Baptism and holy spirit

[CS1]

It is funny that in the 1st century, the gifts from the same spirit included raising the dead/healing the sick even in masses- yet today we have a 'spirit' that only deals with giving the ability to speak in tongues to numerous people with no singke interpretetion/ raising of the dead is forgotten.
If raising the dead is long gone, even genuine speaking in tongues is gone, because they are from the same spirit.

No wonder it is end times and God is still calling His beloved to come out of Babylon; His beloved doesn't have a clue, they are busy with fake signs and all along thinking they are in Jerusalem.

No The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are still working all of them. And God is still healing and God is still raising the dead. Tongues is just one gift that many think have gone away . calling something fake and thinking all is fake when comes to the gifts of the Holy Spirit is not truth but opinionated .

 

[CS1]

Amen God is no longer bringing any new prophecy which would include tongues .Tongues is prophecy spoken in may languages we have the complete or perfect ..the old and new testament .why would any one want to go above that which is wriitten

I would agree with that. Tongues which is God bringing new prophecy in another languages other than Hebrew is a sign to those who beleive not prophecy, (the word of God). With the mocking lips of God called stammering lips He would bring his prophecy to all the nations of the whole world .The time of reformation had come.

The foundation for tongues cannot be ignored.

For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Isaiah

Falling backward and be broken, and snared, and taken or today being slain in the spirit represents a person is under the judgment of Christ .Those who seek after sign have made it something to be sought after also in a hope it is evidence of the Holy Spirit It is but not the kind of evidence of those who do believe prophecy. the kind of

There is no outward sign as evidence of the Holy Spirit. Why turn it upside down as if it was evidence of something good?

Wherefore tongues are for a sign, "not to them that believe"(God's word), but "to them that believe not:" but prophesying (God's word) serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Cor 14:22

Tongues is not Prophecy in the context of something new . But is confirming what is already known . A person used in the gift of tongues and interpret or prophecy does not make them a "Prophet" or hold the office of one. the gift of prophecy = speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . which must comfort, edify, build up, and exhort. AS 1cor 12, 13, and 14 tell us

 

[notuptome]

No The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are still working all of them. And God is still healing and God is still raising the dead. Tongues is just one gift that many think have gone away . calling something fake and thinking all is fake when comes to the gifts of the Holy Spirit is not truth but opinionated .

I assume you do not see your post as opinionated? God is still healing but raising the dead? Scripture states that it is appointed to men once to die then the judgment.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Kind on the same order as tossing mountains into the sea.

Is this uncommon faith?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Exactly my thoughts as well. I see many "just because you haven't seen it personally doesn't mean it can't/doesn't happen" replies but their merit is weighed against the truth of their non-occurrence(s). The 1st century miraculous was never left to question or doubt. It was clearly and plainly undeniable even and especially so to those whose skepticism was greatest. This was their purpose. But today we're often told that we don't see because we do doubt the authenticity of today's claims. If they were real and true, there'd be zero doubting to be had. It truly is as simple as that.

there are many things happening today but scoffing and mocking will not provide confirmation. Jesus did many things and yet they too dis-believed . Jesus even told them to believe in the very works that HE did too. Yes faith or the lack thereof is a big reason . it takes faith to do the following

1 to be willing to pray for the sick in a hospital
2. To preach the gospel to those on the streets
3. to ask God for the gifts of the Holy Spirit

the wonderful working of God salvation, healing , deliverance are still happening today. And I don't need to see it to believe God has done it . I have heard witnesses, and I have seen God do many wonderful things . But the word of God is clear 2Pet 3:3

"
Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires.".

 

[CS1]

I assume you do not see your post as opinionated? God is still healing but raising the dead? Scripture states that it is appointed to men once to die then the judgment.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Kind on the same order as tossing mountains into the sea.

Is this uncommon faith?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

that is for you to see not me

but way what has been said by the word of God:

Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead and Lazarus is dead today or the oldest man alive.
Context to what is assumed as uncommon faith and asking God to do something out of pride, and mockery

Heb 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.


the idea that one would ask God to move a mount and throw it into the sea is not what Jesus was driving at IF we read the full chapter .
Have faith in GOD and do not doubt. is what Jesus was saying .
why do we not see ?

many reasons

1, disbelief
2. asking out of the will of God
3. un-forgivness

james 4:3 "You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures."

1John 5:15 "And if we know that he hears us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we desired of him."
Jesus said in Luke 11NLT

Once Jesus was in a certain place praying. As he finished, one of his disciples came to him and said, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”

Jesus said in the context of what to do to ensure your prayers are answered.


5Then, teaching them more about prayer, he used this story: “Suppose you went to a friend’s house at midnight, wanting to borrow three loaves of bread. You say to him, 6‘A friend of mine has just arrived for a visit, and I have nothing for him to eat.’ 7And suppose he calls out from his bedroom, ‘Don’t bother me. The door is locked for the night, and my family and I are all in bed. I can’t help you.’ 8 But I tell you this—though he won’t do it for friendship’s sake, if you keep knocking long enough, he will get up and give you whatever you need because of your shameless persistence.
9“And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened.
11“You fathers—if your children aske for a fish, do you give them a snake instead? 12Or if they ask for an egg, do you give them a scorpion? Of course not! 13So if you sinful people know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him.”

