Speaking in tongues
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LOL God wants so much more for you.
If you were in the apostolic church 2 millennia ago. LOL
For the cause of Christ
Roger
oh I see...it was an allusion. right. got it. wink wink
seems more like self delusions in the rush to disprove any 21st C tongues
so...how 'bout those tongues! both a sign AND a gift
try and keep up
seems more like self delusions in the rush to disprove any 21st C tongues
so...how 'bout those tongues! both a sign AND a gift
try and keep up
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The Holy Spirit does not identify any gift of men as that seen as a sign gift rather then walking by faith the unseen spiritual. .
Christ said its an evil generation( non converted men) that seeks after a sign before they will beleive.
There can be signs that follow after belief like the temporal healing of men used to represent the unseen work of gospel .But it never about the temporal things of this world.... healing and then a man dies...…. is not the gospel
They were used for a short while in the reforming of the government during the time of the first century reformation .Just as during the reformation with Moses when God used signs against the rebels to move his people from bondage
But no such thing as a "sign gift" we walk by fauith (the unseen) . You will not find the two words "sign and gift" working together to form what some call "Charismaticism" it destroys the faith principle . Signs are for those who rebel. Prophecy the word of God for those who believe (no outward sign)
Christ said its an evil generation( non converted men) that seeks after a sign before they will beleive.
There can be signs that follow after belief like the temporal healing of men used to represent the unseen work of gospel .But it never about the temporal things of this world.... healing and then a man dies...…. is not the gospel
They were used for a short while in the reforming of the government during the time of the first century reformation .Just as during the reformation with Moses when God used signs against the rebels to move his people from bondage
But no such thing as a "sign gift" we walk by fauith (the unseen) . You will not find the two words "sign and gift" working together to form what some call "Charismaticism" it destroys the faith principle . Signs are for those who rebel. Prophecy the word of God for those who believe (no outward sign)
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To go above that which is written is to say "thus says the lord" when the Lord has not spoken .The last words of prophecy came over two thousand years ago . His interpretation (prophecy) . Why go above the which is written as in Paul words are not scripture.demonstrably invalid? The who Bible is the book of prophecy (God's interpretation )
Are you dividng Paul from the rest of those God moved to bring His interpretation .As always first things first
2 Peter 1:19-21 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Who was Paul moved by?
Are you dividng Paul from the rest of those God moved to bring His interpretation .As always first things first
2 Peter 1:19-21 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Who was Paul moved by?
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what?
LOL Say what?
You will not find the word sign as that which can be viewed (the temporal) and gift as that which some seek after before they will beleive. Like make a noise or fall backward.... slain in the spirit as some kind of evidence to confirm something good, it provides the opposite... that which apposes scripture/ prophecy. Sign are for those who believe not prophecy to include the manner of tongues .God brining his interpretation in all the languages in the world to include the Hebrew .
According to the law (not a oral tradition or philosophical opinion of men) Prophecy.... no outward sign is for those who do beleive without first seeing .
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corithians 14:21-22
There are some signs that follow used as a parable ….not to seek after before one believes . The last sign and wonder, with a wonder representing the things not seen (the faith principle) is the sign of Jonas the crucifixion of Christ .. That's it no more expected
Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
Christians walk by faith( the unseen). Paganism walk after the things seen they have "no source of faith" to hear God, not seen .
John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
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ok ... no sure that helps, but this is what I see
tongues...both a sign and a spiritual gift...see my post to notmebuthim
nobody asked for a sign...God says a sign to the unbeliever and a spiritual gift to the believer for edification (as per scripture) and for the body
it seems to me you are confusing asking for a sign as opposed to being given a sign
there is a difference and that is the sign regarding tongues...so...not a lack of faith or rebellion
That's called diversity in sounds- some alto others, bass and others have high pitch. There's no such thing as 'Finnish sounds for Farsi or Tagalog' especially when people are supposed to be busy worshiping. And you also want to talk about a heavenly/angelic language in the same breath as Farsi or Tagalog.
The 'modern tongues' proponents are divided into 3:
1. Those that claim that 'tongues' is a sign of indwelling of the Holy spirit. They also think that those that don't speak in tongues are not saved and have no right to be called sons of God.
I can't discuss this.
2. Those that claim that tongues are for prayers- private personal prayers.
There's a concept of praying silently within ones heart- can this apply to tongues? ohh, if it is silent, it's no longer tongues and if it's loud, it's no longer private unless you are in hall by yourself.
And how does one request something (pray) or purport to give thanks in a language they don't understand?
Matt 6: 6 But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door,and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
3. Those that claim that their church operates like the 1st century church.
They have the gifts distributed within the congregation; healing/tongues/interpretation of tongues/prophesy e.t.c.
Well, there's a big difference between the 1st century church and today's church. I would call the 1st century church a congregation of unbelievers and they had to be guided all along because these things were new. They were a congregation of converts from other belief systems that included paganism- so signs and wonders would have done wonders for them. That's why 'tongues' specifically was a sign to them.
Today's setting- people are being born in belief already. They are born in so called 'signs & wonders' already. So it becomes a norm for them (hardly a sign) that even children below the age of accountability 'speak in tongues' to the applause of the congregation. Tongues has become a sign for the believer in the church and not to the unbeliever.
And they say they have interpreters- how would you know what is being interpreted is what was actually said? If it is something that lines with what the scriptures say, it is absolutely pointless and a waste of time to teach it in a new 'heavenly/angelic' language only for it to be interpreted back to something that people understand.
If this is not mocking God, i don't what is.
1. Those that claim that 'tongues' is a sign of indwelling of the Holy spirit. They also think that those that don't speak in tongues are not saved and have no right to be called sons of God.
I can't discuss this.
2. Those that claim that tongues are for prayers- private personal prayers.
There's a concept of praying silently within ones heart- can this apply to tongues? ohh, if it is silent, it's no longer tongues and if it's loud, it's no longer private unless you are in hall by yourself.
And how does one request something (pray) or purport to give thanks in a language they don't understand?
Matt 6: 6 But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door,and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
3. Those that claim that their church operates like the 1st century church.
They have the gifts distributed within the congregation; healing/tongues/interpretation of tongues/prophesy e.t.c.
Well, there's a big difference between the 1st century church and today's church. I would call the 1st century church a congregation of unbelievers and they had to be guided all along because these things were new. They were a congregation of converts from other belief systems that included paganism- so signs and wonders would have done wonders for them. That's why 'tongues' specifically was a sign to them.
Today's setting- people are being born in belief already. They are born in so called 'signs & wonders' already. So it becomes a norm for them (hardly a sign) that even children below the age of accountability 'speak in tongues' to the applause of the congregation. Tongues has become a sign for the believer in the church and not to the unbeliever.
And they say they have interpreters- how would you know what is being interpreted is what was actually said? If it is something that lines with what the scriptures say, it is absolutely pointless and a waste of time to teach it in a new 'heavenly/angelic' language only for it to be interpreted back to something that people understand.
If this is not mocking God, i don't what is.
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