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I have already learned the fear of the Lord Jesus and I have even been through His judgment and I serve Him and I read the bible everyday and even listen to it on audio while I am working. If I am judged of men, it is nothing, but I stand before the judgment seat of Christ Jesus. I know Jesus, and He knows me and He speaks to me and shows me things like the ocean of blood I saw on the moon Jan. 14, 2006, as well as the other signs I have mentioned. I have given the warning, that was my part. I won't say wicked an cruel things to you because that is not Christ like. I really love Jesus with all of my heart, the real Jesus who died on the cross and rose from the dead.
i will admit some of my post was sarcastic. it's very frustrating to see people flock mindlessly to this stuff.
what you "think" or "feel" or "believe", or the prophet you promote so zealously says has to be measured by the Word.
i don't even necessarily doubt you may be seeing things you believe are signs for you personally. unfortunately i think you are deceived, since what you believe you are being shown does not line up with what is already WRITTEN. that makes everything you believe suspect: don't you EVER question what you believe?
i'm just stumped by this insistence that we have to hurry up and "get ready". should we start leaping into the air in case we somehow get left behind? sigh. i wish you would just take some time to CONSIDER the possibility that the very thing you are teaching was already corrected BY PAUL. waaaaaaaaaaay back then. why do you want to rob JESUS of HIS GLORIOUS RETURN? why do you INSIST on preaching another Jesus? the one you are preaching sneaks down at any moment and millions of people disappear *PRESTO*.
will your clothes being lying in a pile on the supermarket floor? the car you're driving veers off the road with no driver? really: wouldn't that be WRITTEN? that would be the biggest news of all....yet it's just not in Jesus' words. please: stop it. you're doing what Paul warned against, you're troubling people and upsetting them into thinking that there's something they must DO or they risk being left behind. not only is it insulting to the Glorious Return of Jesus in Blazing Glory (WITH THOSE WHO HAVE ALREADY DIED - 1 Thessalonians), it's just silly.
God declares He will choose the delusions of those choose men or false teachings over what is ALREADY WRITTEN. what concerns me so much, the reason i keep posting 2 thessalonians 2 is that it's clear that by the time God sends the strong delusion, it's over for them. and we're told why: they received NOT the LOVE of the Truth.
given the fact the bible clearly lays out the sequence of events, and that a secret rapture is not in there, where do you suppose the teaching comes from? and what would be the consequence of it? if a "Jesus", or "angels" suddenly showed up saying, "LET'S GO": would you go? if they say "He is there!" would you go?
don't you understand what the saints are supposed to be doing IN THE TRIBULATION? TESTIFYING!
looking at what is taking place is CHARISMANIA today (choose from among countless of the "modern-day prophets" and miracle workers, self-appointed apostles): what is the most terrifying is not the leader, it's the PEOPLE!. if you haven't seen this video, please do.
though this is a tired old horse, and your prophet may not do the same things, the spirit is the same i'm afraid. we have to have DISCERNMENT and investigate.
from YouTube
Todd Bentley's Violent "Ministry" (WOTMR) [1of2]
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though Bentley is clearly crazy, he was legitimized and "annointed" by a group called
the International Coalition of Apostles
from apostlesnet . net
here's their statement of faith:
Since it is essential that the members of ICA be cemented together by a common set of fundamental beliefs, the following doctrinal statement defines the primary biblical and theological parameters of the organization:
The International Coalition of Apostles (ICA) positions itself in the evangelical theological stream of Protestant Christianity. It adheres to the Apostles’ Creed and to the core doctrines of the Protestant Reformation, namely the ultimate and essential authority of the Scriptures for Christian faith and practice, justification by faith, and the priesthood of all believers. It believes that God is Father, Son,and Holy Spirit, that Jesus was born of a virgin, that He was physically raised from the dead, and that an individual’s personal relationship to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior determines that individual’s eternal destiny in heaven or hell. The fulfillment of Jesus’ great commission to make disciples of all nations is central to the focus of ICA.
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putting aside for a moment that Todd Bentley is one of theirs, their statement of "faith" sounds fair, right?
