Is eternal torment in hell fire Biblical

[MarkWilliams]

Does the Bible give us a clear picture of hell.

There are so many conflicting views on what hell is and what's it's like and who goes there.

My brother recently committed suicide and I'm so afraid that he's in hell now. He professed to be a believer in Christ, but I don't even know if it's possible for a true believer to take their own life.

In any case, hell is the most horrible thing one can imagine. It's rare to hear a sermon on hell, so it's one of those subjects nobody likes to talk about.

I would really like to know the truth about hell, are there people in it now, if so are they going to continue to burn forever, do all of it's inhabitants suffer the same punishment or level of pain, do the dead go to heaven or hell as soon as they die or do they have to wait for judgement day and is it possible for anyone who has taken their own life to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I'm absolutely devastated by the loss of my brother whom I loved dearly and I'm struggling with the thought that he might be suffering as we speak. Is it worth praying for him now, or is it too late to pray for him.

 

[claysmithr]

Yes, there are some very clear scriptures about hell and the eternity of it.

[Matthew 25:41] [Matthew 25:46] [Ecclesiastes 3:14] [Revelation 20:10] [Revelation 21:8] [Revelation 14:10-11]

The bible is clear, there is no annihilation-ism because none mentioned in these verses cannot be forever and ever suffering recompense if they cease to exist at any time

[Isaiah 48:22]

-------------------------------------------------------------

That said, I'm sorry about your brother, and while suicide may indicate a certain lack of faith, I believe that God will judge rightly in his case. I don't think it would hurt to pray for your brother since God hasn't yet pronounced his full judgement.

Paul says to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord. Some people think we are simply Dead (non-conscious) until the Resurrection. Some people think we go to the current hell or heaven after death, then raised for judgement, then moved to the New Heaven/New Earth (after millennial reign) or cast into the Lake Of Fire accordingly. There may be different degrees of punishment I'm not sure on that, or how that would work.

There is the phrase born once die twice, born twice die once. Those who put their trust in Jesus for their salvation and their righteousness will be saved according to the following bible promises in Romans 10:9 and John 3:16 and John 6:37 and John 3:36 and Acts 16:28-31 and John 6:40.

Believers are told to cling to Jesus to dear life, work out their salvation with fear and trembling, and have faith in Jesus.

In the end, if we trust in the bible promises, we can know we are saved.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Does the Bible give us a clear picture of hell.

There are so many conflicting views on what hell is and what's it's like and who goes there.

My brother recently committed suicide and I'm so afraid that he's in hell now. He professed to be a believer in Christ, but I don't even know if it's possible for a true believer to take their own life.

In any case, hell is the most horrible thing one can imagine. It's rare to hear a sermon on hell, so it's one of those subjects nobody likes to talk about.

I would really like to know the truth about hell, are there people in it now, if so are they going to continue to burn forever, do all of it's inhabitants suffer the same punishment or level of pain, do the dead go to heaven or hell as soon as they die or do they have to wait for judgement day and is it possible for anyone who has taken their own life to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I'm absolutely devastated by the loss of my brother whom I loved dearly and I'm struggling with the thought that he might be suffering as we speak. Is it worth praying for him now, or is it too late to pray for him.

I've seen the many threads you've begun and the good questions you are asking.
You have just come from Catholicism, where you were told by men what to believe about everything. So you have this habit in you now of believing as you are told to believe instead of having God Himself teach you and answer your questions.

It's okay to get the differing views of others in here. But you have to consider those others views with the scripture that you read and compare those views to what you understand of what you read. And you have to also have patience when you ask God to explain it to you. That's not easy to remain patient when you're used to being told right away what "the answer" is by your church, when God might give you more gradual understanding on some things, giving you what you are able to bear and holding back other things until you are ready.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Does the Bible give us a clear picture of hell.

There are so many conflicting views on what hell is and what's it's like and who goes there.

