Are Roman Catholics Christians

[Jackson123]

Who else would they be?

My brother, bible not say who are the 24 elder, why you sure Mary is one of them.

Don't you believe Mary is queen of heaven?

Why you believe the 24 elder know and memorized billin of pray, are they God?

When I was young I was work as delivery man, I deliver a lot of mail every day, but I don't know what is in the envelope

But you believe the 24 elder know and memorized billion of pray.

Can you show me the verse that say they are Omni present and able to hear billions pray?

Do you believe only 24 saint able to hear billion pray?

To my knowledge catholic believe more than 100 decease saint, and you can pray to million deceased saint thought may not nominate by Vatican, than why only 24 in that verse?

 

[notuptome]

My disdain for OSAS is based on 2 Pet 2:20-22. Perhaps you could go through word by word and explain it to me.

Not if you are not a Christian. 2 Peter is dealing with false professors. If you place your proof text back into context you will lose your pretext. 2 Peter 2:20-22 is not speaking of losing salvation it is revealing false professors who imitate Christians but do not know Christ whom to know aright is life eternal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Catholics use the same texts as protestants, with the exception of a few books. (Catholic just means universal, or common)

The right question to ask would be:

Out of all the different doctrines, interpretations and denominations, which one is the correct one?

It doesn't just stop at Catholicism vs Protestantism...... I mean, if we went by majority rules, then Catholicism is the "right way".

I wonder why God would allow so much confusion and division..... I no longer believe Christianity to be as infallible as I was taught.

Yes I am a heathen now, not because I love sin, or my reprobate mind, but because of the vast evidence in division and uncerntainty when it comes to truth in doctrine.

Why would God allow such division, even amongst its "true" followers?

Once you stop assuming things, and you start looking into history, motives, trends, and actual events that took place you realize that the bible was actually decided on upon men. Men decided what the canon should include. Not God, but man.


All Martin Luther did was call out the church on their shameless schemes. I don't think much has changed since.....

You are well described in Romans 1:16-23.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Metternich]

Catholics use the same texts as protestants, with the exception of a few books. (Catholic just means universal, or common)

The right question to ask would be:

Out of all the different doctrines, interpretations and denominations, which one is the correct one?

It doesn't just stop at Catholicism vs Protestantism...... I mean, if we went by majority rules, then Catholicism is the "right way".

I wonder why God would allow so much confusion and division..... I no longer believe Christianity to be as infallible as I was taught.

Yes I am a heathen now, not because I love sin, or my reprobate mind, but because of the vast evidence in division and uncerntainty when it comes to truth in doctrine.

Why would God allow such division, even amongst its "true" followers?

Once you stop assuming things, and you start looking into history, motives, trends, and actual events that took place you realize that the bible was actually decided on upon men. Men decided what the canon should include. Not God, but man.


All Martin Luther did was call out the church on their shameless schemes. I don't think much has changed since.....

I understand your confusion. I would ask you to give it one more try by reading "Biblical Defense of Catholicism" by Dave Armstrong. He is a convert to Catholicism. You can get it at Amazon.

 

[Metternich]

Not if you are not a Christian. 2 Peter is dealing with false professors. If you place your proof text back into context you will lose your pretext. 2 Peter 2:20-22 is not speaking of losing salvation it is revealing false professors who imitate Christians but do not know Christ whom to know aright is life eternal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

But it says they escaped (past tense) the defilements of the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ. How can you escape sin without true faith in Christ?

 

[notuptome]

But it says they escaped (past tense) the defilements of the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ. How can you escape sin without true faith in Christ?

Verse 19 While they promise them liberty they themselves are servants of corruption for of whom a man is overcome of the same is he brought in bondage.

False ascetism just like Rome teaches.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Metternich]

Verse 19 While they promise them liberty they themselves are servants of corruption for of whom a man is overcome of the same is he brought in bondage.

False ascetism just like Rome teaches.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I think he talking about them after they have again been enslaved by sin.

 

[Seedz]

You are well described in Romans 1:16-23.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I know, how convenient.

