thank you so much bro...
but now that i came to the truth
im here to stay
but now that i came to the truth
im here to stay
HAHAHAHHA I can say that to my younger brother HAHAHAHHA-
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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
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Thanks be to God...MANY times I wanted to put a few knots on your head HAHAHAHHA I can say that to my younger brother HAHAHAHHA
HAHAHAHHA I can say that to my younger brother HAHAHAHHA
N
Thanks be to God...MANY times I wanted to put a few knots on your head HAHAHAHHA I can say that to my younger brother HAHAHAHHA
HAHAHAHHA I can say that to my younger brother HAHAHAHHA
hahahaha
the truth you shared with me hit harder than your fists ever could
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hahahaha
the truth you shared with me hit harder than your fists ever could
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To be honest Ben the issue you are trying to press concerning the wedding feast is a rejection of OSAS/ES as those who accepted the invitation were saved (as you said in a previous post)
Basically on this thread we do have ES is biblical and ES is not biblical.
But I do have to say given my research and understanding that the foolish ones were never saved to begin with.
If they were they would have had oil in the lamp.
To me they are the people who Jesus says to "I never knew you"
Just a thought about "I never knew you"
If a person who his genuinely saved but loses their salvation does Jesus say the same "I never knew you?
After all he did know them?
Being ready for Christ’s return ultimately involves one major thing which manifests itself in several areas of our lives. If we would be ready for Christ’s return, we must be born again through saving faith in Jesus Christ…His death, burial and literal resurrection from the dead.
Genuine faith will manifest in our lives, by the fruit we bear.
I know you will disagree with me as I disagree with you concerning this parable.
But as you say "Are we not entitled to believe what we believe?
Therefore by inference we have both researched and sought the Holy Spirit concerning our belief.
Truth is one day we will both find out.
I just want to ask you though.
On judgement day, I'm wrong, then what, if your wrong then what?
God bless
Bill
Basically on this thread we do have ES is biblical and ES is not biblical.
But I do have to say given my research and understanding that the foolish ones were never saved to begin with.
If they were they would have had oil in the lamp.
To me they are the people who Jesus says to "I never knew you"
Just a thought about "I never knew you"
If a person who his genuinely saved but loses their salvation does Jesus say the same "I never knew you?
After all he did know them?
Being ready for Christ’s return ultimately involves one major thing which manifests itself in several areas of our lives. If we would be ready for Christ’s return, we must be born again through saving faith in Jesus Christ…His death, burial and literal resurrection from the dead.
Genuine faith will manifest in our lives, by the fruit we bear.
I know you will disagree with me as I disagree with you concerning this parable.
But as you say "Are we not entitled to believe what we believe?
Therefore by inference we have both researched and sought the Holy Spirit concerning our belief.
Truth is one day we will both find out.
I just want to ask you though.
On judgement day, I'm wrong, then what, if your wrong then what?
God bless
Bill
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NoName said it correctly, "Judas" he was at the dinner table of Jesus just before He was arrested in the garden, So you believe that being at a wedding procession automatically means you are saved, I don't think so. The five without oil were most likely there for the food and drink. Who knew but Jesus that Judas was a fake disciple and would betray our Lord.
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N
you and me both.....
the torment that came with the knowledge of the law
when it was paired with self dependence and an honest view of my own actions......
was void of love compared to what i have now...
i may have known God as a just and perfect judge
but
i didnt KNOW God as a father
......
whats crazy is how often i hear those who push the false gospel God delivered me out of
try to act as if they DO MORE FOR GOD than those who know they are saved by grace through faith <- forever
i have been tempted many times to try and defend myself by my works
but...
nah
God knows what He uses me for
and I know none of that adds one bit to what He has done for me
the torment that came with the knowledge of the law
when it was paired with self dependence and an honest view of my own actions......
was void of love compared to what i have now...
i may have known God as a just and perfect judge
but
i didnt KNOW God as a father
......
whats crazy is how often i hear those who push the false gospel God delivered me out of
try to act as if they DO MORE FOR GOD than those who know they are saved by grace through faith <- forever
i have been tempted many times to try and defend myself by my works
but...
nah
God knows what He uses me for
and I know none of that adds one bit to what He has done for me
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Think about this wedding in our world today. You are attending a Christian wedding. do you assume all of the bridesmaids are saved, I certainly would not. There is much diversity at weddings everywhere all of the time.
I think your interpretation is attributing more untold information than the bible tells us, the bible is silent about this matter. And again you are bias because you wish for it to fit nicely into your NoOSAS/ES theory. The security of the believer is biblical and makes more sense. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption. Our God is an Omniscient God.
God bless
I think your interpretation is attributing more untold information than the bible tells us, the bible is silent about this matter. And again you are bias because you wish for it to fit nicely into your NoOSAS/ES theory. The security of the believer is biblical and makes more sense. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption. Our God is an Omniscient God.
God bless
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N
to those who believe you need to add your works to Jesus or "saved by grace through faith"....
do you think God is unaware of any works you will or will not do?
also...
you believe He saves someone... who will not work....