My brother recently committed suicide and I'm so afraid that he's in hell now. He professed to be a believer in Christ, but I don't even know if it's possible for a true believer to take their own life.

In any case, hell is the most horrible thing one can imagine. It's rare to hear a sermon on hell, so it's one of those subjects nobody likes to talk about.

I would really like to know the truth about hell, are there people in it now, if so are they going to continue to burn forever, do all of it's inhabitants suffer the same punishment or level of pain, do the dead go to heaven or hell as soon as they die or do they have to wait for judgement day and is it possible for anyone who has taken their own life to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I'm absolutely devastated by the loss of my brother whom I loved dearly and I'm struggling with the thought that he might be suffering as we speak. Is it worth praying for him now, or is it too late to pray for him.

Hello again MarkWilliams,

First of all, my condolences regarding your brother. I just had a friend who committed suicide also about two weeks ago. We cannot say what happened to them, but only they themselves and God knows. Of course our hope is that they are in the presence of Christ.

Where the believer goes at the time of death

"Therefore we are always confident, although we know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord." - 2 Cor.5:6

To be away from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord

"For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. So what shall I choose? I do not know. I am torn between the two. I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better indeed. But it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. " - Philippians 1:22-24

So, according to the scriptures above, when the believer dies, their spirit/soul departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. For to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord.

For information regarding what happens to those not reconciled to God, we have to go to the event of "the rich man and Lazarus" as found in Luke 16:19-31. I'm sure that you have read the story. The rich man lived luxuriously every day and Lazarus, a poor beggar, was laid at the rich man's gate desiring to eat the crumbs that fell from his table. Lazarus dies and his spirit is taken to Abrahams side. The rich man also dies and finds himself in Sheol/Hades in torment and flame.

Now, there are many who will claim the rich man and Lazarus as being a parable. Those who do so are usually those who believe in soul-sleep and annihilation and that because the event of the rich man and Lazarus destroys both of those beliefs. Therefore, they have to make the event something other than literal to protect their belief. The problem with this is that parables use symbolism to represent what is literal. For example, the field = the world, wheat = the sons of the kingdom, the weeds = the sons of the evil one, harvest = the end of the age and the harvesters = the angels, etc. That said, the event of the rich man and Lazarus uses real names, father Abraham, Lazarus, Moses, the prophets and the real place of Hades. In addition, there is nothing in the context that would lead the reader to a symbolic interpretation, but an actual event that Jesus is revealing to those reading.

A couple of truths that can be gleaned from this event is that, the two men died, yet their spirits were conscious and aware after death and in Hades. Lazarus was in a place of comfort/paradise, while the rich man was in torment in flame. There was a great chasm fixed in between the place of comfort and the place of torment, but they were in the same location. In another scripture, Jesus tells us that Hades is under the earth.

"And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day."

Every person who dies without Christ goes down into Hades where they begin their punishment for sin against a Holy, Righteous and eternal God, because as king David recognized, all sin is against God. Hades is a temporary place of torment with all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history residing there. After the millennial kingdom, there will be a great white throne judgment where all of those spirits in Hades will be released and will receive a resurrected body and will stand before God at the great white throne to be judged for every sin they ever committed.

The Judgment of the Dead

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

We also have information regarding what happens to those who worship the beast, his image and receive his mark demonstrating that they are conscious and existing during their punishment:

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.”

In order for the smoke of their torment to rise up forever and ever and for them to have no rest day or night, they would have to be conscious and existing.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I've seen the many threads you've begun and the good questions you are asking.
You have just come from Catholicism, where you were told by men what to believe about everything. So you have this habit in you now of believing as you are told to believe instead of having God Himself teach you and answer your questions.

It's okay to get the differing views of others in here. But you have to consider those others views with the scripture that you read and compare those views to what you understand of what you read. And you have to also have patience when you ask God to explain it to you. That's not easy to remain patient when you're used to being told right away what "the answer" is by your church, when God might give you more gradual understanding on some things, giving you what you are able to bear and holding back other things until you are ready.