There are also many other kinds of people described in the word:

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

My only interest is to find objective truth in our spiritual life.

How is that found in today's Christianity? Depending on who you ask, there are different ways to keep/earn salvation. (some even say everyone is saved)

Depending who you ask, you are to live a sinless life. (or not, depending on your interpretation of Romans 7)

Also, some of us may be doomed in regards to having the opportunity to be saved at all according to how you interpret Romans 9, or whether you are a Calvinist or not.

Don't you see there is no consistency in doctrine?

 

[Seedz]

Not if you are not a Christian. 2 Peter is dealing with false professors. If you place your proof text back into context you will lose your pretext. 2 Peter 2:20-22 is not speaking of losing salvation it is revealing false professors who imitate Christians but do not know Christ whom to know aright is life eternal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Are you absolutely and objectively correct in these assertions? If so, how can you back up these claims?

Does it involve more than just what is present in the text?

Often times when I read the word I will interpret things a certain way. Some views I find corroborate my interpretations, some don't.

There's a flavor for everybody.

 

[Seedz]

Verse 19 While they promise them liberty they themselves are servants of corruption for of whom a man is overcome of the same is he brought in bondage.

False ascetism just like Rome teaches.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Trust me when I tell you that I want to belive and strengthen my faith, but the more I study the weaker my faith becomes.

Am I foolish in seeing that there is no objectivity in doctrine?

In order for me to have faith, I must first know what it is I have to have faith in. The problem is that is unclear to me so far.

 

[Seedz]

I understand your confusion. I would ask you to give it one more try by reading "Biblical Defense of Catholicism" by Dave Armstrong. He is a convert to Catholicism. You can get it at Amazon.

By their fruits they shall be known right?

 

[notuptome]

Trust me when I tell you that I want to belive and strengthen my faith, but the more I study the weaker my faith becomes.

Am I foolish in seeing that there is no objectivity in doctrine?

In order for me to have faith, I must first know what it is I have to have faith in. The problem is that is unclear to me so far.

We are to have faith in Christ. Christ died for your sins. Christ was buried for your sins. Christ rose again from the tomb to secure the promise of eternal life for you.

The object of faith is Christ. The object of Gods mercy is you.

There is no hope in man doing it his way. We must surrender ourselves to Gods way or perish. Pride is not good and is very difficult to overcome. It is easy to be religious but difficult to be humble and accept ones sinfulness before God.

Prayer before study leads to more profitable study in Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Seedz]

We are to have faith in Christ. Christ died for your sins. Christ was buried for your sins. Christ rose again from the tomb to secure the promise of eternal life for you.

The object of faith is Christ. The object of Gods mercy is you.

There is no hope in man doing it his way. We must surrender ourselves to Gods way or perish. Pride is not good and is very difficult to overcome. It is easy to be religious but difficult to be humble and accept ones sinfulness before God.

Prayer before study leads to more profitable study in Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Are you saying that all of the other details in the Pauline Epistles, Gospels, words of Christ himself and the OT are not relevant for salvation or living your life in a pleasurable way for God?

Why would the canon host 783,137 words within its pages? Why wasn't the message short and sweet?

I think the consequence of such a large book open for interpretation is evident in the "church" today.

I just want truth, not someones opinion on the matter.

The reason I mention this is because when I try to explain to someone my interpretation of a passage at times they will tell me it is wrong. This means that I am not independent when it comes to understanding what the word says, but somehow a pastor, or leader/elder knows best. Is God not a personable God? Did God not give me a brain to think and reason?


This is just Christianity we are speaking of, so many other cultures will share their religious truths with you, utterly convinced that they are carriers of absolute truth.

 

[notuptome]

Are you saying that all of the other details in the Pauline Epistles, Gospels, words of Christ himself and the OT are not relevant for salvation or living your life in a pleasurable way for God?

Why would the canon host 783,137 words within its pages? Why wasn't the message short and sweet?

I think the consequence of such a large book open for interpretation is evident in the "church" today.

I just want truth, not someones opinion on the matter.

