Why so much confusion about salvation?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
Oh, I have already. And you mocked me. Figure it out. Or don't. I don't play games with God's word.

It seems you are not interested in what the scriptures say, just degrading those who provide scriptures that clearly refute your "doctrine".


You have never pointed out anything thing at all in my posts that is false.


You just made the derogatory remark "Good luck with that", then out of the other side of your mouth, you have the nerve to claim that I mocked you. LOL!


Please point out where I mocked you in any of my posts?


I'm clearing up the confusion about salvation, with the truth of scripture.


Sorry, you don't like that.



JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
It is never us doing the good but the Holy Spirit living in us prompting us to not sin against God.

Amen.

The Holy Spirit is the power source that enables us to do what we could not, without Him.

Let's choose to co-operate with His leading.


JPT
 
C

claysmithr

Guest
But you did make the claim we don't need faith here.

We are not required to have faith. That verse does not state that either.
That we come into the faith of Jesus Christ and repent of our sins and are washed clean of them by his atoning sacrifice is all an act of faith. And God knows the genuineness of that because he calls us by name into his free gift of grace that is irrevocable. When we are in that covenant that is when we bear fruit. Because we have reconciled ourselves with the Kingdom that is within, as Jesus told us and where to find that. And we are then led by the spirit of all truth, God's Holy Spirit, to do His work, the work of God. We do not work for God because God and Jesus did that. We do the work of God on earth and that is what bears fruit. Because we are laying seeds down that are nourished through God's Holy Spirit to prosper and blossom into the good, Godly, works of God.

We do the work of God because we are saved eternally. Not to guarantee we are saved eternally.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
When we are Saved we are not on our own. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit.
This is God's part of the covenant...the initial work. But unless we go to Him for the full power of the cross and resurrection power....He will leave us as we are. God will not force the death of His Son on us. But if we will not take on the dying of Jesus neither will we walk as Jesus walked. The ball is in our court, so to speak, after we are regenerated.

Remember the 10 lepers who were healed. Only one returned to Jesus...and He said...I healed 10, where are the other 9?

Similarly we need to take our new hearts to God in order to complete His operation on us...putting on the new man...outfitting the full armour...putting on Christ.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
I don't study Calvinism or Armenianism, but I do what the scripture says.


You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4




JPT
I agree with you, but the very reason the 'not by works' thread was shut down is because of incendiary words like these. Please be kind when you exhort people to live the full gospel of Jesus Christ. I am trying to do better too, because I too can be filled with indignation and lash out. I learned a lesson from the last thread being shut down. Stay with us and don't be banned, we need you.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
opinions are not the same as reading and answering questions...if you are contentious and dishonest then move on. You are being guided by opinion not the words from God.

Read what the word actually says....stop with the unbelief and ranting please.
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and there is no truth in us

Practice what you preach my friend. You can not judge me for something when you are doing the very same thing yourself. it is called being a hypocrite

Also If the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sins...then how much sin is left????
Jesus died over 2000 years ago, All my sin was future tense when he died, He died for all my sin, the ones I commited before I was saved, the ones I have committed since, and the ones I will commit in the future.

I have yet to recieve my glorified body, I would be a FOOL to think I will be sinless until then.

If a person is FILLED with the Spirit...then how much sin is left?
If A person does not sin, then why does the HS have to chasten them because of the sin they do not commit?

How much sin does God allow in His presence?[/quote[

I am not in gods presence, if I was, I would die on the spot (as scripture says, no one can see God and live) yet when I am resurrected, i will see him as he is, Because THEN i will be sinless. and all my sins I committed while in this lifetime was paid by Christ. that is also why John said, if I do sin, I have an advocate, again if I am sinless as you preach, I would not need a advocate, or a mediator.

if you think you can be in Gods presence right now, you are mistaken, ad scripture says, you would die.

How many sins did Adam get away with?
No one will get away with any sin. Now your passing strawmen.

Is God more tolerant of sins these days?

He has never been tolerant of sin, another strawman


Have you EVER been cleaned by God?

Yep. When I heard the word of truth, the gospel of my salvation, and placed my faith in God, God saved me, Not because of righteousness which I had done, or was going to do. but by Gods mercy, by the washing and renewal of the HS.


Have you?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Maybe other informed sources besides fellow members here can reach the sincere of heart who seek truth. I hope so.

Shared here with permission. I bolded some text to make it a standout and capture the attention of those in need of answers and truth. It is also a crying shame if people who are so wrong about faith, salvation, learned those errant teachings from a denominational structured church.
But those pastors will answer for that. Lets hope God's truth reaches those who are on the wrong path now so that they can turn into the right way to go.

