GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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oldethennew said:
Thank You, Beta,

we both love 'truth-tellers' who know their Lord and Saviour, Obey Him,
and who really know their Bible and the Scriptures...
hugs...
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Thanks a bunch....so few LOVE the Lord.....and would rather condemn Him along with the Pharisees. Yashua was obedient to the Father unto death and that meant keeping the Commands and the Sabbath. It is obvious that the DISOBEDIENT can not see the SPIRITUAL meaning....so sad.
 
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Dan_473 said:
I wasn't talking about going back to the old Covenant for instructions, just that in the Old Testament everyone didn't decide for themselves how to keep the law.

I can't keep the Sabbath the way Jesus did, Jesus healed on the Sabbath. So again it's up to every person to decide which things that Jesus did on the Sabbath they will imitate.

If Jesus is separating sheep from goats based on keeping the Sabbath, then it would be great if there was a priest I could go to who could use the communication stones and ask him if it was okay to mow the lawn on Saturday.
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Anything we do is through Christ. For with out Him we can do nothing. Through Him all things are possible.
The Word of GOD says, For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:10)
As GOD did from HIS is a direct comparison. GOD did not enter into some Spiritual rest, He is always in a state of Spiritual rest. GOD rested from work; so we rest from work as HE did and is noted in the 4th Commandment for our edification.
 
posthuman said:
Not one jot or tittle of any law ever needed to be abolished in order for it to have no dominion whatsoever over a dead man.
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If one is dead they are not experiencing the Gospel.
We are risen with Him and live by the Faith of the Son of GOD. A new creation that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (by the Faith of the Son of GOD).

And the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word; the law) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word; the law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

For Christ (the word; the Law in our hearts and mouths) is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 8:4; 10:6-8, 4)
 
lightbearer said:
He did not break the Sabbath. He was accused of breaking it. If He had broken it He would have sinned, and I know you don't think our Lord and Savior sinned.
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correct. however, gentiles were never commanded to keep the Sabbath. so, since there is not one N.T. command for gentiles to keep it, Sabbath is a mute point for Christians.
 
gb9 said:
correct. however, gentiles were never commanded to keep the Sabbath. so, since there is not one N.T. command for gentiles to keep it, Sabbath is a mute point for Christians.
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The Word of GOD says, For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:10)
As GOD did from HIS is a direct comparison. GOD did not enter into some Spiritual rest (the Gospel), He is always in a state of Spiritual rest. GOD rested from work; so we rest from work as HE did.
 
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lightbearer said:
The Word of GOD says, For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:10)
As GOD did from HIS is a direct comparison. GOD did not enter into some Spiritual rest (the Gospel), He is always in a state of Spiritual rest. GOD rested from work; so we rest from work as HE did.
Click to expand...

the Word of God has over 33,000 verses . you can't just pluck out a few and build theology around them, though that is what Hebrew roots/sda 's do.

and I do rest on sunday. God did model that for us, so I do it. but, only Israel was specifically given Sabbath commands. not gentiles.
 
gb9 said:
correct. however, gentiles were never commanded to keep the Sabbath. so, since there is not one N.T. command for gentiles to keep it, Sabbath is a mute point for Christians.
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lightbearer said:
The Word of GOD says, For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:10)
As GOD did from HIS is a direct comparison. GOD did not enter into some Spiritual rest (the Gospel), He is always in a state of Spiritual rest. GOD rested from work; so we rest from work as HE did.
Click to expand...
Something needs to be noted here in these text. Two distinct things are being brought to light. The rest available to us to enter (the Gospel) and ceasing of own work as GOD did.
 
gb9 said:
. but, only Israel was specifically given Sabbath commands. not gentiles.
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We are all one in Christ and...
The Word of GOD says, For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:10)
As GOD did from HIS is a direct comparison. GOD did not enter into some Spiritual rest (the Gospel), He is always in a state of Spiritual rest. GOD rested from work; so we rest from work as HE did. Two distinct things are being mentioned. The rest available to us to enter (the Gospel) and ceasing of own work as GOD did. Those who are experiencing the Gospel also cease from their own work like GOD did from HIS.

This brings us back to verse four
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again (HE Speaks), If they shall enter into my rest (experience the Gospel).
(Heb 4:4-5)
 
Studyman said:
Gen. 12:
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, (DO SOMETHING) Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And (Then) I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
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There is no conditional word in this text.
You're adding it. That's just the facts.

In fact, the word in verse 2 is one single word "I will make" - no if, no then, not even a conjunction 'and' literally, in the original text.
It's a promise, and Romans 4 clearly explains it is not a promise made on the basis of any work.
 
lightbearer said:
The Word of GOD says, For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:10)
As GOD did from HIS is a direct comparison. GOD did not enter into some Spiritual rest (the Gospel), He is always in a state of Spiritual rest. GOD rested from work; so we rest from work as HE did.
Click to expand...

