Not By Works

TruthTalk · May 29, 2018

Amy Grant: Fairest Lord Jesus

Lafftur · May 30, 2018

gnosticism (notice the little "g" and it is silent - no voice - a false god - it cannot speak) is human logic- human philosophy - human reasoning...............it cannot know nor understand the things of God, for God has hidden His knowledge from the "worldly wise" - the prideful human intellect and revealed it to the "worldly foolish" - those that bypass their human reasoning and connect with God, their Creator by the Spirit. One that has been born again of the Spirirt can NEVER agree with gnosticism, for those born of the Spirit recognize a lie, for the Spirit of Truth lives in them and teaches them TRUTH.

The world will call all that are born of the Spirit "foolish" yet, God does not call us "foolish" but "wise," for the Spirit of Truth lives in us and will teach us.

1 John 2:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 30, 2018

AngelFrog said:

Jesus was not a pneumatic. That's a gnostic teaching. Why are you teaching gnosticism? It's not Christian.

Ariel82 · May 30, 2018

AngelFrog said:

This is an example of a personal attack.
.truthralk didn't even notice your signature until someone pointed it out...

If it truly is scripture reworded, the loving thing to do would be to give the parrallel scripture from the Bible.

Peter hated Gnostic doctrine because it denied that Jesus came in the flesh. People use the word Gnostic to mean that things other doctrines. However any doctrine that denies that Jesus had a human body, twists the gospel message.

Hating false doctrine is not the same thing as hating you.

Would it be loving to allow someone to believe a lie?

Ariel82 · May 30, 2018

AngelFrog said:

How much do you need to know about the topic of child abuse, starvation, raping virgins to "cure" AIDS, slavery to be against those topics?

I have reach the Dead sea scrolls and other Gnostic writings and concluded that time is better spent studying the Bible.

Gnostic writings can twist your undestanding of the truth found in the Bible.

For example they deny that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary and instead said he came ONLY as a spirit.

there is a reason why they weren't cannonized....mainly because God inspired men to ONLY put certain writings together for His Body,

Ariel82 · May 30, 2018

Maybe it's because I am mobile, but I read any signatures.

dcontroversal · May 30, 2018

Those who deny Jesus came in the flesh and or say he was all Spirit <=====NOT led of GOD and John said they were anti-Christ = against Christ

AngelFrog · May 30, 2018

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Why are you not aware of Christian scriptures that tell us about the Pneumatic Christ? You were in error as to the definition of Pneumatic. Now you're attempting to claim I'm teaching Gnosticism?

I'll take away the opportunity to personally attack me and share someone's article that is unable to be attacked personally in their faith on a public forum. This may help you understand Pneuma, derived from the Greek, meaning Spiritual.

THE PNEUMATIC CHRIST

(Sic)"....Some writers use the expression “pneumatic Christ.” Derived from the Greek word pneuma, “pneumatic” means spiritual. However, the pneumatic Christ is not a spiritual Christ; the pneumatic Christ is the Christ who is the life-giving Spirit. The Christ who gives life is the pneumatic Christ. He is not Christ in the Spirit; He is the Christ as pneuma, as the Spirit. The actual Christ, therefore, is the pneumatic Christ.
We have seen that many Christians have only a doctrinal Christ or a historical Christ. They do not have the actual and practical Christ. It is crucial for us to see that it is the pneumatic Christ who is real and practical to us in our daily life. It is the pneumatic Christ, the actual and practical Christ, who is the reality that sets us free. Do you have this reality? We all should strongly reply that we definitely have this reality, which is the actual, practical, present, pneumatic Christ. In brief, this reality is the life-giving Spirit."

dcontroversal · May 30, 2018

Another day resting sure in the promises and power of Christ.....Saved by the blood of the crucified ONE eternally by faith......

AngelFrog · May 30, 2018

John 21

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 30, 2018

AngelFrog said:

Why are you not aware of Christian scriptures that tell us about the Pneumatic Christ? You were in error as to the definition of Pneumatic. Now you're attempting to claim I'm teaching Gnosticism?

I'll take away the opportunity to personally attack me and share someone's article that is unable to be attacked personally in their faith on a public forum. This may help you understand Pneuma, derived from the Greek, meaning Spiritual.

THE PNEUMATIC CHRIST

(Sic)"....Some writers use the expression “pneumatic Christ.” Derived from the Greek word pneuma, “pneumatic” means spiritual. However, the pneumatic Christ is not a spiritual Christ; the pneumatic Christ is the Christ who is the life-giving Spirit. The Christ who gives life is the pneumatic Christ. He is not Christ in the Spirit; He is the Christ as pneuma, as the Spirit. The actual Christ, therefore, is the pneumatic Christ.
We have seen that many Christians have only a doctrinal Christ or a historical Christ. They do not have the actual and practical Christ. It is crucial for us to see that it is the pneumatic Christ who is real and practical to us in our daily life. It is the pneumatic Christ, the actual and practical Christ, who is the reality that sets us free. Do you have this reality? We all should strongly reply that we definitely have this reality, which is the actual, practical, present, pneumatic Christ. In brief, this reality is the life-giving Spirit."

You are quoting from an individual who is ignorantly using the word pneumatic. He doesn't realize how dumb it is to use gnostic terminology.

dcontroversal · May 30, 2018

HAHHAHAHAH wow...the Pneumatic Christ......wow....LIKE a Pneumatic DRILL or GREASE GUN....................false,
falsch, faux, falso, lažno, 그릇된, i rremë, falz, असत्य, falsk, amanga, ffug, ceàrr<----------------------------------FALSE and every other word in every language describing something false......