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let's look a little closer:
The Origin of ICA
The International Coalition of Apostles (ICA) was conceived by a group of apostles who gathered informally in Singapore in 1999. John Kelly agreed to establish an office in Dallas, Texas, to organize a council and to begin to invite apostles to join ICA. He then asked C. Peter Wagner to assume overall leadership of ICA as Presiding Apostle. In early 2001, the office was moved to Colorado Springs, Colorado, under Wagner’s supervision. John Kelly continues to serve ICA as Ambassadorial Apostle, working out of his Dallas office.
Purpose of ICA
In compliance with scriptures such as Ephesians 4:11, Ephesians 2:20, and 1 Corinthians 12:28, the office of apostle began to be established and recognized by an increasingly wider spectrum of the body of Christ during the 1990s. By the year 2000 the office of apostle had begun to be affirmed and set in place throughout numerous churches of the New Apostolic Reformation. One of the symbolic events marking this transition was the first annual meeting of ICA held in Dallas, Texas, December 6-8, 2000.
Given the worldwide multiplication of individuals recognized by other Christian leaders as apostles, a strong desire has been expressed by many of them to be able to relate, in some structured way, to peer-level apostles in their own nations and internationally. Since autonomy is a high value for members of differing apostolic networks, the apostolic leaders of these networks, who technically are “vertical” apostles, had little access to mechanisms designed to fulfill that lingering “horizontal” desire to meet with their peers in anything other than a casual way.
The International Coalition of Apostles was organized as one attempt to meet this need. It is not an exclusive organization since other similar groups are forming in different parts of the world, much to the delight of ICA, as a response to what the Spirit currently seems to be saying to the churches of the 21st Century.
The fundamental vision of ICA is to speed the completion of Jesus’ great commission to preach the gospel to every creature and to make disciples of all nations. World evangelization is the pulse beat of apostles wherever they might be found. Nothing that we do in ICA should eclipse or even dull this essential vision. The accelerated advance of the Kingdom of God is our highest priority. The primary purpose of ICA is to:
Structure meaningful opportunities for peer-level apostles, representing both the nuclear church and the extended church (workplace), to meet each other, build relationships, and interact with each other on regional, national, and international levels.
Develop communication vehicles to facilitate interaction among apostles, apostolic networks, and apostolic ministries.
Catalyze and stimulate the development of creative strategies for combining apostolic efforts on the widest basis possible in order to fulfill Jesus’ great commission in our generation.
Attain and maintain the highest possible levels of integrity of personal character and operational methodology among member apostles.
Membership
Membership in ICA is restricted to individuals who have been recognized by a significant segment of the church, including peer-level apostles, as having the gift and office of apostle and who have been ministering through this gift for a period of time. It is not intended to be a training ground for would-be or “emerging” apostles, but rather it should be seen as a professional society in which confirmed apostles are able to relate to and connect with each other.
What is an apostle? Here is the ICA definition of apostle:
An apostle is a Christian leader gifted, taught, commissioned, and sent by God with the authority to establish the foundational government of the church within an assigned sphere of ministry by hearing what the Spirit is saying to the churches and by setting things in order accordingly for the growth and maturity of the church.
Since apostles minister in several different ways, ICA is open to “vertical apostles” (including ecclesiastical, functional, congregational, and team-member vertical apostles), to “horizontal apostles” (including convening, ambassadorial, mobilizing, and territorial horizontal apostles), and to different kinds of “workplace apostles.”
Invitation Only
Membership is attained only by official invitation from the Presiding Apostle. Invitation to ICA requires nomination made and seconded by any two current, active ICA members. Nominations are then processed through the Colorado Springs ICA office, and decisions are made on a case-by-case basis as to whether official invitations will be extended. Under extenuating circumstances where two nominators are not available, an explanation as to why there is no second is weighed in the decision-making process.
An application process is required if the invitation is accepted by the individual nominee.
This involves submitting a written application form as well as the payment of membership dues. The applicant is required to provide contact information for a person who knows the ministry of, and to whom the applicant is accountable. We will secure that person’s consent during the application approval process. Additionally, US and Canadian members are expected to contribute US$650 per year for annual dues, and International/First Nations members to contribute US$350 per year for membership. If there is any doubt because of the area of ministry, the individual apostle decides whether he or she is US or Non-US/Native American status. The dues amount now includes the registration of the member (only) for the annual meeting in December.