Stunnedbygrace, from what Mark as told us, it is not his church that he should be looking for the answer, for one, his pastor is teaching amillennialism. The best place to find the answer and not be deceived is the word of God, the source of all truth.

 

[FlyingDove]

My brother recently committed suicide and I'm so afraid that he's in hell now. He professed to be a believer in Christ, but I don't even know if it's possible for a true believer to take their own life.

I'm absolutely devastated by the loss of my brother whom I loved dearly and I'm struggling with the thought that he might be suffering as we speak.

Suicide is murder

Having said that, we must add that murder, suicide, or any other sin is not the deciding factor regarding salvation. A person's eternal security is determined by, and only by, their relationship to Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Christians are not immune to the despair that leads to suicide. The enemy is a great deceiver (John 8:44) who wants us to forget that victory is ours in Christ (John 16:33).

If a Christian falls and commits the sin of suicide, that sin would still be covered by Jesus' blood.

The Bible says that when we are in Christ, our salvation is guaranteed because His Spirit dwells in us (2 Corinthians 5:5). That same Spirit is put into the hearts of all those who believe in Jesus Christ (John 3:16; 1 John 5:13).

Romans 8:38-39 makes it clear; nothing can separate a Christian from Christ's love. If no "created thing" can separate us from the love of God, as the verse says, then no person (not even our own selves) can separate us from His love by any act that we do including suicide.

Moses murdered a soldier (we see him later on the Mt of Transfiguration) King David had Bathsheba's husband killed. Paul was the overseer of Stephen's & many other deaths. I'm pretty sure next to Jesus Himself. Paul is responsible for turning the most people to God.

Finally, there is only ONE unforgivable sin: Rejection of Gods grace found in the redemptive sin atoning sacrifice of Jesus the Christ = UNBELIEF

 

[Ahwatukee]

Suicide is murder

Having said that, we must add that murder, suicide, or any other sin is not the deciding factor regarding salvation. A person's eternal security is determined by, and only by, their relationship to Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Christians are not immune to the despair that leads to suicide. The enemy is a great deceiver (John 8:44) who wants us to forget that victory is ours in Christ (John 16:33).

If a Christian falls and commits the sin of suicide, that sin would still be covered by Jesus' blood.

The Bible says that when we are in Christ, our salvation is guaranteed because His Spirit dwells in us (2 Corinthians 5:5). That same Spirit is put into the hearts of all those who believe in Jesus Christ (John 3:16; 1 John 5:13).

Romans 8:38-39 makes it clear; nothing can separate a Christian from Christ's love. If no "created thing" can separate us from the love of God, as the verse says, then no person (not even our own selves) can separate us from His love by any act that we do including suicide.

Moses murdered a soldier (we see him later on the Mt of Transfiguration) King David had Bathsheba's husband killed. Paul was the overseer of Stephen's & many other deaths. I'm pretty sure next to Jesus Himself. Paul is responsible for turning the most people to God.

Finally, there is only ONE unforgivable sin: Rejection of Gods grace found in the redemptive sin atoning sacrifice of Jesus the Christ = UNBELIEF

Committing suicide could also demonstrate that a person was not truly in Christ. Also, faith from beginning to end is required for eternal security, not just a one-time confession. If no one could lose their salvation, then the letters to the churches would mean nothing. Yet, Jesus requires repentance.

I say that we cannot know what the result is for those who claim to believe but take their own life. I would not want to do it and find out if it the answer was unfavorable one.

 

[carl11]

Does the Bible give us a clear picture of hell.

There are so many conflicting views on what hell is and what's it's like and who goes there.

My brother recently committed suicide and I'm so afraid that he's in hell now. He professed to be a believer in Christ, but I don't even know if it's possible for a true believer to take their own life.

In any case, hell is the most horrible thing one can imagine. It's rare to hear a sermon on hell, so it's one of those subjects nobody likes to talk about.