AngelFrog · May 30, 2018

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

The pastor that authored that article is not the one that publicly demonstrates ignorance.
God help you when you deny the spiritual Christ publicly.

King James Version Greek Lexicon Pneuma

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 30, 2018

AngelFrog said:

He's being very ignorant. He's opening up the door of deception to unsuspecting Christians who might be led to explore gnostic teachings.

VCO · May 30, 2018

Lafftur said:

I CANNOT TELL IF YOU ARE CALLING WORK RIGHTEOUSNESS THE SO-CALLED TRUTH,

OR THAT YOU ARE CALLING SALVATION BY GRACE ALONE, THE TRUTH, JESUS DID IT ALL?

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 30, 2018

AngelFrog said:

I just realized this pastor is Witness Lee who worked together with Watchman Nee. No wonder. They are known for neo-gnostic tendencies.

Ariel82 · May 30, 2018

AngelFrog said:

Why are you not aware of Christian scriptures that tell us about the Pneumatic Christ? You were in error as to the definition of Pneumatic. Now you're attempting to claim I'm teaching Gnosticism?

I'll take away the opportunity to personally attack me and share someone's article that is unable to be attacked personally in their faith on a public forum. This may help you understand Pneuma, derived from the Greek, meaning Spiritual.

THE PNEUMATIC CHRIST

(Sic)"....Some writers use the expression “pneumatic Christ.” Derived from the Greek word pneuma, “pneumatic” means spiritual. However, the pneumatic Christ is not a spiritual Christ; the pneumatic Christ is the Christ who is the life-giving Spirit. The Christ who gives life is the pneumatic Christ. He is not Christ in the Spirit; He is the Christ as pneuma, as the Spirit. The actual Christ, therefore, is the pneumatic Christ.
We have seen that many Christians have only a doctrinal Christ or a historical Christ. They do not have the actual and practical Christ. It is crucial for us to see that it is the pneumatic Christ who is real and practical to us in our daily life. It is the pneumatic Christ, the actual and practical Christ, who is the reality that sets us free. Do you have this reality? We all should strongly reply that we definitely have this reality, which is the actual, practical, present, pneumatic Christ. In brief, this reality is the life-giving Spirit."

What is the difference or relationship between the "pneumatic Christ" and the Holy spirit?

Ariel82 · May 30, 2018

AngelFrog said:

Pneumatic, or Pneumatic's, refers to the spirit or spiritual. Jesus was the Pneumatic Spirit in scriptures.

Gospel of Thomas 70 Scholarly Quotes
F. F. Bruce writes: "This Gnosticizing variant of Saying 41 may refer to the heavenly light, which is the salvation of those who possess it but the destruction of those who lack it." (Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament, p. 140)

Robert M. Grant and David Noel Freedman write: "This is a Gnostic version of the synoptic saying already reproduced in Saying 42 [41]. The Gnostic 'begets' within himself the kingdom or Jesus or light and will be saved by what he begets; the non-Gnostic has nothing and will be killed by this nothing(ness)." (The Secret Sayings of Jesus, p. 174)

Funk and Hoover write: "This saying reminded the Fellows of the gnostic idea that one's salvation depends on possessing - and recognizing in oneself - a piece of the divine, sacred spark, a fragment of the 'light,' which signals one's true origin in the one high God, the ultimate source of other divinities, including the creator God. If one possesses it and recognizes it, salvation is assured (note Thom 24:3, where this same idea is explicit). If one does not possess the divine spark, there is nothing one can do about it. Such a deficiency is alsu alluded to in Thomas 67. Because of the affinities of these ideas with gnostic views and their remoteness from what is otherwise known of Jesus, the Fellows designated the saying black by common consent." (The Five Gospels, p. 513)

Gerd Ludemann writes: "Thomas's formulation is dualistic. It is a matter of life (= salvation) and death. Salvation is manifestly connected with knowledge of one's own self, one's heavenly origin, which is light. Otherwise, if the knowledge is not attained, the result is death." (Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 626)

The Gnostic 'begets' within himself the kingdom or Jesus or light and will be saved by what he begets; the non-Gnostic has nothing and will be killed by this nothing(ness)."

*****

How does one "beget" within oneself Jesus?

Sounds like you have to create Jesus...and that is all matters of wrong

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 30, 2018

Witness Lee taught a form of gnostic dualism. Here are some examples:

Whenever you want to do something, whenever you enjoy something, whenever you use something, you must immediately apply Christ. For instance, you are sitting on a seat. Do you realize that this is not the real seat? This is but a shadow, a figure point to Christ. Christ is the real seat.

...

First of all, I would ask you to realize that according to the Scriptures all physical things, all the material things that we see, touch, and enjoy, are not the real things.” (Chapter 1, page 7)“…material objects: we are eating food, drinking water, putting on clothes; we are living in our houses and driving in our cars. I would ask you to realize and remember well that all these things are not real.” (Chapter 1, page 7)“

TruthTalk · May 30, 2018

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Hi HeRose, you have been a great help on this subject of gnosticism. I recall hearing about Witness Lee and Watchman Nee when I was a babe in Christ. Jesus is my all and all and I had no time for a false Christ.

Thank you and God bless!

Not By Works

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Ariel82

Guest

Ariel82

Guest

Ariel82

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Ariel82

Guest

Ariel82

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member