.....until?
they sin once? (jpt)
they dont do specific works (ben)
and....
how is someone saved from a just punishment from a just God... if they end up in the lake of fire anyways?
do you think God is unaware of any works you will or will not do?
also...
you believe He saves someone... who will not work....
.....until?
they sin once? (jpt)
they dont do specific works (ben)
and....
how is someone saved from a just punishment from a just God... if they end up in the lake of fire anyways?
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<><.🕇.><>
FIRST OF ALL, it is NOT BELIEVE that EQUALS OBEDIENCE.
It is LOVE that Equals OBEDIENCE, it says so, and your interpretations is TOTALLY WRONG.
1 John 5:2-3 (HCSB)
2 This is how we know that we love God’s children when we love God and obey His commands.
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,
John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.
John 14:21 (HCSB)
21 The one who has My commands and keeps them is the one who loves Me. And the one who loves Me will be loved by My Father. I also will love him and will reveal Myself to him.”
John 14:23-24 (HCSB)
23 Jesus answered, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24 The one who doesn’t love Me will not keep My words. The word that you hear is not Mine but is from the Father who sent Me.
OBEDIENCE is NEVER PART OF BELIEVE.
BELIEVE EQUALS SALVATION.
THAT FAITH SAVED you, the MOMENT it entered your HEART, and IT IS A WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, before you did any works.
What JAMES MEANS BY WHAT HE SAID is this: IF YOU DOUBT, that My SALVATION is REAL, all you have to do LOOK at the FRUIT that SALVATION produces, which is MY LOVE FOR THE LORD and MY LOVE FOR THE BRETHREN.
You are INTERPRETING JAMES ALL WRONG.
The LOVE that the HOLY SPIRIT POURED INTO OUR HEARTS, is GOD's LOVE, ROM 5:5. Do you not realize that is WHERE the Love in us spawns from? LOVE WILL PRODUCE JUST, LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOD MADE, AFTER IT'S OWN KIND. Hence the LOVE in us was PRODUCED after GOD LOVE was poured into our hearts.
OBEDIENCE is PART OF OUR LOVE, and not part of SALVATION. JAMES interpreted CORRECTLY will NOT contradict Eph. 5:8-9, NOR Titus 3:5-8.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.
THEREFORE proper interpretation of JAMES is as such:
James is NOT POINTING TO WHAT SAVED HIM. HE IS POINTING TO HIS BORN AGAIN HUMAN SPIRIT, FOCUSING ON HOW IT NOW HAS THE CHANGE IN CHARACTERISTICS, which is HOW YOU CAN TELL THAT HIS SALVATION WAS REAL, by HOW HE LOVES GOD AND HIS BRETHREN.
You want more proof? So be it:
1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋
—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
19 This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,
FIRST OF ALL, it is NOT BELIEVE that EQUALS OBEDIENCE.
It is LOVE that Equals OBEDIENCE, it says so, and your interpretations is TOTALLY WRONG.
1 John 5:2-3 (HCSB)
2 This is how we know that we love God’s children when we love God and obey His commands.
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,
John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.
John 14:21 (HCSB)
21 The one who has My commands and keeps them is the one who loves Me. And the one who loves Me will be loved by My Father. I also will love him and will reveal Myself to him.”
John 14:23-24 (HCSB)
23 Jesus answered, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24 The one who doesn’t love Me will not keep My words. The word that you hear is not Mine but is from the Father who sent Me.
OBEDIENCE is NEVER PART OF BELIEVE.
BELIEVE EQUALS SALVATION.
THAT FAITH SAVED you, the MOMENT it entered your HEART, and IT IS A WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, before you did any works.
What JAMES MEANS BY WHAT HE SAID is this: IF YOU DOUBT, that My SALVATION is REAL, all you have to do LOOK at the FRUIT that SALVATION produces, which is MY LOVE FOR THE LORD and MY LOVE FOR THE BRETHREN.
You are INTERPRETING JAMES ALL WRONG.
The LOVE that the HOLY SPIRIT POURED INTO OUR HEARTS, is GOD's LOVE, ROM 5:5. Do you not realize that is WHERE the Love in us spawns from? LOVE WILL PRODUCE JUST, LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOD MADE, AFTER IT'S OWN KIND. Hence the LOVE in us was PRODUCED after GOD LOVE was poured into our hearts.
OBEDIENCE is PART OF OUR LOVE, and not part of SALVATION. JAMES interpreted CORRECTLY will NOT contradict Eph. 5:8-9, NOR Titus 3:5-8.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.
THEREFORE proper interpretation of JAMES is as such:
James is NOT POINTING TO WHAT SAVED HIM. HE IS POINTING TO HIS BORN AGAIN HUMAN SPIRIT, FOCUSING ON HOW IT NOW HAS THE CHANGE IN CHARACTERISTICS, which is HOW YOU CAN TELL THAT HIS SALVATION WAS REAL, by HOW HE LOVES GOD AND HIS BRETHREN.
