selfless heroes: Dave Sanders (coach at Columbine who died saving over 100 students at least), MANY firemen on 9/11, Geertruida Wijsmuller-Meijer (helped save over 10,000 Jewish children during the Holocaust)


Revolutionary scientific minds: Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein


THERE ARE MILLIONS MORE!! (Feel free to list more that you think of)

 

[Zmouth]

SillieMillie remember the Hinnie, principle that is.....

1 Tim 2:4
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Ugly]

Even the pope? Hahahaha. Like his opinion means morw than anyone else's. What a joke.

You clearly are bitter towards God and looking for reasons to attack Him due to recent unfortunate events in your life. I'm sorry what happened to him, but I'm not going to participate in your doubts or attacks.
The bible makes it Clear good works do not cover sin. That we can't work our way to heaven. And that God allowed His own sin to be tortured and murdered for the salvation of those that CHOOSE it.
It's actually Against free will to grant salvation to those that don't seek it in the truth. If people don't have freedom to choose then that's God forcing Himself on people.

 

[Zmouth]

Some just will take the long way home......

 

[SillyMillie]

SillieMillie remember the Hinnie, principle that is.....

1 Tim 2:4
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

im admittedly not very familiar with this area? Can you clarify what you mean?

 

[SillyMillie]

You clearly are bitter towards God and looking for reasons to attack Him due to recent unfortunate events in your life. I'm sorry what happened to him, but I'm not going to participate in your doubts or attacks.
The bible makes it Clear good works do not cover sin. That we can't work our way to heaven. And that God allowed His own sin to be tortured and murdered for the salvation of those that CHOOSE it.
It's actually Against free will to grant salvation to those that don't seek it in the truth. If people don't have freedom to choose then that's God forcing Himself on people.

i am not bitter towards God. I find that accusation very offensive. I'm not attacking. I'm trying to better understand my religion. Isn't that the point of having bible discussions?
Also my boyfriend's death has nothing to do with this post. He died months ago but I never posted about it.
This topic is something I've been thinking of for YEARS before I even met him!

 

[SillyMillie]

Some just will take the long way home......

so do you think they'll eventually get to be in heaven?

 

[kaijo]

You should read the Parable of the Goats and the Sheep.
I think your answer might lie there.

 

[BenFTW]

Heroics, while admirable, do not save the soul. No good deed outweighs their need for Christ. Without Christ are we condemned, and it was the Father's will to send the Son of God, Jesus Christ, to save us (not condemn us). Salvation is available for the world, and repentance is the proper response to the Gospel.

As much as we might think a soul worthy of Heaven, the truth of the matter is that the wages of sin is death. This is why Jesus died for them (atonement), and made a way, The Way, to be reconciled to God (because sin alienates humanity from God). What we deserve is not what we're getting, because God is merciful and yet also is He just, because the penalty has been paid through Christ (not dismissed).

God is righteous, just, and merciful. God's justification (as if He needed it) is that the world is perishing outside of Christ. Without Christ are we condemned. What we must understand is God desires that all repent and be saved. He doesn't want to have people be alienated from Him, and so what we have here is God saving humanity. Not condemning them, as their place of condemnation is a result of their own actions. Hence, repent and believe the Gospel.

When you understand the magnitude of sin, even more so now that Christ has paid its penalty, you see that judgement is appropriate when the Gospel is rejected. God's very own Son died, sacrifices Himself, for humanity and they would reject Him, the truth? It is an offense on a grand scale, and if a person rejects the Gospel they make God out to be a liar (blasphemous indeed). He has given us the truth, what do we do with it? Believe, or reject it?

 

[Adstar]

God is Perfect.. If He was not perfect then He would not be justified in being God..

His eternal existence will be perfect..

Anything less then perfect is corruption..

God cannot be corrupt..

Allowing imperfect beings to exist in eternity will cause that perfect eternity to have corruption..

God would no longer be justified as being God if He corruptly allowed imperfect beings to exist within His perfect existence..
Satans claim that he can also be God and that God was not justified to be the one and only LORD of all would be confirmed if God dealt with his creation corruptly.

So God who is perfect in all things cannot allow His perfect love for His creation to cause Him to deal with it in a corrupt manor..

Therefore God must not allow imperfect beings to enter His perfect eternal existence..

If God wants to Redeem His imperfect creation ( That was sabotaged by satan in the garden of Eden ) He must do it in a justified manor that does not compromise His perfect standards..

Through the Atoning sacrifice of the perfect LORD Jesus Christ the Way for God to justly justify imperfect human beings has been found and delivered..

For human beings to have this justification all they need do is acknowledge their imperfection ( by acknowledging the standards of God in regard to what is good and what is evil and acknowledging their failure to exist up to those standards ) and acknowledge their need to be saved justly by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus. In which they must be confident of..