If you are asking in faith, and asking according to His will, and persistent God will answer .
Then you have to ready to accept the answer Yes, no, and not yet
How sad would it be for a minster not to visit the sick and pray for God to heal person because if they are not healed it could make them look bad . Please that is foolishness. we ask and believe God for it and leave it up to God after we ask.
But asking why do we not see it today and do not even do what Jesus said that is on the person asking NOT GOD.
What are you not seeing people saved, healed , and delivered ? I am Praise God . Through missions God is doing it street ministries God is doing it . Local missions God is doing it . Are not people getting saved at th church you go to? If not why? Is not the gospel being preached ? Is there an appeal to receive Christ and repent ?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You gave me huge goosebumps CS1. IF you were in Md I would visit your church for sure!

 

[Noose]

you cannot make abloanket statement like that LOL . you do not know if they are fake or not . You can I agree judge if what has been said did do what all the gifts of the Holy Spirit are to do as 1cor 12, 13, and 14 teach .

I have seen many interpretations of tongues. This discussion is or was about the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Yes i can just like i can say there's no raising of the dead today - did you also see many being raised from death?
You have seen tongues being interpreted?!!, how did you confirm that the interpretation is true?

 

[Noose]

How on earth would you know that God has given no one the gift to interpret various tongues?
Just because you may have seen a run amok gathering does not mean they all are.
You're not making sense to say because you haven't seen it means it hasn't and doesn't happen...

Easy, very easy- initially, God gave the disciples the ability to raise the dead, does anyone today raise the dead?
What happened? The same spirit that caused the dead to be raised is the same spirit that caused tongues to be spoken-do you have any information as to why raising the dead stopped whereas tongues continues?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Easy, very easy- initially, God gave the disciples the ability to raise the dead, does anyone today raise the dead?
What happened? The same spirit that caused the dead to be raised is the same spirit that caused tongues to be spoken-do you have any information as to why raising the dead stopped whereas tongues continues?

I cannot firmly state that no one after the deaths of the disciples has ever been raised from the dead.
Some doctors have attested to this happening. And some of them say that while they can't explain how it happened, they still do not believe in God.

Then again, some men claim to have raised the dead and you watch their strutting and shenanigans and insanity and you want to shake them.

 

[carl11]

Tongues is not Prophecy in the context of something new . But is confirming what is already known . A person used in the gift of tongues and interpret or prophecy does not make them a "Prophet" or hold the office of one. the gift of prophecy = speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . which must comfort, edify, build up, and exhort. AS 1cor 12, 13, and 14 tell us

Let me ask you this who is giving you the words to speak in tongues and what does it mean when God says to edify ?

 

[Noose]

That's what you said at first, then you said you do not have a problem with people speaking in tongues privately, now you're saying all tongues are fake again.

Choose a position and stick with it.
.

My position is that the tongues being spoken today are fake because evidence points there.

Show me one place in the bible where someone prayed in the spirit (privately) and someone else thought it was not ok- coz i have no problem with prayers. You can go to a corner and pray in Hindu (even though you do not Hindu)- what business will i have to question the language you use to pray, is it not between you and God?

I'm against the bubbling of incomprehensible words as a SIGN that the Holy spirit has indwelled someone.

FYI- speaking in tongues during private prayer is not not not bubbling of incomprehensible words. People don't pray for what they don't know. You pray for a specific need that is well known to you. Don't misrepresent Paul- No one wakes up in the morning and says "today i'm going to pray something that i don't understand", that is not a prayer. I have said it before, the HS intercedes for us with groans too deep for words because words fail us during prayers. It's like you pray for a specific need but you don't have the words to petition the need.

Rom 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words.

There are interpreters in your church?!! Give me one sample interpretation and i'll tell you whether to stay in that church or run for your life. Just one.
It is very easy for one to say some incomprehensible words and another to say the words means certain things.

 

[DJ2]

No The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are still working all of them. And God is still healing and God is still raising the dead. Tongues is just one gift that many think have gone away . calling something fake and thinking all is fake when comes to the gifts of the Holy Spirit is not truth but opinionated .

We are still living in the physical supernatural miraculous age of the New Testament?! Absurd!

Your post on air flight being evidence of the supernatural? (Posts# 1148 & 1153. Absurd!

There is no other way to describe you opinions other then absurd.

Of course, this is just my humble opinion.

 

[Ralph-]

There's no such thing as growing in Christ...

"2Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3now that you have tasted that the Lord is good. "-1 Peter 2:2

"13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ."-Ephesians 4:13

The thief crucified on right hand of Jesus didn't have time to 'grow in Christ' yet he was in paradise that night.

Even the most immature of believers is saved.

The point is, it is the immature believer who doesn't 'know' Christ yet in an intimate 'knowing' relationship who can fall away and be lost. The work he accomplished through his gift(s) isn't going to change the fact that they fell away into lawlessness and won't be saved when Jesus comes back.