I would really like to know the truth about hell, are there people in it now, if so are they going to continue to burn forever, do all of it's inhabitants suffer the same punishment or level of pain, do the dead go to heaven or hell as soon as they die or do they have to wait for judgement day and is it possible for anyone who has taken their own life to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I'm absolutely devastated by the loss of my brother whom I loved dearly and I'm struggling with the thought that he might be suffering as we speak. Is it worth praying for him now, or is it too late to pray for him.

Mark I already know what your church teaches and unfortunately they are wrong on their idea, but rather there is no place of suffering and torment despite what many say. Once the unsaved die that is it for them they will never receive life again unlike the true believers [Ps. 31:17, Eccl 9:5] The language that one reads about eternal torment and suffering, where the worm dies, eternal damnation...etc are all a reference to God's judgment of the unsaved it is forever. There is no need to worry about your brother being in a place of hell right now sure he is in hell but rather said it is the grave.

 

[GOP]

Does the Bible give us a clear picture of hell.

There are so many conflicting views on what hell is and what's it's like and who goes there.

My brother recently committed suicide and I'm so afraid that he's in hell now. He professed to be a believer in Christ, but I don't even know if it's possible for a true believer to take their own life.

In any case, hell is the most horrible thing one can imagine. It's rare to hear a sermon on hell, so it's one of those subjects nobody likes to talk about.

I would really like to know the truth about hell, are there people in it now, if so are they going to continue to burn forever, do all of it's inhabitants suffer the same punishment or level of pain, do the dead go to heaven or hell as soon as they die or do they have to wait for judgement day and is it possible for anyone who has taken their own life to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I'm absolutely devastated by the loss of my brother whom I loved dearly and I'm struggling with the thought that he might be suffering as we speak. Is it worth praying for him now, or is it too late to pray for him. [/QUOTE]

Sorry brother for the death of your brother but you can't do anything to help him now because he is death and there is no repentance in the grave. And his action of suicide shows unbelief and faithless.

The only person in the New Testament who committed suicide was Judas Iscariot who betrayed JESUS CHRIST. Now, let us listen carefully to what JESUS CHRIST our PRECIOUS LORD said about him, “The Son of Man goes as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born (Matthew 26:24.)”

The WORD of GOD our GRACIOUS FATHER, tell us clearly where murderers will go. For it is written, "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall by My son. But the cowards, faithless, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars--their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death (Revelation 21:8)."

Again it is written, "“Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, uncleanness, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19).

The Word of GOD says we must persevere to the end in order to be saved, Mark 13:13. Or Hebrews 3:14: “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.” That is a very serious warning



Yes, there are people now in hell. All those who do not believed in JESUS CHRIST the Son of GOD are in hell.

The Lake of Fire is the final place for eternal punishment and for now, there is no one there. For it is written, " Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15).”

 

[GOP]

Does the Bible give us a clear picture of hell.

There are so many conflicting views on what hell is and what's it's like and who goes there.

My brother recently committed suicide and I'm so afraid that he's in hell now. He professed to be a believer in Christ, but I don't even know if it's possible for a true believer to take their own life.

In any case, hell is the most horrible thing one can imagine. It's rare to hear a sermon on hell, so it's one of those subjects nobody likes to talk about.

I would really like to know the truth about hell, are there people in it now, if so are they going to continue to burn forever, do all of it's inhabitants suffer the same punishment or level of pain, do the dead go to heaven or hell as soon as they die or do they have to wait for judgement day and is it possible for anyone who has taken their own life to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I'm absolutely devastated by the loss of my brother whom I loved dearly and I'm struggling with the thought that he might be suffering as we speak. Is it worth praying for him now, or is it too late to pray for him.

Sorry brother for the death of your brother but you can't do anything to help him now because he is death and there is no repentance in the grave. And his action of suicide shows unbelief and faithless.

The only person in the New Testament who committed suicide was Judas Iscariot who betrayed JESUS CHRIST. Now, let us listen carefully to what JESUS CHRIST our PRECIOUS LORD said about him, “The Son of Man goes as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born (Matthew 26:24.)”

