Baptism and holy spirit

[garee]

Paul the apostle asked disciples
"Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?"
Still today a most pertinent and valid question.

When I spoke out in a new tongue by the Holy Spirit I knew with all certainty
that I had been baptised in the Holy Spirit.
My experience was exactly the same as I could read in Acts and the epistles.

Many bypass the foundation for understanding tongues in order to give it a meaning. Its sets the stage for Acts and 1 Corinthians 14.

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves Isaiah 28

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Before Jesus died and before God sent the Spirit to baptize men, then they would have been a shadow of what was to come...

 

[hornetguy]

Whenever I think of humility, it eludes me at every turn. There's no topic or subject on earth that can make me sit, blinking and dazed, like humility can. I believe no man can state that he is humble without giving away the fact that he isn't.

Sometimes I say to God, (in joking with Him) that He's not doing a real good job with me on the whole humility thing and that I think if He tries harder He can get it right. (I also tell Him to keep trying on a really bad weather day. )

Mac Davis even wrote a song about it.... "Lord, It's Hard to be Humble"..... this is the first verse... funny song....

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
I can't wait to look in the mirror
Cause I get better looking each day
To know me is to love me
I must be a hell of a man
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
But I'm doing the best that I can

 

[hornetguy]

It seems silly to me too, because it appears so clear when I read it. (I read the entire chapter again before bed and it was even more clear to me that it had ever been). I think if I had the gift of speaking in various tongues, I would not like it at all when others said, as has been said here, that everyone operates in all of the gifts. Because I would not want people to scoff at me, or think me deluded, and when a tongues speaker makes claims that so clearly are the opposite of the intent of a passage, they tend to group all tongues speakers together as deluded.

Edit: this was in response to the post by the dude in the nappy hat. You know, the one who looks a bit like sean connery.

I have no clue as to whom you are speaking... (said in my best Scottish accent... which isn't all that good... )....

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Mac Davis even wrote a song about it.... "Lord, It's Hard to be Humble"..... this is the first verse... funny song....

Maybe MacDavis is McGees stage name. They sound awfully alike...

J/k McGee

 

[garee]

I'm not sure you could call it a shadow. Shadows precede the coming thing. They speak of what is coming ahead of time.


Shadows in ceremonial laws (carnal ordinances) are used as parables. Every one of them is used in one way or another to represent the suffering of Christ before hand and the glory that followed, which is "the time of reformation" . The old testament order of government was changed and restores to a previous time period .Before there were j kings in Israel no out ward way of identifying, as those who walk by faith (the unssen) , when the Son of man came in the flesh the last days( the new testament) era began .

Various ceremonial laws to include a new one, two fold (head unconverted for the male, together with the hair covering for the female and the lord's weeding supper (Bread and the blood of grapes) that altogether make on e ceremonial law will remain in place until the end of time .It is then when we will receive the substance (our new incorruptible bodies). Today we look back to what the old testament saints looked forward to receiving the same end of faith, even the salvation of your souls


Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.1 Peter 1:9-12

Again signifying, uses the things seen to give us the spiritual understanding not seen in parables or called figures used as shadows in various ceremonial laws until the "time of reformation"


The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the "time then present", in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the "time of reformation" .Hebrew 9

 

[notuptome]

I try not to talk about personal experience , no that I do not believe your story. I just know it is not going to be accepted without verifying. That being said I knew I was saved and I experienced what was described in Acts 2 just no rushing wind or cloves of fire. Just asked Jesus to baptize me with the Holy Spirit to be a witness . I then begin to speak out in a language as the Holy Spirit gave me the ability. Now the enemy tried to make me think a whole bunch of stuff and I wanted to stop because I did not want to be making this up.



But I continued and told the devil shut up and he’s a liar. When I got to church that night for a youth meeting the gospel group was standing in a circle praying before they went to minster in music. I walked over to them, placed my hand on them not to disturb them and prayed. All of a sudden heard this language unrehearsed , fluent, and flowing out of this person. Sounding like a women Lol and it was me. My mind could think as I was speaking and it was saying wow what is that? Wow that is coming out of me , then this wonderful washing and powerful presence of God came over me . No one will ever tell me that was not God. And I see in scripture that my experience is not the exception , Jesus want everyone to experience the empowering of the YHoly Spirit just as the church in Acts did.



The Holy Spirit will not do anything to you, you are not ready for.