The reason I mention this is because when I try to explain to someone my interpretation of a passage at times they will tell me it is wrong. This means that I am not independent when it comes to understanding what the word says, but somehow a pastor, or leader/elder knows best. Is God not a personable God? Did God not give me a brain to think and reason?


This is just Christianity we are speaking of, so many other cultures will share their religious truths with you, utterly convinced that they are carriers of absolute truth.

The gospel is simple so much so that even a young child can comprehend it. Men are always going to complicate the gospel and endeavor to bring others back again into bondage. Most of the OT is the history of Israel and how God has directed their path. The NT is a testimony of Christ who died to atone for our sins.

In Christ is great liberty to live unto God. We are able to partake of peace that passes understanding. Every word of God is pure. all 783,137 words are their for us to read and be blessed in our knowledge of God.

As children we must learn and grow. There is nothing wrong with the older teaching and helping the younger.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Metternich]

By their fruits they shall be known right?

Not sure what you mean.

 

[Seedz]

The gospel is simple so much so that even a young child can comprehend it. Men are always going to complicate the gospel and endeavor to bring others back again into bondage. Most of the OT is the history of Israel and how God has directed their path. The NT is a testimony of Christ who died to atone for our sins.

In Christ is great liberty to live unto God. We are able to partake of peace that passes understanding. Every word of God is pure. all 783,137 words are their for us to read and be blessed in our knowledge of God.

As children we must learn and grow. There is nothing wrong with the older teaching and helping the younger.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Ok you don't seem to be answering my inquiry in a direct manner and at best I've received a partial answer.

Let me try to rephrase it in a more concise way...

How do I know I am a true Christian, and that I will make it to heaven?

Think about this carefully, I'm curious about your answer.

 

[Seedz]

Not sure what you mean.

Well, I wasn't trying to be mean, but the Catholic Church hasn't had the best reputation for being moral and pure.... no church for that matter...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You say Mary is sinless, why she die?

The wage of sin is death

And also she called God her savior. A sinless woman wouldn't need a savior. Luke 1:47

 

[Metternich]

And also she called God her savior. A sinless woman wouldn't need a savior. Luke 1:47

If a man falls into a pit and another man comes along and pulls him out he is the savior of the man. If a woman comes along and he guides her around the pit he is her savior also. The same with Mary. God looked forward to the merits of Christ and applied them to Mary at her conception thus preserving her from original sin. Thus she was not subject to concupiscence just like Adam and Eve were before the fall. This was all God's grace acting as her savior.

 

[Danny1988]

Catholics use the same texts as protestants, with the exception of a few books. (Catholic just means universal, or common)

The right question to ask would be:

Out of all the different doctrines, interpretations and denominations, which one is the correct one?

It doesn't just stop at Catholicism vs Protestantism...... I mean, if we went by majority rules, then Catholicism is the "right way".

I wonder why God would allow so much confusion and division..... I no longer believe Christianity to be as infallible as I was taught.

Yes I am a heathen now, not because I love sin, or my reprobate mind, but because of the vast evidence in division and uncerntainty when it comes to truth in doctrine.

Why would God allow such division, even amongst its "true" followers?

Once you stop assuming things, and you start looking into history, motives, trends, and actual events that took place you realize that the bible was actually decided on upon men. Men decided what the canon should include. Not God, but man.


All Martin Luther did was call out the church on their shameless schemes. I don't think much has changed since.....

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Yes it's true, there is a lot of disagreement over the various ways people interpret the Holy scriptures. That doesn't mean there's something wrong with the Bible, it means there's something wrong with those who try to change it's meaning. That's why Jesus said, let every man be a liar and let God be true.

A person needs to pray that the Holy Spirit would reveal the truth to them when they study the Bible. God deliberately caused men to write the Bible in such a way that it would only be understood by the true believers, for the word of God is foolishness to those who are perishing.

We need to pray for discernment, so we can know the context that God wants us to understand certain Scriptures. Sometimes the meaning is to be taken in the literal sense and other times the Bible uses symbols and parables, so we need to pray for wisdom before we read.

Don't give up on the Lord, just because sinful men have misunderstood and misused the Bible for their own selfish desires.