The problem with human thinking is that we humans have a relative measure of Good and evil.. Not a God level absolute measure of good and evil.. For many human beings passing 50% in the goodness test means the person is good.. Some people have higher standards and they will not acknowledge another person as being good if they do not score over 75%.. and for some people who consider themselves perfectionists the level must be over 90% for the other person to be in their good books..

But for a perfect God the level is 100% perfection is what is needed to be considered good..and anyone who scores below that perfect 100% score is a failure.. So all the greatest of people whom humans look up to as being good,, all of them fail Gods perfect measure.. That's why ALL people need the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ to wipe away their level of imperfection.. It does not matter if the person is 90% bad or 10% bad the Atonement of Jesus once accepted and relied upon covers both extremes of people the same and ends up making both people stand before God on the day of judgement as 100% Perfect Beings..

God because of His perfect Love has made salvation so easy for even the worst of people, but to be had it must be accepted and believed.. In human relations it does not matter how much one person loves another.. If the other person does not love and accept the first person back then no relationship will be happening between the two.. Similarly Gods love for us while perfect and wonderful cannot be of any Eternal benefit to us if we do not love our LORD back.. It takes two to have a relationship..

Human thinking is not God thinking.. Judging god using human thinking leads us to have the wrong idea about God.. Seeing God as being God and not a human being helps us obtain a better POV of God.. Don't humanize God. It leads to the wrong image of God.. it leads to making God into a personal idol and that personal idol will not save anyone..

 

[SillyMillie]

Heroics, while admirable, do not save the soul. No good deed outweighs their need for Christ. Without Christ are we condemned, and it was the Father's will to send the Son of God, Jesus Christ, to save us (not condemn us). Salvation is available for the world, and repentance is the proper response to the Gospel.

As much as we might think a soul worthy of Heaven, the truth of the matter is that the wages of sin is death. This is why Jesus died for them (atonement), and made a way, The Way, to be reconciled to God (because sin alienates humanity from God). What we deserve is not what we're getting, because God is merciful and yet also is He just, because the penalty has been paid through Christ (not dismissed).

God is righteous, just, and merciful. God's justification (as if He needed it) is that the world is perishing outside of Christ. Without Christ are we condemned. What we must understand is God desires that all repent and be saved. He doesn't want to have people be alienated from Him, and so what we have here is God saving humanity. Not condemning them, as their place of condemnation is a result of their own actions. Hence, repent and believe the Gospel.

When you understand the magnitude of sin, even more so now that Christ has paid its penalty, you see that judgement is appropriate when the Gospel is rejected. God's very own Son died, sacrifices Himself, for humanity and they would reject Him, the truth? It is an offense on a grand scale, and if a person rejects the Gospel they make God out to be a liar (blasphemous indeed). He has given us the truth, what do we do with it? Believe, or reject it?

absolutely beautifully and clearly worded sir.
As I am not God (obviously) I try to find justifications and reasons for everything. I'm the kind of person that likes to have conformations (as in things being confirmed, not referring to the religious conformation)

 

[Ugly]

i am not bitter towards God. I find that accusation very offensive. I'm not attacking. I'm trying to better understand my religion. Isn't that the point of having bible discussions?
Also my boyfriend's death has nothing to do with this post. He died months ago but I never posted about it.
This topic is something I've been thinking of for YEARS before I even met him!

If you never posted about it then why is there a thread about it?

 

[SillyMillie]

If you never posted about it then why is there a thread about it?

i never posted about it until a little while after his death. (1) I only recently became a member (2) it's not easy to talk about

 

[BenFTW]

If you never posted about it then why is there a thread about it?

I think she is referring to this thread, in this post she did not speak about her boyfriend's passing. I also believe you're extremely out of line, throwing her grievance in her face like that (in post #3). She asked an honest question, one that people try to come to terms with. We all grow in our understanding and perception of God, the Father. Desiring to know the God we believe in, serve, and love. Trying to understand His righteous judgments as well.

 

[maxwel]

If God is all powerful and yet merciful, why would he send the majority of the human race to eternal damnation?? Christian or not, every human is still His creations and He cares about each individual.

Is it justifiable to put someone directly in hell after they die, solely because they were not Christian when they were alive? ​

Let's try to clarify your position a bit.



1. Do actually hold the belief God would put no one in hell?

(If you actually hold the belief that no one should be in hell, please just say so, and we can get on to the proper discussion.)



2. If you do think God will send some people to hell... which people would you suggest he send?

A. Please give the types, severity, and regularity of worthy offenses.

B. For each of your views in point A, please explain WHY you chose each offense... what is your reasoning for each offense being worthy of hell.

 

[Johnny_B]

If God is all powerful and yet merciful, why would he send the majority of the human race to eternal damnation?? Christian or not, every human is still His creations and He cares about each individual.

