Oh goody another OSAS thread!

[Ralph-]

lol you can use as many man made terms as youd like to try and disprove Gods promises

no long winded discussion needed

I did not invent the two kinds of 'once saved always saved' beliefs. Once saved always saved did. And they contradict each other. I had the feeling you could not see this.

john 6


37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


galatians 3

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

None of these passages are made untrue by believing that salvation can be lost. That's what 'once saved always saved' people can't comprehend. Even when you show them. It's a very stubborn indoctrination that is presently gripping the church.

 

[Ralph-]

Ralph,

I am surprised that by now you still do not have a complete grasp and understanding of salvation.

As to predetermination, since God has predestined all genuine believers for ultimate perfection and glorification, that in itself if sufficient to prove that you really don't understand the meaning of salvation.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:29,30)

So what has God revealed here through the apostle Paul?

DIVINE FOREKNOWLEDGE
LEADS TO
PREDESTINATION FOR THE PERFECTION OF THE SAINTS
THEREFORE
GOD CALLS
GOD JUSTIFIES
GOD SANCTIFIES
GOD GLORIFIES

As you can see, there is no back-tracking with God. But you are creating a man-made religion. This is not a license to sin, but a reason to be holy.

1 JOHN 3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. [PERFECTION AND GLORIFICATION]

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

I know that it is futile to expect vocal once saved always saved believers to understand the argument against their doctrine. You are in a box and you don't know it. You're saying an argument against once saved always saved does not and can not exist. You say that not because no argument against it exists but because you are literally incapable of seeing it. I know how indocrtinations work.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I did not invent the two kinds of 'once saved always saved' beliefs. Once saved always saved did. And they contradict each other. I had the feeling you could not see this.



None of these passages are made untrue by believing that salvation can be lost. That's what 'once saved always saved' people can't comprehend. Even when you show them. It's a very stubborn indoctrination that is presently gripping the church.

LOL what an argument....


nuh uh! YOU'RE indoctrinated


i love our talks ralph

 

[Ralph-]

Nehemiah6, are you traditional once saved always saved, or the new Hypergrace once saved always saved?

 

[preston39]

no

i disagree that it is possible to ever be "saved" but then still suffer what it is you were saved from to begin with
if you end up in the lake of fire you were never "saved" <- definitely never born again

N...,
You have to convince me of that conclusion.
Backsliding is clearly covered in scriptures and I have seen it happen in this life. Things happen that is troubling to some that they give away all reality...at least for a time.

 

[justpassinthrough]

THIS thread is about OSAS, about whether once somebody is a sheep they can turn into a goat!.

Sheep can indeed become lost.


What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

• over one sinner who repents

Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.


Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• Brethren; James is writing to the Church and addressing brethren.
• if anyone among you wanders from the truth; again anyone among you refers to Christian brothers.
• wanders from the truth; Jesus Christ is the truth. The Gospel of the kingdom.
• let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death;

The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death.



JPT

 

[PurpleCandles]

I'm a foolish dreamer

Ain't we all.

 

[RickyZ]

THIS thread is about OSAS, about whether once somebody is a sheep they can turn into a goat!.

Actually, according to the op, this thread is not about osas, but why so people waste so much time and energy on an unproductive, endless debate. Has anyone in these 80 pages - or Dcon's 3300 pages - or the 6 current osas threads - or the dozens of recent past osas threads - changed their mind on the subject? The insane amount of man-hours spent debating if one can lose salvation would be much better spent trying to get people saved in the first part - and let God figger out the rest.

 

[preston39]

Why? When you deny what is in the Bible and what has been posted ad infinitum in threads like this and all over the board.
Tell you what you do brother. Log off this site and find a Bible site and read the four synoptic Gospels. There you'll have it.

O...,

That is not a reference to support your position.

It is your stated position and your chance to validate it.

Your choice.

A lot of junk on the board...the reason for proper validation.

 

[preston39]

Actually, according to the op, this thread is not about osas, but why so people waste so much time and energy on an unproductive, endless debate. Has anyone in these 80 pages - or Dcon's 3300 pages - or the 6 current osas threads - or the dozens of recent past osas threads - changed their mind on the subject? The insane amount of man-hours spent debating if one can lose salvation would be much better spent trying to get people saved in the first part - and let God figger out the rest.

R...,

OSAS thinkers will cost some their eternal salvation. What is the purpose of witnessing to get folks repented.....eternal salvation also.
Does it really matter how we help them so long as it is per the Bible?.....and OSAS is not scriptural.

G-d has it figured out.......maintain righteousness until the end.

 

[Nehemiah6]

G-d has it figured out.......maintain righteousness until the end.

First of all it is "GOD" not G-d, and secondly God does the maintaining.

Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1 Pet 1:5).

 

[Epiales]

Losing one's salvation is NEW AGE RELIGION.