The WORD of GOD our GRACIOUS FATHER, tell us clearly where murderers will go. For it is written, "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall by My son. But the cowards, faithless, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars--their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death (Revelation 21:8)."

Again it is written, "“Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, uncleanness, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19).

The Word of GOD says we must persevere to the end in order to be saved, Mark 13:13. Or Hebrews 3:14: “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.” That is a very serious warning



Yes, there are people now in hell. All those who do not believed in JESUS CHRIST the Son of GOD are in hell.

The Lake of Fire is the final place for eternal punishment and for now, there is no one there. For it is written, " Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15).”

 

[Ahwatukee]

Mark I already know what your church teaches and unfortunately they are wrong on their idea, but rather there is no place of suffering and torment despite what many say. Once the unsaved die that is it for them they will never receive life again unlike the true believers [Ps. 31:17, Eccl 9:5] The language that one reads about eternal torment and suffering, where the worm dies, eternal damnation...etc are all a reference to God's judgment of the unsaved it is forever. There is no need to worry about your brother being in a place of hell right now sure he is in hell but rather said it is the grave.

Sorry, but the word of God is clear in that there is eternal life and eternal punishment, both being states of conscious existence. Eccl.9:5 doesn't mean what you and others think it does. The human being is made up of body, soul and spirit. It is the body that knows nothing, yet the spirit is conscious and aware. You are teaching annihilationism, which is false. We have plenty of scriptures demonstrating the conscious awareness of the spirit after the death of the body.

The words everlasting and eternal focus on the state of the individuals on-going existence in that state, whether dead or alive. Both life and death are states of conscious existence determined by the individuals state of being with God. Eternal life is conscious existence in the presence of God and the joy of his kingdom. Where death is eternal conscious existence in separation from God in eternal punishment. To be clear, those who die in their sins are not burned up in the lake of fire so that they no longer exist. At the great white throne judgment, the unrighteous dead will be released from Hades and will receive resurrected bodies fit for punishment in the lake of fire.

 

[shrume]

Sorry, but the word of God is clear in that there is eternal life and eternal punishment

The eternal punishment will be permanent death.

both being states of conscious existence.

That is not true.

Eccl.9:5 doesn't mean what you and others think it does. The human being is made up of body, soul and spirit. It is the body that knows nothing, yet the spirit is conscious and aware.

It does not say "where your body is going", it says where "you" are going. When people die, they do not separate into parts, with only the body dying but the soul/spirit continuing to live.

Ecc 9:
10) Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

You are teaching annihilationism, which is false.

That the wicked and unsaved will cease to exist is the truth.

We have plenty of scriptures demonstrating the conscious awareness of the spirit after the death of the body.

Your "go-to" scripture is Luke 16, which is a parable.

The words everlasting and eternal focus on the state of the individuals on-going existence in that state, whether dead or alive. Both life and death are states of conscious existence determined by the individuals state of being with God. Eternal life is conscious existence in the presence of God and the joy of his kingdom. Where death is eternal conscious existence in separation from God in eternal punishment.

That statement is utterly ridiculous, ATW. If someone is consciously existing, they are not dead.

To be clear, those who die in their sins are not burned up in the lake of fire so that they no longer exist.

That is EXACTLY what will happen to them. Even the Devil himself will eventually be burned up, and gone forever.

Eze 28:
18) Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19) All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

At the great white throne judgment, the unrighteous dead will be released from Hades and will receive resurrected bodies fit for punishment in the lake of fire.

No body will be able to withstand the lake of fire.

I know you won't be convinced, ATW, but hopefully others might.

 

[MarkWilliams]

Does the Bible give us a clear picture of hell.

There are so many conflicting views on what hell is and what's it's like and who goes there.

My brother recently committed suicide and I'm so afraid that he's in hell now. He professed to be a believer in Christ, but I don't even know if it's possible for a true believer to take their own life.