Is it justifiable to put someone directly in hell after they die, solely because they were not Christian when they were alive? ​

(Even the Pope has agreed that eternal damnation would be an unfair and unjust punishment for not believing even if they're a great person. )


People who (in my opinion) deserve to go to heaven because of their impact on the world- despite not being Christian: (no particular order)


Medical Heroes:
Jonas Salk (found polio vaccine), Rosiland Franklin (discovering the structures of DNA), Avicenna (aka "Father of Early Modern Medicine"), Alfred Adler (revolutionary in his discoveries and studies of mental health and psychology), Marie Curie (radiation and x-rays),


Selfless heroes: Dave Sanders (coach at Columbine who died saving over 100 students at least), MANY firemen on 9/11, Geertruida Wijsmuller-Meijer (helped save over 10,000 Jewish children during the Holocaust)


Revolutionary scientific minds: Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein


THERE ARE MILLIONS MORE!! (Feel free to list more that you think of)

How do these works justify them before God's standard of the 10 commandments? What they did benifited humans which does not justify before God. If that does not satisfiy you then read Romans 9:19-20 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”

We are but mere humans and we think we can question God, that is not wise.

 

[Lancelot]

Guys, Millie is clearly here to discuss, not debate. We were all there at one time, so let's show some respect, okay?

 

[SovereignGrace]

If God is all powerful and yet merciful, why would he send the majority of the human race to eternal damnation?? Christian or not, every human is still His creations and He cares about each individual.

Is it justifiable to put someone directly in hell after they die, solely because they were not Christian when they were alive? ​

(Even the Pope has agreed that eternal damnation would be an unfair and unjust punishment for not believing even if they're a great person. )


People who (in my opinion) deserve to go to heaven because of their impact on the world- despite not being Christian: (no particular order)


Medical Heroes:
Jonas Salk (found polio vaccine), Rosiland Franklin (discovering the structures of DNA), Avicenna (aka "Father of Early Modern Medicine"), Alfred Adler (revolutionary in his discoveries and studies of mental health and psychology), Marie Curie (radiation and x-rays),


Selfless heroes: Dave Sanders (coach at Columbine who died saving over 100 students at least), MANY firemen on 9/11, Geertruida Wijsmuller-Meijer (helped save over 10,000 Jewish children during the Holocaust)


Revolutionary scientific minds: Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein


THERE ARE MILLIONS MORE!! (Feel free to list more that you think of)

Everyone outside of the Christ, whether they be a hero or coward, will stand eternally condemned upon the day of Judgment.

 

[Ariel82]

People can argue what these scriptures mean but I believe it will help answer your question:

Romans 2

6He will render to each one according to his works: 7to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8but for those who are self-seekinga and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11For God shows no partiality.

God’s Judgment and the Law

12For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

 

[joefizz]

If God is all powerful and yet merciful, why would he send the majority of the human race to eternal damnation?? Christian or not, every human is still His creations and He cares about each individual.

Is it justifiable to put someone directly in hell after they die, solely because they were not Christian when they were alive? ​

(Even the Pope has agreed that eternal damnation would be an unfair and unjust punishment for not believing even if they're a great person. )


People who (in my opinion) deserve to go to heaven because of their impact on the world- despite not being Christian: (no particular order)


Medical Heroes:
Jonas Salk (found polio vaccine), Rosiland Franklin (discovering the structures of DNA), Avicenna (aka "Father of Early Modern Medicine"), Alfred Adler (revolutionary in his discoveries and studies of mental health and psychology), Marie Curie (radiation and x-rays),


Selfless heroes: Dave Sanders (coach at Columbine who died saving over 100 students at least), MANY firemen on 9/11, Geertruida Wijsmuller-Meijer (helped save over 10,000 Jewish children during the Holocaust)


Revolutionary scientific minds: Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein


THERE ARE MILLIONS MORE!! (Feel free to list more that you think of)

Regarding your title a "hero" can mean many definitions...
1.A person doing a selfless act
2.A person who constantly puts their own life in danger for a purpose they believe in
3.A person who has been given the title merely because they paid a large sum to help a town that was poor no matter how they got the money
4.A celebrity or inspirational figure whether good or bad who is looked up towith
-So you see a "hero" is just a "title" that can mean something good or bad and despite any "definition" God is "no respector of persons", meaning despite what is told people about 1 good deed getting someone to heaven,that's "preposterous" without Jesus there is no salvation or heaven for anyone unless one is an adolescent not learning sin in which God/Jesus attests on their behalf,granted "there is no greater love than he who lays down his life for his friend" but to think that any adult or sinner in general excluding those such as infants whom if they perish are attested for,is quite a "stretch" because how can anyone do "truly right" without Jesus? simple you can't,because sinners who have not yet come to accept Jesus cannot do so since they are still a "slave to sin" for only the "Truth" can set you free "and when he sets you free you will be free indeed" in the "old days"(time periods before Jesus)such was not the case but the past is past,Jesus as the "only way" to anything spiritually related to God as "good or perfect" can only be reached through his son,our saviour,and Lord,Jesus Christ.