Does your experience meet the test of scripture in 1 Cor14:27-28? What about 1 Cor 14:22?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Oh dear, I've said something I didn't intend. McGee, could you please pass the baby grand this way?

nappy1


noun
British

• A piece of towelling or other absorbent material wrapped round a baby's bottom
  
  
  
  

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

This is what I meant.

natty1


adjective
informal

• 1(of a person or an article of clothing) smart and fashionable.

 

[hornetguy]

This is what I meant.

natty1


adjective
informal

• 1(of a person or an article of clothing) smart and fashionable.

I was assuming you meant "natty".... I'm happy to find that I was correct in my assumption....

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I was assuming you meant "natty".... I'm happy to find that I was correct in my assumption....

I could have been trying to say: baaay-by face, you have the cutest little baby face...

 

[CS1]

Does your experience meet the test of scripture in 1 Cor14:27-28? What about 1 Cor 14:22?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes it sure did , and those who witnessed worhsiped the Lord with me

 

[hornetguy]

I could have been trying to say: baaay-by face, you have the cutest little baby face...

awww... you're gonna make me blush.

 

[CS1]

Yes it sure did , and those who witnessed worhsiped the Lord with me

NOw that I

notuptome

Question you think that which is “perfect has come” ? what is it ? what is the part that is done away with ?

please answer and support it with Bible or better yer just tell me what 1cor 13:8 is in context to the perfect that has come.

notuptome are you going to answer this question?

I guess he is not : What does Notuptome thinks that the context of 1cor 13:8-10 is?

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.


The word “Perfect” mention in 1cor 13:10 that “has come” to Notuptome is

The Bible



therefore the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are done away. The only problem is the presupposing of what “PERFECT" is. Yes the Word of the Lord is Perfect but it has always been perfect and will always be perfect . So did that which is perfect actually come?

Well lets see the full context and ask some questions in the full verses of 1cor 13:8-10



Love never fails( is the eternal attribute given ) Love will always stand for ever,



Have prophecies failed ? does that mean no prophecies? Nope Has tongues ceased ? nope



Have that which is Perfect come ? If you are in the camp that the Perfect is “the Bible’

Then I could see that as being so. But I do not see that as the case , Paul had the Law and the writings of the prophets



Peter said But the word of the Lord endures forever.” Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.1pet 1:25.



Eph 6:17 “And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of theSpirit, which is the word of God;”



I guess they did not have the word of God when Paul said this huh?



What is the “Perfect” 1cor 13:8-10 ? Could the answer be in verses 11 and on ? or maybe in other passages ?

The word “Perfect” in the Old and New testament have many meanings





Old: Perfect = whole complete 2 Perfect= Shalem = safe Peace

The New = complete and A-kre-bos = exactly in ref to Luke chapter one open greeding from Luke the word “Perfect” is not what is to come by they have already.

The context to “ Perfect “ in 1cor 13:10 is = the Coming of the Lord



“the perfect state of all things, to be ushered in by the return of Christ from heaven,



Christ is the context of 1cor 13:10 that which is PERFECT has come . why do we know this ? chapters 1cor 11-15 the context is there repeatedly . Has nothing to do with the creation of the Bible. The had already the perfect message pure , holy , and exactly what to be said then= the Gospel. The same Gospel that saved then and saves today . So the creation of the bible would not be the context of 1cor 13:10.

 

[notuptome]

Yes it sure did , and those who witnessed worhsiped the Lord with me

That is not the biblical criteria established in 1 Cor 14.

Were there unsaved individuals present? The higher standard is unsaved Jews but for now let's just see if there were unsaved souls present.

Was there an interpreter present? Were the tongues interpreted for the edification of those present?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

NOw that I

notuptome are you going to answer this question?

I guess he is not : What does Notuptome thinks that the context of 1cor 13:8-10 is?

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.


The word “Perfect” mention in 1cor 13:10 that “has come” to Notuptome is

The Bible



therefore the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are done away. The only problem is the presupposing of what “PERFECT" is. Yes the Word of the Lord is Perfect but it has always been perfect and will always be perfect . So did that which is perfect actually come?

Well lets see the full context and ask some questions in the full verses of 1cor 13:8-10



Love never fails( is the eternal attribute given ) Love will always stand for ever,



Have prophecies failed ? does that mean no prophecies? Nope Has tongues ceased ? nope



Have that which is Perfect come ? If you are in the camp that the Perfect is “the Bible’

Then I could see that as being so. But I do not see that as the case , Paul had the Law and the writings of the prophets



Peter said But the word of the Lord endures forever.” Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.1pet 1:25.