In any case, hell is the most horrible thing one can imagine. It's rare to hear a sermon on hell, so it's one of those subjects nobody likes to talk about.

I would really like to know the truth about hell, are there people in it now, if so are they going to continue to burn forever, do all of it's inhabitants suffer the same punishment or level of pain, do the dead go to heaven or hell as soon as they die or do they have to wait for judgement day and is it possible for anyone who has taken their own life to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I'm absolutely devastated by the loss of my brother whom I loved dearly and I'm struggling with the thought that he might be suffering as we speak. Is it worth praying for him now, or is it too late to pray for him.

Sorry brother for the death of your brother but you can't do anything to help him now because he is death and there is no repentance in the grave. And his action of suicide shows unbelief and faithless.

The only person in the New Testament who committed suicide was Judas Iscariot who betrayed JESUS CHRIST. Now, let us listen carefully to what JESUS CHRIST our PRECIOUS LORD said about him, “The Son of Man goes as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born (Matthew 26:24.)”

The WORD of GOD our GRACIOUS FATHER, tell us clearly where murderers will go. For it is written, "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall by My son. But the cowards, faithless, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars--their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death (Revelation 21:8)."

Again it is written, "“Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, uncleanness, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19).

The Word of GOD says we must persevere to the end in order to be saved, Mark 13:13. Or Hebrews 3:14: “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.” That is a very serious warning



Yes, there are people now in hell. All those who do not believed in JESUS CHRIST the Son of GOD are in hell.

The Lake of Fire is the final place for eternal punishment and for now, there is no one there. For it is written, " Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15).”[/QUOTE]
Hell is a very sobering subject, my brother was a really good person from a worldly view. He never had any enemies, he was very generous and everyone who knew him loved him. It's extremely difficult to imagine that a person like him would end up in hell, it would seem very unfair. I still respect Gods decision though, because I kn ow that God is perfect and everything He does is perfect and He has every right to do what He said He would in His Word.
Having said, I still struggle with the thought that my brother may be suffering in hell as we speak. It's a real living nightmare, I try to warn non believers about hell and they all hate me for it. Nobody want's to hear about it at all and I find that insane that people refuse to consider such an important issue.

 

[MarkWilliams]

Sorry, but the word of God is clear in that there is eternal life and eternal punishment, both being states of conscious existence. Eccl.9:5 doesn't mean what you and others think it does. The human being is made up of body, soul and spirit. It is the body that knows nothing, yet the spirit is conscious and aware. You are teaching annihilationism, which is false. We have plenty of scriptures demonstrating the conscious awareness of the spirit after the death of the body.

The words everlasting and eternal focus on the state of the individuals on-going existence in that state, whether dead or alive. Both life and death are states of conscious existence determined by the individuals state of being with God. Eternal life is conscious existence in the presence of God and the joy of his kingdom. Where death is eternal conscious existence in separation from God in eternal punishment. To be clear, those who die in their sins are not burned up in the lake of fire so that they no longer exist. At the great white throne judgment, the unrighteous dead will be released from Hades and will receive resurrected bodies fit for punishment in the lake of fire.

Your right, I can't escape from what the scriptures say. Even though I try hard to believe that my brother is in heaven because he professed faith in Christ. Every time I read what the Bible says about hell, it seems to say that he is actually in hell. Grieving the loss of such a beautiful person is extremely hard, but the thought that he may be in hell is infinitely worse than the grief itself.
The teaching on enduring until the end is the one that makes me think he is lost because the act of taking ones own life suggests that he lost his faith.
So it''s extremely tragic all round and I'm shocked at the attitude of his friends who all say if God exists than he must be in heaven, because if a person like him ends up in hell then God is evil. His best friend abused me and got very angry with me when I said I hope he's not in hell. Most of his friends were roman Catholics and my whole family is Roman Catholic, I was visiting my brother regularly and sharing the Godpel with him and he was responding positivly but I feel I might have reached him too late.
I feel if I had more time he wouldn't have done it, I invited him to come to my Church and he said he would but then it happened. I feel like the Devil snatched him away before he got the chance to learn the truth about who God is.

