Not By Works

[benhur]

You are describing 1 John 2:19

I think you're entitled to believe your salvation is trepedatious. I believe you are entitled to live your humanist ideology wherein you think your ego is able to evict the holy spirit of God on your whim. I believe you are fully entitled to think as a humanist, live as a humanist, and die as a humanist. I do not think your humanist doctrine that corrupts the words of God should be tolerated. And you've certainly proved you're not entitled to be called on in Christ.

I think people here should realize that post after post, argument after argument, corrupted scripture after corrupted scripture that is marred by your own interpolation, your own desire to have it read as you wish it to and as you make it to read with your own writing, has told us that you are 1 John 2:19. Page after page, post after post, thread after thread. You are simply sharing what you are. And you want the rest of us to agree that makes us one with you. It does not. God knows it cannot.

My ideology is biblical, nothing but biblical. Not humanist.

 

[benhur]

Hi Magee, Jesus is speaking truth to his disciples in the Sermon on the Mount. He is using "hyperbole" an exaggeration of truth to make his point sure and believable.

Example: In Chapter 5:29 on adultry, he says, "if" your eye offends you "pluck it out", do people think Jesus wants us to pluck out our eye if we lust for another woman, of course not, Jesus is using hyperbole an exaggeration to get his point across and He does this all through "The Sermon on the Mount."

Point: It is the same identical idea "hyperbole" that Jesus uses in Matthew 6:14,15 about forgiveness. Have you ever held unforgiveness in your heart for someone, that is his point don't do it or God will not forgive you. Will God forgive you? Yes He will, but Jesus speaks in hyperbole an exaggeration to get his point across to His disciples, it is imperative to forgive, even your enemies.

Bottom line; know what type of language a person is using before you make an improper "Interpretation."
A false interpretation will always, always lead to a false "application" and that directly effects everyone.

God bless!

Jesus used these words in Matthew 6, but then declared the doctrine in Matthew 18:23-35 in a parable. So IOW, this saying was not hyperbole. Good try. I agree some words are hyperbole, but not the doctrine of forgivness. It is important that you have that kind of mindset to Jesus.

 

[VCO]

what does the bible say about those who stop trusting god and turn to unbelievers?

1 John 2: 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

 

[VCO]

That is CORRECT. AMEN

 

[dcontroversal]

Glad I am still secure in Christ....he promises the never leave me nor forsake me.....unlike the workers for and the I save myself crew......

 

[dcontroversal]

You know.....Jesus was very clear when he said the following....

MANY (PLENTEOUS IN NUMBER) will come before me saying, "LORD, LORD have we not done MANY wonderful works in your name, have we not cast out demons in your name, have we not prophesied in your name and he will say to them two things....

a. I NEVER knew you
b. DEPART from me ye workers of INIQUITY

What can we honestly glean from these truths....

a. They ( the LOST) claimed to KNOW JESUS <--they called him LORD twice
b. They fully expect to enter the kingdom based upon "A" and the fact that they have done many wonderful works in his name, cast out demons in his name and uttered prophetic utterances in his name.

IT is a fact that MOST religions that name CHRIST believe and or teaches the above in some form or fashion.....we can also glean that they were NEVER SAVED which goes to the root of their problem.....they have trusted into a gospel of a different kind which had no power to save.

THEY erroneously ASSUMED that their WORKS proved they were saved and also that their WORKS had earned them the right to enter....FOLKS the blending of FAITH and WORKS to gain, keep, embellish or top off salvation as a done deal is a lethal combination with eternal results.....

WE are saved BY FAITH and FAITH ALONE into the finished work of CHRIST....ANYTHING that takes away the glory from Christ and places it upon self is NOT of GOD....

WORKS or GRACE.....ONE or the OTHER....BOTH FOR SALVATION = a FALSE gospel with NO POWER to save.....

IT pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that BELIEVE!

 

[VCO]

My ideology is biblical, nothing but biblical. Not humanist.

Your theology, comes across twisted at best. Your wording is your worst enemy.

 

[TruthTalk]

if you follow him, he keeps his promise. If you choose not to follow him, he can take back his promise.

