Baptism and holy spirit

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garee

Banned
#981
Mar 28, 2016
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#981
KelbyofGod said:
Stunnedbygrace,

I would actually like to answer a few other points you've brought up but I am needing to get offline to prepare to leave. Ultimately, you're going to have to take some of this stuff directly to prayer or you won't understand the truth of it. (John 6:43-45) Besides.. you have to get tongues directly from God anyway. Gotta go for now.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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I would offer. We must get prophecy (God's word) directly from God. Tongues is a sign against those who "appose prophecy," refusing to hear it, not a sign for the believer.. Prophecy by which we can beleive God has the sign of a new spirit desiring to do the will as our spiritual food the disciples knew not of. No literal sign .

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to "them that believe", but to "them that believe not": but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Cor 14

clear not to those who have faith. Why turn it upside down and make it after the temporal things of men seen, rather than the unseen understanding of God.. making prophecy(God's understanding) without effect

Isaiah 29:16Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#982
Nov 12, 2015
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#982
KelbyofGod said:
SBG,

1) I have noticed that you've said this. I believe you in it. And I appreciate it.

2) You have said I am wrong several times, suggesting other things that you believe are praying in the spirit. However, you have not produced any verses that state any of those things are actually the spirit praying. You scolded Roger for only having ONE verse that seemingly supported his idea that the gifts have ceased. Do you really allow yourself to adamantly hold a doctrine without a single verse to support your stance?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Kelby, you don't have to number like that. Simply highlight the sentence you want to respond to, then a small tab will pop up under the highlight that says "reply". Click on it and start typing your reply. Then go back to the second part you want to reply to and do the same. Keep doing it until you are done. It's very easy on this new site. They dumbed it down for members like me. :p
 
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shrume

Senior Member
#983
Jun 26, 2017
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#983
Stunnedbygrace said:
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord's people.
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"Praying in the spirit" is speaking in tongues. See 1 Cor 14:13-15. In verse 15, Paul contrasts praying with the spirit with praying with the understanding.

I will answer that when you answer me how you think praying in the spirit in deep communion with God involves no soaring feelings and can be done woodenly and perfunctorily.
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Praying in the spirit (AKA speaking in tongues) can be done whether you're "in deep communion with God" or not.

They certainly can.
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Tongues is not based on emotion. It's a manifestation of the gift of the Holy Spirit.
 
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shrume

Senior Member
#984
Jun 26, 2017
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#984
Stunnedbygrace said:
…29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31But eagerly desire the greater gifts. And now I will show you a way that is beyond comparison.…
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The context of 1 Cor 112-14 is in the church: in meetings. In meetings, not everyone does everything.

Why would paul even ask these questions?? He just got done saying everyone is a different part of the body, with different functions and spoke of how everyone cannot be an eye, hand, tongue, etc. By your doctrine, everyone can be every part of the body. You have not understood what paul was saying.
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You are missing the context of being in meetings.
 
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shrume

Senior Member
#985
Jun 26, 2017
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#985
yellowcanary said:
Be curious no more. Lots more if you're interested.

<<<link to video where people are improperly manifesting speaking in tongues>>>
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The tongues are genuine. But those idiots need to read 1 Cor 14. They make manifesting tongues look utterly ridiculous. No wonder people shy away from it, or are scared of it. 1 Cor 14:23
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#986
Nov 12, 2015
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#986
shrume said:
"Praying in the spirit" is speaking in tongues. See 1 Cor 14:13-15. In verse 15, Paul contrasts praying with the spirit with praying with the understanding.
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No. When you pray in tongues, you are praying in the spirit. This does not mean that you may not pray in the spirit without tongues.

And yes, paul does contrast praying in spirit with praying with the understanding.
He does NOT say tongues are necessary for praying in spirit. YOU are the one who has made THAT law.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#987
Nov 12, 2015
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#987
shrume said:
Praying in the spirit (AKA speaking in tongues) can be done whether you're "in deep communion with God" or not
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No. Speaking in various tongues can be done when you are not aware of any deep communion with God. Praying in spirit, (with or without various tongues) you are well aware that deep communion is occurring.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#988
Nov 12, 2015
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#988
shrume said:
"Praying in the spirit" is speaking in tongues. See 1 Cor 14:13-15. In verse 15, Paul contrasts praying with the spirit with praying with the understanding.


Praying in the spirit (AKA speaking in tongues) can be done whether you're "in deep communion with God" or not.