Ordination, Commissioning, Covering, and Accountability
When an individual is accepted as a member, a membership certificate suitable for framing is sent by the ICA office. An annual membership card is also provided, confirming that the member is active. It must be understood that ICA membership does not confer ordination or commissioning on a given apostle. ICA does not “make” an individual an apostle. Only those who have previously been recognized as having the gift and office of apostle are accepted as members, and this recognition comes through and is maintained by the particular ecclesiastical network or apostolic ministry conferring the ordination or commissioning.
Because ICA is a horizontal apostolic network, as over against a vertical network, ICA does not provide “apostolic covering” or ‘spiritual covering” for its members. Although ICA is not a primary accountability structure, membership in ICA does imply a secondary apostolic accountability.
Every ICA member is accountable, in the broad sense of the word, to all other members. When reproach comes upon one, potentially that reproach can come upon all.
Annual Meetings and Summits
The major structures for facilitating the interaction of apostles with one another are the ICA annual meeting and occasional apostolic summits held in different locations.
The annual meeting is held in Dallas, Texas, on the first Wednesday, Thursday, and until noon on the first Friday of the December each year. Since ICA is a professional society, only members are invited to speak or participate on panels in the annual meeting. Speakers come at their own expense and are not paid an honorarium for their participation as they would be in a conference or a seminar. All members and spouses pay a registration fee to cover the costs of the annual meeting.
At the annual meeting, each member is entitled to bring as an observer one non-member plus their spouse. Observers and their spouses are expected to pay the normal registration fee for the meeting.
In each annual meeting, the Presiding Apostle presents an annual report which includes a financial report and a current list of ICA members.
The Ambassadorial Apostle and the Apostle-at-Large present field reports. Sessions are held in the mornings and afternoons only, leaving evenings free for personal interaction.
The Ambassadorial Apostle, John Kelly, convenes apostolic summits in different regions of the U.S. from time to time. These are generally open meetings, not restricted to ICA members only.
Once or twice a year the ICA Apostolic Leadership Team travels to a different region of the world in order to hold an invitation-only meeting of regional apostles. This invariably brings together apostles who have much in common but who have not previously been able to connect with each other. As a direct result of these summits,
the European League of Apostles, the Nigerian Coalition of Apostles, and the Spanish Apostolic Forum have been formed, and the strength of the international apostolic movement has been greatly increased. All current members of ICA are automatically invited to attend any of these international meetings as they desire.
Administration
ICA is administered as a d.b.a. of Global Harvest Ministries of Colorado Springs, Colorado.
ICA Presiding Apostle C. Peter Wagner is President of Global Harvest, and Doris Wagner and Chuck Pierce serve as Vice-Presidents. John Kelly of LEAD is the ICA Ambassadorial Apostle. Chuck Pierce is Apostle-at-Large. Janine Cave is the full-time administrator. Financial records may be accessed by ICA members at any time. An annual audit is performed by Capin & Crouse. ICA holds membership in the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA) through Global Harvest Ministries. No compensation is paid to officers of ICA, all of whom serve in an honorary capacity.
ICA Apostolic Council
The Presiding Apostle appoints an ICA Apostolic Council which provides advice and accountability.
ICA members are free to bring any concern which may arise to any or all council members. The ICA Apostolic Council is made up of C. Peter Wagner, John Kelly, Chuck Pierce, Doris Wagner, Naomi Dowdy, Ed Silvoso, Dennis Peacocke, Bill Hamon, Joseph Mattera, Ron Cottle, James Chosa, Dan Juster, Pat Francis, and George Bakalov, John Eckhardt, and H. Daniel Wilson. Addresses and other contact numbers of Apostolic Council members are available to all ICA members upon request to the Colorado Springs ICA office or on the ICA website.
It must be understood that ICA is not a council-run organization. Rather, it is governed by apostolic leadership. Because ICA functions on relationships, it is not bound by any legal structure such as bylaws
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i wish we didn't have to look at stuff like this, but we do.
when watching the Bentley fiasco, and all the others, it's easy to dismiss it as just silliness. but the network is HUGE and growing. anyone who cares to just has to do some investigation and decide whether this stuff is biblical or not.
as i said, and the reason for posting all this (just one example) is not because these men are so obviously wolves in sheep's clothing, BUT BECAUSE OF THE SHEEP. watching them flock to these charlatans is very scary.
Hebrews 5
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.