Perfect example is the parable of the merciful king. The king (God) gave a great gift to the man. I am sure the king expected this man to follow him. The man did not follow the kings example, and immediately went out and imprisoned a man that owed him far far less. When the king heard of his doings, He took from the man his gift and introduced a jail sentence for him too.

So don't think just because you had a holy experience once in your life, that that is the end. That was just the beginning, and now you have to follow (which means you do and act like Jesus did and acted). If you do not, the promise will be taken away.

Or another way to say that is do the works that Jesus has prepared for you before this world was. If you do not, his promise can be taken back. Since he has warned you, do as he has commanded you to do.

Jesus used these words in Matthew 6, but then declared the doctrine in Matthew 18:23-35 in a parable. So IOW, this saying was not hyperbole. Good try. I agree some words are hyperbole, but not the doctrine of forgivness. It is important that you have that kind of mindset to Jesus.

These parables are meant to show us what kingdom living is like. The parable of the unforgiving servant is an extreme example of someone who was forgiven yet did not forgive a fellow servant a debt. Jesus told Peter to forgive 7x70 (never stop forgiving).

You have taken a parable about teaching people to forgive and turned it into, "God's going to take away", your eternal salvation if you do not forgive someone. Again as usual your interpretations of scriptures are misguided and your applications are dead wrong.

The goal is to be like Jesus and forgive even our enemies, we all need to be more like our Savior Jesus.

Almost perfect, not yet.

 

[TruthTalk]

Your theology, comes across twisted at best. Your wording is your worst enemy.

I agree with you totally, benher adds his own twisted ideas of interpretation and then he exaggerates his application of his wrongful interpretation.

If it were up to benhur we would all be headed south, just crazy.

 

[TruthTalk]

Again I must say, if you have wrongly interpreted scripture, you will always produce a wrong application.

"Wrong interpretation = wrong application", always. A hard lesson to learn for some.

 

[PS]

I do not believe a true believer grounded in the faith will ever not remain steadfast in the faith. Your words sound as if you believe a person can "lose" their eternal salvation, is that correct.

I know people, one of them was a work colleague who lost his faith in the second world war. He became an atheist and if he knew you were a Christian he would persecute you. It was seeing the horrors of war that caused him to lose his faith in God.

Now read what the Bible says about people who turn against Christ. If the Bible says it can happen, then rest assured it can.

 

[TruthTalk]

I know people, one of them was a work colleague who lost his faith in the second world war. He became an atheist and if he knew you were a Christian he would persecute you. It was seeing the horrors of war that caused him to lose his faith in God.

Now read what the Bible says about people who turn against Christ. If the Bible says it can happen, then rest assured it can.

I understand about what you say, I am a Christian since 1978 I was baptized and made a public confession of my faith in Jesus Christ and never looked back.

I am also a Vietnam Veteran and have stage 4 prostate cancer caused by agent orange while I was in Vietnam. There is no cure only treatment and most people on this thread understand my situation, it isn't anything new.

Also every person who has been in combat will experience post traumatic stress syndrome in different degrees. To some, one word can trigger a traumatic event like it just happened yesterday.

I know you understand about the 4 soils and maybe your WWII friend was one where the word of God fell on stony ground and did not take root in his life. I'm not disputing what you say just want to understand your point of view.

Some people receive the word eagerly and later they fall away for their own personal reasons.

1John2:19

They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

God bless!​

 

[TruthTalk]

Salvation is by faith alone. Works (my witness for example) are the evidence of my faith.

Amen, agreed

God bless

 

[VCO]

You know.....Jesus was very clear when he said the following....

MANY (PLENTEOUS IN NUMBER) will come before me saying, "LORD, LORD have we not done MANY wonderful works in your name, have we not cast out demons in your name, have we not prophesied in your name and he will say to them two things....

a. I NEVER knew you
b. DEPART from me ye workers of INIQUITY

What can we honestly glean from these truths....

a. They ( the LOST) claimed to KNOW JESUS <--they called him LORD twice
b. They fully expect to enter the kingdom based upon "A" and the fact that they have done many wonderful works in his name, cast out demons in his name and uttered prophetic utterances in his name.