Hebrews also points out that His works have been finished since the beginning. So He rests even now. And Jesus tells us He is always working.

It's not simple.

But God doesn't rest ritually, His rest is real, and He is Spirit, and His rest is Spirit.
 
lightbearer said:
Anything we do is through Christ. For with out Him we can do nothing. Through Him all things are possible.
The Word of GOD says, For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:10)
As GOD did from HIS is a direct comparison. GOD did not enter into some Spiritual rest, He is always in a state of Spiritual rest. GOD rested from work; so we rest from work as HE did and is noted in the 4th Commandment for our edification.
Click to expand...
right. It doesn't mention mowing the lawn, each person decides for themselves.

Jesus worked on the Sabbath. He did God's work. Is mowing the lawn God's work? What makes something God's work?

Each person decides for themselves.
 
lightbearer said:
Anything we do is through Christ. For with out Him we can do nothing. Through Him all things are possible.
Click to expand...

Anyone can observe a weekly sabbath; it doesn't take Christ to do that. Unbelievers do it all of the time. But one thing you sure can't do without Christ is follow his spirit, which fulfills the righteousness required by the 4th commandment.
 
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lightbearer said:
He did not break the Sabbath. He was accused of breaking it. If He had broken it He would have sinned, and I know you don't think our Lord and Savior sinned.
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it's the writer of the Gospel of John that makes the statement. he is the one saying it, not the Jews

But Jesus defended himself. “My Father is working straight through, even on the Sabbath. So am I.”

18 That really set them off. The Jews were now not only out to expose him; they were out to kill him. Not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was calling God his own Father, putting himself on a level with God.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John5&version=MSG
 
Dan_473 said:
right. It doesn't mention mowing the lawn, each person decides for themselves.

Jesus worked on the Sabbath. He did God's work. Is mowing the lawn God's work? What makes something God's work?

Each person decides for themselves.
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The Word; the Law; HIS Christ has been placed in our hearts and minds. As the Body of Christ the Temple of GOD it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure not us.

Aleister Crowley said, 'do thine own will'. As Christians we pray through the Spirit, "let thy will be done"
So No it is not subject to one's own reasoning, we are a new creature in Christ Jesus.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Anyone can observe a weekly sabbath; it doesn't take Christ to do that. Unbelievers do it all of the time. But one thing you sure can't do without Christ is follow his spirit, which fulfills the righteousness required by the 4th commandment.
Click to expand...
No. Part of the 4th Commandment was to keep it Holy. That we can only do through Christ. Christ is our Rest. Because we have entered into our rest (Christ) we can finally keep the Seventh Day Holy and then we also cease from our physical work as GOD did from His. Being Holy was the Problem. Christ is and was the cure.
 
lightbearer said:
The Word; the Law; HIS Christ has been placed in our hearts and minds. As the Body of Christ the Temple of GOD it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure not us.

Aleister Crowley said, 'do thine own will'. As Christians we pray through the Spirit, "let thy will be done"
So No it is not subject to one's own reasoning, we are a new creature in Christ Jesus.
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I can't look inside of you to see what Christ in you is leading you to do.

Is it God's work for you to mow the lawn on Saturday? Or to heal?

I don't know.
 
lightbearer said:
No. Part of the 4th Commandment was to keep it Holy. That we can only do through Christ. Christ is our Rest. Because we have entered into our rest (Christ) we can finally keep the Seventh Day Holy and then we also cease from our physical work as GOD did from His. Being Holy was the Problem. Christ is and was the cure.
Click to expand...

Keeping sabbaths holy was defined as not working on those days. That is all.
 
Dan_473 said:
it's the writer of the Gospel of John that makes the statement. he is the one saying it, not the Jews

But Jesus defended himself. “My Father is working straight through, even on the Sabbath. So am I.”

18 That really set them off. The Jews were now not only out to expose him; they were out to kill him. Not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was calling God his own Father, putting himself on a level with God.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John5&version=MSG
Click to expand...
John was writing the view point of those in the story he was telling.

Jesus' Ministry was continuous. He is a Holy being doing Holy work on the Holy Day. He is blamless as the priest in the Temple were.
If He was seeking His own will; such as working as a carpenter to provide for himself then He would have broke the Sabbath Commandment and would have sinned.
 
lightbearer said:
John was writing the view point of those in the story he was telling.

Jesus' Ministry was continuous. He is a Holy being doing Holy work on the Holy Day. He is blamless as the priest in the Temple were.
If He was seeking His own will; such as working as a carpenter to provide for himself then He would have broke the Sabbath Commandment and would have sinned.
Click to expand...
I don't think that paragraph is John telling the story from the Jew's point of view.

for one thing, he doesn't say that the Jews were thinking that Jesus was breaking the Sabbath and putting himself on the level with God.
 
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