Question: "Where does faith come from?"

Answer: Faith is the avenue or the instrument God uses to bring salvation to His people. God gives faith because of His grace and mercy, because He loves us (Ephesians 4—5). Faith comes from God in the form of a gift (Ephesians 2:8).

A gift is not earned by some good deed or kind word, and it is not given because the giver expects a gift in return—under any of those conditions, a gift would not be a gift. The Bible emphasizes that faith is a gift because God deserves all of the glory for our salvation. If the receiver of faith could do anything whatsoever to deserve or earn the gift, that person would have every right to boast (Ephesians 2:9). But all such boasting is excluded (Romans 3:27). God wants Christians to understand they have done nothing to earn faith, it’s only because of what Christ did on the cross that God gives anyone faith (Ephesians 2:5, 16).

By knowing our saving faith comes from God alone, it should encourage Christians to “not think of yourself more highly than you ought,” but remember God decides the measure of faith each one receives (Romans 12:3). The apostle Paul gives an example of the godly humility believers should have when they contemplate their own faith: “Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 1:13–14). Paul understood faith in Christ was given to him because of God’s grace in spite of his own sinful life (1 Corinthians 4:7).

The Bible specifies the way, or the means, that God gives faith to people. “Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ” (Romans 10:17). It is the Word of God that produces faith. Someone could receive faith while hearing a sermon teaching the gospel, someone else by reading about Jesus in the Bible—any time the true gospel of Jesus is communicated, there is potential for faith. This is why it’s of paramount importance for believers everywhere to be obedient to the Great Commission (Matthew 28:16–20) and tell people what Christ has done for humanity. Faith is not the product of a preacher’s compelling presentation, his eloquence, or even his theological soundness—faith is given through the message about Jesus. This is the means God has chosen.

It is good for anyone who wants faith to ask for it. God freely gives what is good to all who ask (Luke 11:9–12), and it’s good to ask for an increase of faith (Luke 17:5; Mark 9:24). Jesus prayed for Peter’s faith to be strengthened (Luke 22:32). As with any gift from God, it is our responsibility to exercise the gift and not become complacent, lazy, or apathetic (Romans 12:1–2, 6–8). Christians can find comfort and peace of mind knowing their faith is from God, because He has said He will finish the good work He started (Philippians 1:6). God is the Author and the Perfecter of faith (Hebrews 12:2a; Romans 8:29–30).
faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Thats all I need to know.

faith is not blind, God helps us to understand and see, But even the world sees, and knows they are in sin, yet hide the truth of God in their hearts, so God gave them over to their passons, and made sure that no one has an excuse, because what can be known of God can be seen, even in nature.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I believe this is to be a bible discussion...not an opinion or unbelief forum... ;)
I guess the truth is just too much for some people.



JPT
another strawman,

why do people think saying self righteousn things such as this is going to change people views. If anything, it just proves to the world how arrogant the people who Claim to be gods people really are.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
It is funny that Christians would seek to contradict another by a dishonest use of a verse they know is wrong in the context being discussed. An example is above using John to say that Christians are sinners...

Doesn't the idea that all are sinners negated by his statement that a Christian cannot sin? So something is missing here...

So then rather than be contentious why not try discussing this problem to seek to resolve the issue...together.

But oneness is usually the last thing on the minds of many...so much for the witness of the church.

Just imagine someone coming to this thread looking for answers....rather than opinions.
Nothing is missing, but your misinformed interpretation of an english translation.

John said if we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves and there is no truth in us. This was in response to gnostic teachings who claimed to be without sin, His argument was if anyone comes and say this, their is no truth in them, they are not to be listened to.

We do not have to fear if we sin, because if (when) we do sin, we have an advocate whcih is Jesus.

Later he made statements of fact

Whoever sins (present active, habitual, lifestyle of sin) has never seen God or known him.

whoever is born of God can not live in an active lifestyle of sin, because he has been born of god. Also, elswhere in the bible, it shows why, we are chastened by God, WHo can witstand the chastening and continue to live in sin?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
if we know to do good and do not do it, we have sinned (how many of us do this once a day? Twice a day? One a week?

the first command, Love the lord your God with all your heart mind and soul, and the second is like it, Love your neighbor as yourself, who is your neighbor? Those who hate you, attack you dispose you, your enemy.

If we think we do not break these two commands daily we are deceived.

the problem with these types of discussion is people do not understand what constitutes sin, they think of the ten commands, and think, well I do not break them, so I am sinless.