You want more proof? So be it:
1 John 3:14-19 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we have come to know love: He laid down His life for us. We should also lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋
—how can God’s love reside in him?
18 Little children, we must not love with word or speech, but with truth and action.
19 This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence,
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I just believe that it is unreasonable to expect that the spouse that was cheated on and lost his wife will not have hateful feelings that may take years to dissipate. Only at that point can he offer forgiveness. God understands the human condition full well and will take this into consideration should the man die before the hateful feelings are gone. By the way, I was in that position that the husband was in so I speak from experience. Also, it has been my observation that those in similar situations take years for the healing process to reach the point where the hate is gone and granting forgiveness is contemplated. Certainly you don't really believe that the healing process for those that have been cheated on in marriage is an instantaneous process do you?
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Your Concept is of "NO FREE PASS" is a FALSE DOCTRINE.
WHEN WAS YOU NAME PUT INTO THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE.
Revelation 17:8 (NRSV)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the inhabitants of the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will be amazed when they see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.
Therefore Our Names HAVE BEEN WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
Obedience is Part of the LOVE for Christ, that is a GIVEN. In other words, IT IS PART OF THE NEW NATURE OF OUR BORN AGAIN HUMAN SPIRIT. We are those that always strive to do what HE commands, including Confess Our Sins. IT IS NOT SOMETHING WE HAVE TO DO TO BE SAVED. It is something that we will want to because we LOVE CHRIST, and that is the TRUE NATURE of the NEW Human Born Again Spirit.
John 14:15 (NRSV)
15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
WHEN WAS YOU NAME PUT INTO THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE.
Revelation 17:8 (NRSV)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the inhabitants of the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will be amazed when they see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.
Therefore Our Names HAVE BEEN WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
Obedience is Part of the LOVE for Christ, that is a GIVEN. In other words, IT IS PART OF THE NEW NATURE OF OUR BORN AGAIN HUMAN SPIRIT. We are those that always strive to do what HE commands, including Confess Our Sins. IT IS NOT SOMETHING WE HAVE TO DO TO BE SAVED. It is something that we will want to because we LOVE CHRIST, and that is the TRUE NATURE of the NEW Human Born Again Spirit.
John 14:15 (NRSV)
15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
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That's all well and good, the point we disagree on is where the will to do good and obey comes from.
You're quoting all of these scriptures which remind us that no unrighteous person will be saved on the day of judgement. You make it sound like the good works come from your goodness and obedience, I would argue that any goodness or obedience we have is given to us as a gift.
I believe nobody is born with the ability to choose to do good and to obey, the Bible tells us that we were all born dead in sin and trespasses and we only respond in obedience when God grants us that ability.
We only start to obey and believe after Gods grants the gift of faith to us, He then continues to bless us with the gifts of the Holy Spirit which keeps us in obedience and faith. So none shall boast
You're quoting all of these scriptures which remind us that no unrighteous person will be saved on the day of judgement. You make it sound like the good works come from your goodness and obedience, I would argue that any goodness or obedience we have is given to us as a gift.
I believe nobody is born with the ability to choose to do good and to obey, the Bible tells us that we were all born dead in sin and trespasses and we only respond in obedience when God grants us that ability.
We only start to obey and believe after Gods grants the gift of faith to us, He then continues to bless us with the gifts of the Holy Spirit which keeps us in obedience and faith. So none shall boast
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So your doctrine teaches that a born again Christian, whose wife left him for another Church member, can live in unforgiveness and hate and still be saved?
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 1 John 5:2
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.” Matthew 18:32-35
- So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
God Himself will revoke the forgiveness of sins, that he gave us, and reinstate the penalty for our sins, if we don't forgive.
JPT
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Titus 1:15-16 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and UNFIT FOR DOING ANYTHING GOOD.
Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
New International Version 1984 1 Timothy 6:3-5 Love of Money If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is CONCEITED and UNDERSTANDS NOTHING. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD . WHAT DID WE GAIN BY CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. WOE TO THOSE WHO ARE WISE IN THEIR OWN EYES and CLEVER IN THEIR OWN SIGHT. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; FOR THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY AND SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL
1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, and THE TRITH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
2 John 1:6-11 And this is love: that WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. MANY DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is THE DECEIVER and THE ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. ANYONE WHO RUNS AHEAD (OSAS) and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
Matthew 19:16-17 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”
Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
New International Version 1984 1 Timothy 6:3-5 Love of Money If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is CONCEITED and UNDERSTANDS NOTHING. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD . WHAT DID WE GAIN BY CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. WOE TO THOSE WHO ARE WISE IN THEIR OWN EYES and CLEVER IN THEIR OWN SIGHT. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; FOR THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY AND SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL
1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, and THE TRITH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
2 John 1:6-11 And this is love: that WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. MANY DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is THE DECEIVER and THE ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. ANYONE WHO RUNS AHEAD (OSAS) and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
Matthew 19:16-17 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”