Eph 6:17 “And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of theSpirit, which is the word of God;”



I guess they did not have the word of God when Paul said this huh?



What is the “Perfect” 1cor 13:8-10 ? Could the answer be in verses 11 and on ? or maybe in other passages ?

The word “Perfect” in the Old and New testament have many meanings





Old: Perfect = whole complete 2 Perfect= Shalem = safe Peace

The New = complete and A-kre-bos = exactly in ref to Luke chapter one open greeding from Luke the word “Perfect” is not what is to come by they have already.

The context to “ Perfect “ in 1cor 13:10 is = the Coming of the Lord



“the perfect state of all things, to be ushered in by the return of Christ from heaven,



Christ is the context of 1cor 13:10 that which is PERFECT has come . why do we know this ? chapters 1cor 11-15 the context is there repeatedly . Has nothing to do with the creation of the Bible. The had already the perfect message pure , holy , and exactly what to be said then= the Gospel. The same Gospel that saved then and saves today . So the creation of the bible would not be the context of 1cor 13:10.

Well in this case the word perfect refers to the completeness of the bible not it's divine character of perfection.

At the time Paul penned by Holy Spirit inspiration 1 Cor 13:8 the complete revelation of the word of God had not yet been given.

Even to the casual observer the return of Christ would completely nullify the need for any gifts of the Holy Spirit since the entire church body will be glorified along side the Savior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Well in this case the word perfect refers to the completeness of the bible not it's divine character of perfection.

At the time Paul penned by Holy Spirit inspiration 1 Cor 13:8 the complete revelation of the word of God had not yet been given.

Even to the casual observer the return of Christ would completely nullify the need for any gifts of the Holy Spirit since the entire church body will be glorified along side the Savior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

wrong the word of God had been given they had the Law and the writings of the Prophets. The Gospel message they had , none.

 

[notuptome]

wrong the word of God had been given they had the Law and the writings of the Prophets. The Gospel message they had , none.

They had the OT which the NT made more clear. Seeing through the glass darkly as OT and now in a glass face to face NT.

The proclaimed the gospel from the OT and first hand accounts of being with Christ.

We now have a more complete revelation in the NT and the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

That is not the biblical criteria established in 1 Cor 14.

Were there unsaved individuals present? The higher standard is unsaved Jews but for now let's just see if there were unsaved souls present.

Was there an interpreter present? Were the tongues interpreted for the edification of those present?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

what? the Biblical criteria for 1cor chapter 1 -16

the open verses of greeting is the believers

"verse 2: "To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

verse 7 says "so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

verse 8 "who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the "day of our Lord Jesus Christ".

Has the day of the Lord come? nope

he deals with the division as you read on between those of 1cor 1:12

I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.”
in chapter 1 Paul clearly teaches the Gospel message then 1cor 17-24

Chapter 2

again Paul says :

2:4 " And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human[fn] wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, "
2:16 "For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

3 chapter

in this chapter what milk of the word is Paul talking about ? the New testament was not even put together yet. what they did not have it when Paul told them "I fed you with milk and not with solid food; " ?

1cor 3:11 "For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. ".

everything that has come after has to be built on Christ.

1cor 4:5 " Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God.

as we move through each chapter Paul deals with sexual sin, in the church, drunkness , and etc... but then when chapter 10 starts it becomes even more direct.

in chapter 11 He tell them

verse 1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.

was that something to wait for or when that which is perfect comes the Imitate of Christ is not needed?

nothing said ever suggested somethig other then what they had was needed. Jesus IS the Perfect to Come. And the Holy Spirit is needed and the gifts of the Holy Spirt still active and needed just as mch if not more today.

 

[CS1]

They had the OT which the NT made more clear. Seeing through the glass darkly as OT and now in a glass face to face NT.

The proclaimed the gospel from the OT and first hand accounts of being with Christ.

We now have a more complete revelation in the NT and the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

They had the Holy Spirit just as we do today , and they were getting thier teaching from Eye witesses. The face to face is when we see Christ

For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face.( when we see Jesus) Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known( know what?) . The knowing there is Christ and we will have be changed

read 1cor 15:51-58
1cor 15:54

"So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and thismortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[fn]