 

[longtrekker]

.
Hi Mark – real sorry about your brother. It would bother me too immensely if a family member were to do the same thing.

That being said and I’m open to correction but I’ve never seen ‘suicide = hell’ in the bible. At the same time life is a gift from God and not to be thrown away.

I remember someone here (who I consider quite wise) once saying on this matter that if it is not our fault because we die from some physical illness then how can we be accountable if by some form of mental illness in an awful moment of weakness we kill ourselves?

I think in many instances of suicide that is what it is – a form of mental illness. A moment often transient when a person simply is not in their right mind.

Salvation I believe occurs in that moment when one truly confesses Christ and His finished work on the cross. It is a transformation that cannot be reversed. Romans 8:39 We cannot rely on ourselves to ‘maintain’ salvation.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Your right, I can't escape from what the scriptures say. Even though I try hard to believe that my brother is in heaven because he professed faith in Christ. Every time I read what the Bible says about hell, it seems to say that he is actually in hell. Grieving the loss of such a beautiful person is extremely hard, but the thought that he may be in hell is infinitely worse than the grief itself.
The teaching on enduring until the end is the one that makes me think he is lost because the act of taking ones own life suggests that he lost his faith.
So it''s extremely tragic all round and I'm shocked at the attitude of his friends who all say if God exists than he must be in heaven, because if a person like him ends up in hell then God is evil. His best friend abused me and got very angry with me when I said I hope he's not in hell. Most of his friends were roman Catholics and my whole family is Roman Catholic, I was visiting my brother regularly and sharing the Godpel with him and he was responding positivly but I feel I might have reached him too late.
I feel if I had more time he wouldn't have done it, I invited him to come to my Church and he said he would but then it happened. I feel like the Devil snatched him away before he got the chance to learn the truth about who God is.

You have no idea what happens on another mans death bed. You have no idea what transpires between any man and God in his last seconds. I once watched a woman go to God very shortly before she died. She was actually actively dying when she met God and went to Him. Leave it to God. Trust God with everyone else just as you trust yourself to Him.

I had locutions one time in my life. I was very distraught over someone I knew who had not met God. I was completely undone with grief and fear for her soul. I was crying so hard I couldn't see the road as I drove. That's when I heard the words. They were in my left ear, a little from above it. I even felt humid breath on my ear. The words were from outside of my ear, not inside my head. These were the words: Do you trust Me? I have never again heard any words. They were the perfect 4 words and so no other words have ever been necessary.

 

[MarkWilliams]

.
Hi Mark – real sorry about your brother. It would bother me too immensely if a family member were to do the same thing.

That being said and I’m open to correction but I’ve never seen ‘suicide = hell’ in the bible. At the same time life is a gift from God and not to be thrown away.

I remember someone here (who I consider quite wise) once saying on this matter that if it is not our fault because we die from some physical illness then how can we be accountable if by some form of mental illness in an awful moment of weakness we kill ourselves?

I think in many instances of suicide that is what it is – a form of mental illness. A moment often transient when a person simply is not in their right mind.

Salvation I believe occurs in that moment when one truly confesses Christ and His finished work on the cross. It is a transformation that cannot be reversed. Romans 8:39 We cannot rely on ourselves to ‘maintain’ salvation.

Thanks for the encouragement, the only comfort I can get is the thought that he may have repented of the act of hanging himself while he was dying. Similarly to the thief on the cross when he repented and Jesus forgave him and accepted him.
My brother worked as a guard on the trains, he witnessed many people who jumped in front of the train to commit suicide. He told me that a beautiful 15 year old girl died in his arms from loss of blood while they waited for the paramedics.
Shortly after that another young teenage boy was also struck while he fell asleep on the edge of the platform while his legs hung over the edge, his train couldn't stop in time and struck him. My brother got out and tried and picked him up but he also died in his arms from loss of blood so he saw young people dying and that may have caused his depression.
I just regret not spending more time sharing the Gospel with him before he died.