The group in Matt 7 prophesied/healed/drove out demons/spoke in tongues e.t.c all in the 'name' of Christ or so they thought, yet they were rejected, why??!!

Because they were lawless. Read the passage.

No work of service will ever make up for or replace personal holiness and obedience to God. It seems there are those in the church that think it will. Jesus has warned us ahead of time so we won't be among them.

 

[Noose]

DJ2 that is your opinon , I do not see those here as self-delusion. I'm sure you are here for the edification of each other .

I see a lot of them.

 

[Noose]

I agreed with your response but it is possible that it may simply be a matter of self-delusion. Not a supernatural event at all.

Self delusion is how the devil works.

 

[Noose]

We are still living in the physical supernatural miraculous age of the New Testament?! Absurd!

Your post on air flight being evidence of the supernatural? (Posts# 1148 & 1153. Absurd!

There is no other way to describe you opinions other then absurd.

Of course, this is just my humble opinion.

A flight is as supernatural as wearing clothes; anything within human capability can not be considered supernatural not unless the word has a new meaning.

 

[Noose]

"2Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3now that you have tasted that the Lord is good. "-1 Peter 2:2

"13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ."-Ephesians 4:13




Even the most immature of believers is saved.

The point is, it is the immature believer who doesn't 'know' Christ yet in an intimate 'knowing' relationship who can fall away and be lost. The work he accomplished through his gift(s) isn't going to change the fact that they fell away into lawlessness and won't be saved when Jesus comes back.




Because they were lawless. Read the passage.

No work of service will ever make up for or replace personal holiness and obedience to God. It seems there are those in the church that think it will. Jesus has warned us ahead of time so we won't be among them.

maybe you have comprehension problems, here it is again:

Matt 7:21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


Note: it is not " Not everyone who used to say Lord Lord....", It is "Not everyone who says Lord Lord..."
These are not people who fell away, how many people do you know that have fallen away but do miracles in the name of the Lord/ heal in the name of the Lord/ prophesy in the name of the Lord???

I have said before:

2 Thess 2:9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder,

Dan 8:25Through his craftand by his hand, he will cause deceit to prosper,and in his own mind he will make himself great. In a time of peace he will destroy many, and he will even stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be broken off, but not by human hands.

Rev 13:11Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I don't at all get the impression that only 12 spoke in tongues...I get the impression that they all did.
But I guess we can't know for sure.
Some don't ever speak in tongues so...perhaps not they all did. Don't know.

Shrume will have to eat his dinner and then tell us how he arrives at being sure it was only 12. I hope he doesn't have any dessert or we'll be waiting longer.

I'm not shrume but I see he hasn't answered yet so I thought I would jump in - so excuse me shrume!

Acts 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James, the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. . . . I do not believe that it was acceptable in those days for women to be in a man's living space so in v14 they had to be somewhere else praying because the women are with them - v14) These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. . . . v15 - 25 appointing a new apostle - v26) And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place . . . Who is the "they"? . . . the twelve apostles.

 

[Noose]

No The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are still working all of them. And God is still healing and God is still raising the dead. Tongues is just one gift that many think have gone away . calling something fake and thinking all is fake when comes to the gifts of the Holy Spirit is not truth but opinionated .

Haaa!!!
And this is where you are wrong- you need to learn a thing or two.

"God is still healing and God is still raising the dead." Very true- i myself have been healed from diabetes, thank God.

The difference between 1st century church/disciples/apostles and now is that they were appointed to do that; their mandate was to spread the gospel to the world and were specifically appointed to do signs and wonders to help in their quest to spread the gospel. So they had ministries. For example- healing the sick was a ministry coz people would witness or hear about it and believe in the gospel- therefore we say they have been ministered to. same thing with raising the dead.
Paul's handkerchief or even shadow would heal masses.

Whoever thinks they are in the ministry of healing today let them walk into the nearest cancer/AIDS ward and put their gifts to test and maybe minister to the many lost souls. It won't happen because they'd be thoroughly embarrassed, all we have is fake signs of people coaching others to fake some sickness and claim healing in some private gathering somewhere- let them try their gift in a busy hospital.

If anyone thinks they can pray for the dead to be raised, let them walk to the nearest mog and put that gift into practice. Non would dare do that for fear of embarrassment. All we hear today is someone prayed and a dead body came to life, no witnesses whatsoever. And for this one we know it is impossible because:

Rev 14:
13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

14I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of manbwith a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

17Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.”19The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.

The people that die in the Lord from THAT MOMENT ON..., the opposite is also true, the people that die not in Christ form that moment on. No second chances because it is HARVEST TIME. The angel swings his sharp sickle and the earth is harvested, nothing like going back.
We have heard people say they died and came back to life- these is just the other side of delusion, it is together with the tongues we hear today. People are deluded- There's no one who goes about raising the dead today (and you can't argue what we all know), not only that we don't see, it is totally against the scriptures.
With the same authority that i say no raising of dead, i also say the tongues are fake.

 

[shrume]

.................With the same authority that i say no raising of dead, i also say the tongues are fake.

You need a new authority. Seriously.