This nonsense was not promoted by Christ or the apostles. If a human being must maintain his salvation, then that would be a pathetic salvation indeed. A man-made salvation. So get down to some serious study about the perfect finished work of Christ and how it applies to the children of God.

I think these people believe that animal sacrifices were SUPERIOR to the blood of Christ... hmmm .. Kinda silly tbh...

 

[preston39]

First of all it is "GOD" not G-d, and secondly God does the maintaining.

Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1 Pet 1:5).

N...,
G-d is used for a very good reason of which your lack of knowledge is void....or you wouldn't make such comment.
That's the wackyeist comment i have heard today. What bible are you using? That is not what 1 Peter 1:5 means...at all.
Suggest you get a good one.

2nd of all you need to study scriptures ...seriously.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes it not the Fathers will that any are lost.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Does that mean no one is lost?

Unbelievers are lost. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Only those who obey the Gospel are saved.

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16). In Romans 10:16, we read - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report? So we obey the gospel by choosing to believe/trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36

In John 3:36, "He that BELIEVES on the Son has everlasting life". *Notice that this BELIEF is not in yourself or in good works. Notice also that this BELIEF is not in Jesus Christ "plus something else," otherwise the BELIEF (trust, reliance) would not be "ON (or in) THE SON".

I have often heard works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics) cite John 3:36 in the NAS translation of the Bible and stress the word "obey" the Son, then write a blank check with the word "obey" and fill out whatever amount of works they feel are necessary to be saved (water baptism, partaking of the Lord's Supper during Mass, obeying the commandments, performing works of charity etc..) and call that believing in the Son, yet they are actually believing "in their works" and not IN THE SON.

In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing on/in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe on/in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe on/in the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NKJV says "does not believe the Son" and the NIV says "rejects the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." *In the context of 3:36, to not obey the Son means to reject His message by refusing to believe on/in the Son.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I think these people believe that animal sacrifices were SUPERIOR to the blood of Christ... hmmm .. Kinda silly tbh...

That's true and very unfortunate.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Losing one's salvation is NEW AGE RELIGION.

This nonsense was not promoted by Christ or the apostles. If a human being must maintain his salvation, then that would be a pathetic salvation indeed. A man-made salvation. So get down to some serious study about the perfect finished work of Christ and how it applies to the children of God.

well actually it i old age too. It was found not long after the flood in babel. It was even aroundbefore the food. Cain is an example. Later, The jew's mastered this form of salvation in their law imposing doctrines, even trying to pervert the church by adding laws like circumcision and other things, Sadly, the church went about and made the same mistake, by adding baptism and other works of righteousness to the gospel of Grace. as the jews tried to do.

Sadly, The end result will be the same

depart from me, for I NEVER KNEW YOU.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

lol you can use as many man made terms as youd like to try and disprove Gods promises

no long winded discussion needed


john 6


37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


galatians 3

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

you must be talking to Ralphy again, So peacefull not having to hear such stuff..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually, according to the op, this thread is not about osas, but why so people waste so much time and energy on an unproductive, endless debate. Has anyone in these 80 pages - or Dcon's 3300 pages - or the 6 current osas threads - or the dozens of recent past osas threads - changed their mind on the subject? The insane amount of man-hours spent debating if one can lose salvation would be much better spent trying to get people saved in the first part - and let God figger out the rest.

actually, If you actually read the posts people make or paid attention to them, You would see that a few people have changed their view

In my view, since it is TWO gospels we are debating, and only one gospel will get anyone in heaven, If even 1 person changed their view and finds the true gospel and becomes saved, it is worth it.

 

[PennEd]

Sheep can indeed become lost.


What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

• over one sinner who repents

Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.


Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• Brethren; James is writing to the Church and addressing brethren.
• if anyone among you wanders from the truth; again anyone among you refers to Christian brothers.
• wanders from the truth; Jesus Christ is the truth. The Gospel of the kingdom.
• let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death;

The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death.



JPT

Of course sheep can get lost! Do a study on sheep and see how stupid they are. WE can get lost and can be very stupid. But remember, these are SHEEP getting lost. They are ALREADY sheep.
If we are ALREADY Children of God, and get lost, guess what? He is going to look for us UNTIL HE FINDS US!!!
Why did you skip over that supremely important detail?

 

[Ralph-]

actually, If you actually read the posts people make or paid attention to them, You would see that a few people have changed their view

In my view, since it is TWO gospels we are debating, and only one gospel will get anyone in heaven, If even 1 person changed their view and finds the true gospel and becomes saved, it is worth it.

Continuing to believe is not a second gospel. And it surely is not a gospel that can not save.

Look where we've come to. Now even 'believing' is you trying to earn your own salvation. That's hardly the gospel Paul preached. Bereans know this.