Tongues is not based on emotion. It's a manifestation of the gift of the Holy Spirit.
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I did not say speaking in various tongues was based on emotion. And I did not say praying in spirit was based on emotion. I said that if you are praying in spirit, you are soaring. You are the one who insists speaking in various tongues is ALWAYS praying in spirit, and that praying in spirit is ONLY with tongues.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#989
Nov 12, 2015
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#989
shrume said:
The tongues are genuine. But those idiots need to read 1 Cor 14. They make manifesting tongues look utterly ridiculous. No wonder people shy away from it, or are scared of it. 1 Cor 14:23
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They aren't making manifesting tongues look ridiculous. Because they aren't manifesting the Spirit. They are playacting and pretending and deceiving men (and perhaps even themselves for all I know.) They are making THEMSELVES look ridiculous.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#990
Nov 12, 2015
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#990
shrume said:
The tongues are genuine. But those idiots need to read 1 Cor 14. They make manifesting tongues look utterly ridiculous. No wonder people shy away from it, or are scared of it. 1 Cor 14:23
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You are saying that people cannot counterfeit speaking in tongues. Can they also not counterfeit the other gifts/manifestations of the Spirit, such as prophecy?
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#991
Nov 12, 2015
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#991
shrume said:
The context of 1 Cor 112-14 is in the church: in meetings. In meetings, not everyone does everything.


You are missing the context of being in meetings.
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As I said to another poster, I am quite glad that you have done many great miracles and have healed many people. My argument does not take away from my joy that He has manifested great miracles and healings through you personally.
 
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shrume

Senior Member
#992
Jun 26, 2017
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#992
Stunnedbygrace said:
I did not say speaking in various tongues was based on emotion. And I did not say praying in spirit was based on emotion. I said that if you are praying in spirit, you are soaring. You are the one who insists speaking in various tongues is ALWAYS praying in spirit, and that praying in spirit is ONLY with tongues.
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What does that mean?

As long as we cannot agree on the definition of "praying in the spirit", we won't come to a consensus.
 
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shrume

Senior Member
#993
Jun 26, 2017
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#993
Stunnedbygrace said:
They aren't making manifesting tongues look ridiculous. Because they aren't manifesting the Spirit. They are playacting and pretending and deceiving men (and perhaps even themselves for all I know.) They are making THEMSELVES look ridiculous.
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Based on what?

But I do agree that they're making themselves look ridiculous...
 
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shrume

Senior Member
#994
Jun 26, 2017
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#994
Stunnedbygrace said:
You are saying that people cannot counterfeit speaking in tongues. Can they also not counterfeit the other gifts/manifestations of the Spirit, such as prophecy?
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Prophesy can be counterfeit. That's one of the reasons for the manifestation of discerning of spirits.
 
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shrume

Senior Member
#995
Jun 26, 2017
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#995
Stunnedbygrace said:
As I said to another poster, I am quite glad that you have done many great miracles and have healed many people.
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Hmm... I do not recall saying that I had...

My argument does not take away from my joy that He has manifested great miracles and healings through you personally.
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Noose

Senior Member
#996
Apr 18, 2016
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#996
Stunnedbygrace said:
You are saying that people cannot counterfeit speaking in tongues. Can they also not counterfeit the other gifts/manifestations of the Spirit, such as prophecy?
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What happens today is 100% counterfeiting, let no man cheat you. I have been there, done that- most don't even know, they just go with the flow because they think they do service to God or is a sign that they are on God's side.

The kingdom of God doesn't come with observable signs at all. There's more evidence that what we hear today is not of God- even if there's a genuine one, it must be in private and between an individual and God only, not broadcasted.
 
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shrume

Senior Member
#997
Jun 26, 2017
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#997
Noose said:
What happens today is 100% counterfeiting
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That's absolutely not true.

let no man cheat you. I have been there, done that- most don't even know, they just go with the flow because they think they do service to God or is a sign that they are on God's side.

The kingdom of God doesn't come with observable signs at all.
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The manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit have nothing to do with the coming kingdom of God (which we are NOT in yet, unless you're an amillennialist or a preterist.)

There's more evidence that what we hear today is not of God- even if there's a genuine one, it must be in private and between an individual and God only, not broadcasted.
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Please read 1 Cor 14:5, 13-15, 27-28.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#1,000
Nov 12, 2015
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#1,000
Noose said:
What happens today is 100% counterfeiting, let no man cheat you. I have been there, done that- most don't even know, they just go with the flow because they think they do service to God or is a sign that they are on God's side.

The kingdom of God doesn't come with observable signs at all. There's more evidence that what we hear today is not of God- even if there's a genuine one, it must be in private and between an individual and God only, not broadcasted.
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I disagree that ALL men are counterfeiting. I haven't attended every gathering in the United States, so I can't make that statement. I WILL, however, agree that we are seeing more counterfeits on tv than we are the authentic.
 
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