 

[spartanrmd]

This is one of the most twisted dogma that the church has ever come up with ever since the time of Charlemagne. The concept of a fiery hell and eternal torment would have been foreign to 1st and 2nd century Christians . Throughout the old testament the word hell is written as Sheol or Hades and universally is translated as the hidden place or the grave, Jacob went to hell, Hezekia, David and others to include Jesus went to hell - that is to the grave. NOT a place of fiery torment.

Tartaroo is mentioned by Peter as the place where the fallen angels are currently restrained an actual physical place (maybe its actually detroit). and the other is Gehanna - named after the valley/ditch outside of the walls of Jerusalem where horrible things such as child sacrifices took place and fire burned day and night burning bodies of the dead animals and criminals.

The lake of fire will be real and those not found in the lambs book of life will be cast into it and that is the second death - they will die and not survive

For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life- death means death - our reward as Christians is eternal life

The logic of church people escapes me - how does a loving God whoes mercy endures forever - who IS love incarnate who forgives 7x77 and really forgives without remembering , who is the most just and merciful , how do these people square that up in there heads when they say a kind loving man from a country never having accepted Christ will burn in eternal torment forever??

These are the exactly what any thinking person would view as a cultic following that blindly follow dogma despite the common sense and teaching of the Holy Ghost

Anyone who follows a god that would do that is an idiot - even the Totenkapf SS had limits on torture of their victims.

Everything isnt as black and white as churches teach - what about different levels of punishment ??? how are ones who hold themselves out to be teachers going to be judged more harshly ?? how is Sodom going to be Judged less harshly. What does the bible refer to as less stripes being delivered for punishment (has to be an end if its less than something - simple math

The most dangerous time for a new Christian if when he gets around church people and loaded with dogma that has no grounding in biblical scripture or scripture that is shoehorned and twisted to fit dogma despite being against our understanding of God

I would say this concerning suicide - and i use this analogy a lot - when you accept Christ as your Savior you become a child of GOD . you dont become perfect and you never will on this side of the grass - But God as the most loving Father doesnt see your sins because they are washed away by the blood of Christ who made the PERFECT atonement for your sins

God has your picture up on his refrigerator door and looks at it every morning with his god coffee (probably folgers Columbian) and he sees it and smiles with the deepest love you can ever imagine. When he approaches the angels they are all going - oh boy here come the pictures again - and he pulls your picture out and shows it around just as lovingly as ANY parent would.

No mater what your child does have you EVER taken his picture off your fridge or out of your wallet? NO and God love of with the enormity of a love that we cant comprehend - DO YOU BELIEVE GOD PULLS YOURS OUT BECAUSE YOU WERE IN SO MUCH PAIN THAT YOU COULD TAKE IT ANYMORE?? not a chance

The God I know and Worship is LOVE in fact LOVE incarnate and certainly not some attorney

in Short Trust GOD and Listen to your heart - Trust that the Holy Spirit will lead you in the right direction - be wary of religion be wary of those who teach legalism and absolutism Go by what YOU read in the Bible.

and if any old lady tells you babies wind up in hell punch them in the nose

 

[Ahwatukee]

Your right, I can't escape from what the scriptures say. Even though I try hard to believe that my brother is in heaven because he professed faith in Christ. Every time I read what the Bible says about hell, it seems to say that he is actually in hell. Grieving the loss of such a beautiful person is extremely hard, but the thought that he may be in hell is infinitely worse than the grief itself.

I truly understand your concern and your grief. But I think that it is best left with God, since if his spirit is in the presence of the Lord, that would be the best place to be. However, if not, then there nothing that you or anyone can do. Therefore, it is better left to God.

 

[spartanrmd]

horrible spelling and punctuation but when i went back to edit it it said my 5 minutes were up