That would be a faulty view,
Paul said we are to be blameless people. Blameless people are not sinless. they are just people who own up and confess their sins, and do not go around judging other people for theirs, while trying to hide or ignoring their own.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
We are also required to have faith which leads us to bearing fruit.

John 15:4-6
Agreed.

THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH IS A FUNDAMENTAL BIBLE PRINCIPLE.

This means that the justified ones are not only justified by grace through faith, but are also sanctified by living in faith. The faith which says that (1) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure (Phil 2:13) and also (2) work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12).

As indicated in John 15 the fruits produced by Christians originate with Christ, who said "without me ye can do nothing".

We accept these spiritual truths by faith. God works in us while we work the works of Christ (who went about doing good while sharing the Gospel). This is practical righteousness which is a part of sanctification.
 
C

CandieM

Guest
Where are the restriction on cosmetics in the Bible? I just did a Google search and found them being used. Same with nice blankets. Christianity doesn't adhere to the stoic rejection of comfortable living. Somewhere you came across something saying this erroneously.
What's ironic is wanting to be out of this world so badly because of what's happening to it, but also wanting to enjoy some of the physical pleasures of it. That's definitely ironic. It's also annoying.

 
Jan 27, 2015
2,690
367
83
I'm pretty sure all the good stuff has been said already, but I have one question.
....When someone comes along with another gospel, we should ask them a few questions, to which all the answers are "Yes" (according to Scripture):
....
8. Does salvation include the New Birth, which means that the individual is a new creature in Christ?

10. Are believers predestined and elected to be perfected and glorified?
....
Where is 9??
 
Jun 10, 2018
44
19
8
Why so much confusion for a very beautiful eternal and simple truth and message from God himself. Because Satan knows his time is nearly up. And we're told in the last days there will be his agents that are about delivering confusion in order to lead people astray.
2 Timothy 3.
 
Jun 10, 2018
44
19
8
Where are the restriction on cosmetics in the Bible? I just did a Google search and found them being used. Same with nice blankets. Christianity doesn't adhere to the stoic rejection of comfortable living. Somewhere you came across something saying this erroneously.
Try Topical Bible site if you're looking to use keywords to find bible subjects. It's typically very good.


1 Peter 3:3-4
Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious.
 
L

LaVieEnRose

Guest
how can it come after. since we can not have true faith until we repent, and we are not saved apart from true saving faith?
If thou shalt believe in thy heart and confess with thy mouth, thou shalt be saved. I don’t believe God expects us to do anything or forsake any sins before salvation. After salvation the Spirit is alive and brings conviction. I was saved at 12 in the seventh grade. Prior to being saved, my friends and I had a “dirty book club” and we shared erotic romance books. Before I was saved, I knew it was kind of sneaky, but I didn’t care. The stories were exciting to me. I didn’t repent of reading things I ought not to read until months after I was saved and told my friends I didn’t want to be in the dirty book club anymore.

I think it is a tertiary thing, and not really something to argue about, but that is my opinion.
 
Jun 10, 2018
44
19
8
I told you what you needed to understand. You misspoke when you claimed we are required to have faith.
You don't understand what faith is or from whence it comes.
I'm not playing games with the Word. Move on.
Amen! We are not required to have faith! Someone who claims we are required to have, is saying that in this case, we arrive by our own actions or decision alone to have faith. And then all things pertaining to salvation teaching arise from that. That's not true.
Or, Paul was lying.

Ephesians 2
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Wanted to add this too since Got Questions is in this thread. https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-faith.html
Where does faith come from? Faith is not something we conjure up on our own, nor is it something we are born with, nor is faith a result of diligence in study or pursuit of the spiritual. Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it clear that faith is a gift from God, not because we deserve it, have earned it, or are worthy to have it. It is not from ourselves; it is from God. It is not obtained by our power or our free will. Faith is simply given to us by God, along with His grace and mercy, according to His holy plan and purpose, and because of that, He gets all the glory.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
ya'll haven't figured it out yet??? well, it certainly took the both of us quite a long while!!!

acknowledging that you're doing something 'wrong', is key - and saying 'it' out loud,
is the real next STEP UP into our Savour's Reality Ladder...
 
L

LaVieEnRose

Guest
John and Jesus both began their ministries telling people to repent. Repentance comes before any cleansing.
I am probably going to get all kinds of flak- but I am a dispensationalist. In my opinion, Jesus and John’s ministries were for the Jews- not the Church Age. The Apostle Paul’s message is for the Age of Grace.