Not By Works

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OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
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Happy 4th of July!

Please, Remember the COST for your Freedom!

















Amen! Thank God for every soldier who passed in service to this great country. And those in uniform today, I say, Bless you for your service. I even say that when I see them in public. Police too.God protect them all.
There is a 4th of July thread here
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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by the way, you half quotes are deceptive....do not quote me unless your going to quote the whole quote....very evil and misleading....kind of like not being willing to share your particular religious affiliation.....
Yes benhur, stand up for Jesus, "What is your Church Denomination affiliation" everybody wants to know.

Better yet what reason are you keeping your Church Affiliation a secret.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
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What post did I rip you a new one in...please quote it....I have always said that sanctification is dual in usage...one accuratly describes out standing in Christ and is eternally applied due to being SAVED eternally by faith...the other is a process of growth and maturity, subject to successes or failures, will be rewarded accordingly and HAS NO BEARING ON SALVATION....

SO....if i ripped you a new one as you say, it must be because you tied it to salvation.....so....quote the post I responded to and my reply please.
I apologize. I cannot find the post. But me tying sanctification to salvation does sound like something I would say. I was probably thinking of Mt 25 and the people who did good work go to heaven and those not doing good work going to hell.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Excellent question. If you are saved and already have heaven, what is to complete?
You do not KNOW the difference between Salvation, and Sanctification do you? How SAD.

Sanctification is NOT ABOUT SAVING SELF. Sanctification is about SAVING OTHERS. How SAD.


 
Dec 12, 2013
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I apologize. I cannot find the post. But me tying sanctification to salvation does sound like something I would say. I was probably thinking of Mt 25 and the people who did good work go to heaven and those not doing good work going to hell.
No biggie.......and our works have nothing to do with being saved by faith....

NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy HAS HE SAVED US <---past tense...........

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE!
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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No biggie.......and our works have nothing to do with being saved by faith....

NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy HAS HE SAVED US <---past tense...........

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE!
WHO IS THE LORD AND WHO ARE THE SERVANTS? (luke 6:46)


1 Corinthians 5:6-13 Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth. I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”

OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)

SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)

OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.

THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.

JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)

WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?

WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)

IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?

JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.

Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?

GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)

NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?

Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.

ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?

DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?

Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..

"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)
 
Oct 31, 2015
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You TOTALLY ARE CONFUSED ABOUT THE BOOK OF JAMES. James DOES NOT contradict other Authors of the BIBLE, he is saying if you doubt my SALVATION, look at my BORN AGAIN Human Spirit, how it was changed to WANT TO DO WHAT PLEASES MY LORD BECAUSE I LOVE HIM.
I never said James contradicts anyone.

Those are your words.

I clearly show from James the principle or law of faith.


Faith comes to a person when they hear God speak to them, however that faith must be activated in order to produce the intended divine result, otherwise it remains incomplete.



James explains -

  • by works faith was made perfect

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
James 2:21-22

  • Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac


The "works" James is describing is the work or action of obedience.


Not the works of the law
Not good works
Not works that earn a wage


The work here that James is referring to is the work of obedience.


Works = The effort obedience requires.


James says that faith without this corresponding action of obedience, is dormant; inactive.


Just like a body without the spirit is dead, so faith without this obedience is dead, and is unable to produce the intended divine result.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26



The obedience part of faith concerning the Gospel is to confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord.


10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:10


  • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.



JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Apostle John is speaking to believer's whose sin needs to be confessed so that he can receive forgiveness from God

That’s what I have been saying.


In order to be forgiven our sin, we need to confess it.


8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:8-9



JPT
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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Does anyone know how to enter a new name on the IGNORE LIST?
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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WHO IS THE LORD AND WHO ARE THE SERVANTS? (luke 6:46)


DO YOU WANT TO MAKE THE LORD ALMIGHTY TO BE THE SERVANT OF THE SERVANTS?

OR WOULD YOU RATHER WANT TO MAKE THE SERVANT TO BE THE LORD OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY?

Luke 6 : 46
46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?
Malachi 3 : 13-18
13 "You have said harsh things against me," says the LORD. "Yet you ask, 'What have we said against you?'
14 "You have said, 'It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the LORD Almighty?
15 But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.'"
16 Then those who feared the LORD talked with each other, and the LORD listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the LORD and honored his name.
17 "They will be mine," says the LORD Almighty, "in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him.
18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between THOSE WHO SERVE GOD AND THOSE WHO DO NOT.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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Does anyone know how to enter a new name on the IGNORE LIST?
Hi VCO, click the posters screen name and a new window will open, then click "Ignore" and enter the name you wish to ignore. You cannot put them on ignore from your profile, doesn't work. If you need more help just ask no problem.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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1 Peter 3 : 15-16
15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander

1 Timothy 6 : 3-5
3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
4 he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
5 and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

2 Timothy 2 : 11-19
11 Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him;
12 if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;
13 if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.
14 Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,
18 who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."
 
May 20, 2018
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Most "Christians" will disagree with you, they don't like a Gospel that leaves them nothing to boast about. They prefer the man centered gospel, where they receive the reward of salvation for their wise choice to accept Jesus.
They don't believe any of the scriptures which state that God is the One who saves sinners, and that man would never choose to believe if God left them in their blind state.
Is that not the base medium of the "Good News"?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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Interesting question. I would like to know the answer to that too?
Not sure of the Number, but MOST MAINLINE DENOMINATIONS DO NOT BELIEVE IN WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS, and therefore they would be classified GRACE through Faith Denominations. Your idea of Faith Alone, was misnamed, because Faith is PART OF GRACE, not the other way around.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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You do not KNOW the difference between Salvation, and Sanctification do you? How SAD.

Sanctification is NOT ABOUT SAVING SELF. Sanctification is about SAVING OTHERS. How SAD.


I believe that the sancification process has to be complete before one is saved. Tell me how one can be saved without being sanctified?

How sad is it that I want to do some good works for Christ, and somehow that is going to get in the way of my salvation? That is your sad misconception that good works will somehow stop me from getting salvation.

Again, the sign that you are saved is good works, those works that you were saved unto. Those works that Jesus has prepared for you to do. Those works that you do to be in obedience with what Jesus Christ taught us to do. Those works we do out of love for Jesus. Those works we do to help the children of God and to ease their burdens. Etc., Etc., Etc.

I know you do good works, so why do you preach agains good works? Is is so you do not boast that you saved yourself? Nor do I, we cannot save ourselves not matter how many good works we do. Is it somehow taking your eyes off the cross? I would like to know why your continued resistence against good works.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Not sure of the Number, but MOST MAINLINE DENOMINATIONS DO NOT BELIEVE IN WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS, and therefore they would be classified GRACE through Faith Denominations. Your idea of Faith Alone, was misnamed, because Faith is PART OF GRACE, not the other way around.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
So you are saying you are not sure. Because the most mainline Christian church is the Catholic church and they believe in good works.

Another point is that no Christian believe in good works salvation. That is not a doctrine.

But the real question is: What denominations believe in OSAS, and which denominations do not?