IT is a fact that MOST religions that name CHRIST believe and or teaches the above in some form or fashion.....we can also glean that they were NEVER SAVED which goes to the root of their problem.....they have trusted into a gospel of a different kind which had no power to save.

THEY erroneously ASSUMED that their WORKS proved they were saved and also that their WORKS had earned them the right to enter....FOLKS the blending of FAITH and WORKS to gain, keep, embellish or top off salvation as a done deal is a lethal combination with eternal results.....

WE are saved BY FAITH and FAITH ALONE into the finished work of CHRIST....ANYTHING that takes away the glory from Christ and places it upon self is NOT of GOD....

WORKS or GRACE.....ONE or the OTHER....BOTH FOR SALVATION = a FALSE gospel with NO POWER to save.....

IT pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that BELIEVE!

THAT IS A BIG AMEN! The only thing that I could add is this: Without the inner, personal, LOVE relationship with JESUS CHRIST as your personal LORD (meaning Master), you to will hear the words from HIM, "I NEVER KNEW YOU!"

I pray that the NON-Born Again, would get as EXERCISED about KNOWING HIM, instead of how many works they do.


Galatians 2:20-21 (ESV)
20 I have been crucified with Christ.
It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.
And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God,
who loved me and gave himself for me.
21 I do not nullify the grace of God,
for if righteousness were through the law,
then Christ died for no purpose.

 

[benhur]

And thats where you are mistaken

You think god saved you in the spirit, but we must perfect it in the flesh (by our works of obedience)

You need to remember what paul called people who did this

Remember too, that we are saved unto what? Good works that Jesus created for us to do. So I am not too mistaken. Maybe there are a lot of Christian who do not understand the concept of being saved unto good works. And if you love me keep my commandments, and if you love me follow me and if you love me obey my word, etc., etc., etc.

 

[TruthTalk]

Remember too, that we are saved unto what? Good works that Jesus created for us to do. So I am not too mistaken. Maybe there are a lot of Christian who do not understand the concept of being saved unto good works. And if you love me keep my commandments, and if you love me follow me and if you love me obey my word, etc., etc., etc.

I am not a Child and we do not need a baby sitter like you to tell us what our personal responsibilities are. We all very well know what our lord expects from us, go peddle your nonsense elsewhere. Arrogance at wholesale.

 

[benhur]

You believe they are necessary to maintain salvation, (also called perfecting in the flesh) he does not.

He does. He believes that we are saved unto good works. What do you think that means?

 

[benhur]

Are you perfect?

If not, you have not done what you are demanding we do, you have rejected the promting. And sinned.

Jesus has given us the opportunity to repent of our sins. I do repent if and when I feel I have not listened to the HS and sinned. That is the biblical way to stay on the path to eternal life.

Do you even preach the concept of repentence, since your OSAS concept clearly makes repentance irrelevent?

 

[TruthTalk]

Are you perfect?

If not, you have not done what you are demanding we do, you have rejected the promting. And sinned.

benhur has not a single trace of humility, his arrogance and counterfeit gospel is beyond belief.

 

[benhur]

THAT IS A BIG AMEN! The only thing that I could add is this: Without the inner, personal, LOVE relationship with JESUS CHRIST as your personal LORD (meaning Master), you to will hear the words from HIM, "I NEVER KNEW YOU!"

I pray that the NON-Born Again, would get as EXERCISED about KNOWING HIM, instead of how many works they do.


Galatians 2:20-21 (ESV)
20 I have been crucified with Christ.
It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.
And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God,
who loved me and gave himself for me.
21 I do not nullify the grace of God,
for if righteousness were through the law,
then Christ died for no purpose.

I stress good works because you will have nothing to do with good works. But just becaue I believe that good works is a part of salvation does not mean that I am NON-Born Again. I have had the baptism of the HS, just like you, but I believe now that I have been saved unto the good works that Jesus has created for me, and if I do not do those good works it is as if I reject the HS and deny him.

Not good to deny the HS.