Easy Believism and Lordship Salvation (why both are false Gospels)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#43
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#43
7seasrekeyed said:
you consistently seem to twist what the op is saying in order to make a point you and he do not agree on

it's gettin old :cool:
Click to expand...
Your ranting is also getting old. It you who twisted the poster's words to claim that there was hatred etc.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#45
#45
Nehemiah6 said:
"He is Lord" does that automatically make Him your Lord. You make Him Lord by submitting to His Lordship.
Click to expand...
How exactly does one submit to His Lordship, I have always wondered what this means in practical every day life?

Can you clarify?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#47
#47
Nehemiah6 said:
And it is also a fact. Do you want me to dissect what was posted and show you that you made a false accusation against Adstar?
Click to expand...

let me save you the trouble oh thou who forbidest women to speak in the congregation...cause yeah...that is your main problem here

for one thing, I never mentioned hatred

for another, you like to latch on to someone and try to get them angry so you can report them

I am sure you will understand if I don't play that game with you

over n out

here's my post

you know, he said absolutely nothing whatsoever about being sinless

I find that when someone jumps to this conclusion they may be a struggle with some particular sin, they feel judged and then jump on someone who mentions turning away from your sin..as scripture actually says a converted person will do and they have the Holy Spirit to enable them to turn from sin

I have no idea if that applies to you, but it is an observation.

your post is just screaming anger and judgement. you make the op sound like he is personally directing what he said to you

if the shoe fits, wear it, but maybe don't go postal and claim he said things he never said or intended

why is that?

 
LW97

LW97

Senior Member
#48
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
260
63
#48
7seasrekeyed said:
let me save you the trouble oh thou who forbidest women to speak in the congregation...cause yeah...that is your main problem here

for one thing, I never mentioned hatred

for another, you like to latch on to someone and try to get them angry so you can report them

I am sure you will understand if I don't play that game with you

over n out

here's my post

you know, he said absolutely nothing whatsoever about being sinless

I find that when someone jumps to this conclusion they may be a struggle with some particular sin, they feel judged and then jump on someone who mentions turning away from your sin..as scripture actually says a converted person will do and they have the Holy Spirit to enable them to turn from sin

I have no idea if that applies to you, but it is an observation.

your post is just screaming anger and judgement. you make the op sound like he is personally directing what he said to you

if the shoe fits, wear it, but maybe don't go postal and claim he said things he never said or intended

why is that?
Click to expand...
amen
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#49
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#49
UnderGrace said:
How exactly does one submit to His Lordship, I have always wondered what this means in practical every day life?

Can you clarify?
Click to expand...
It simply means total obedience to Christ and a total repudiation of your former life as a sinning human being. It begins with immediate obedience to Christ's commandment to be baptized. And then it involves surrendering every aspect of your life to Christ, and forsaking that which is contrary to the teachings of Christ and His apostles. Here is a biblical example:

LUKE 19
8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Zacchaeus was the chief tax collector and he had become rich through extortion. But when Christ invited Himself into his house, Zacchaeus believed on Him, received Him joyfully, and acknowledged Him as "Lord". Zacchaeus did not call Jesus "Master" (rabbi) but "Lord" (Kurios). And because of that, he genuinely repented and declared his repentance through a serious commitment to make proper restitution.

He immediately gave away half his wealth to the poor! And even though a thief was required to pay double of what he had stolen (Exod 22:7), Zacchaeus pledged to restore four time what he had stolen. He was applying this principle to his restitution: If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep. (Exod 22:1)

And because of his repentance and his acknowledging of Jesus as "Lord", Christ declared that salvation had come to this house. Also, the repentant thief on the cross addressed Jesus as "Lord".
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#50
#50
Nehemiah6 said:
It simply means total obedience to Christ and a total repudiation of your former life as a sinning human being.
Click to expand...
Name one person besides Christ who has fulfilled this obligation. Peter did not, nor did paul Can you name any?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#51
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#51
UnderGrace said:
No the problem is our cultural understanding of "change of mind" which is likened to or reduced to a simple change of taste or a shift in thinking or a change of preferences like a new preference of Marinara Sauce as opposed to Alfredo sauce.

The deeper, truer meaning of "metanoia" as a radical, profound, everlasting work in the mind eludes the western culture.

When we are called to change our mind/metanoia it is on God's terms not ours He knows and accepts the person who has truly come to the profound and deep understanding of Jesus as Saviour in mind and heart.
Click to expand...
Godly repentance isn't just a change of mind. That idea is due to a limitation imposed by the Greek language. Repentance is a change of mind and heart.

But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart, you are storing up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and of the revelation of the righteous judgment of God, Romans 2:5​
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#52
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#52
eternally-gratefull said:
Name one person besides Christ who has fulfilled this obligation. Peter did not, nor did paul Can you name any?
Click to expand...
Peter did not? Paul did not? Where did you come up with this nonsense? You are accusing the apostles of failure to obey Christ, which is a very serious false accusation. Peter repented of his betrayal, and Paul repented of his enmity to Christ and Christians. And they went on to be outstanding faithful apostles of Christ, and both were martyred.
 
LW97

LW97

Senior Member
#53
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
260
63
#53
Nehemiah6 said:
It simply means total obedience to Christ and a total repudiation of your former life as a sinning human being. It begins with immediate obedience to Christ's commandment to be baptized. And then it involves surrendering every aspect of your life to Christ, and forsaking that which is contrary to the teachings of Christ and His apostles. Here is a biblical example:

LUKE 19
8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Zacchaeus was the chief tax collector and he had become rich through extortion. But when Christ invited Himself into his house, Zacchaeus believed on Him, received Him joyfully, and acknowledged Him as "Lord". Zacchaeus did not call Jesus "Master" (rabbi) but "Lord" (Kurios). And because of that, he genuinely repented and declared his repentance through a serious commitment to make proper restitution.

He immediately gave away half his wealth to the poor! And even though a thief was required to pay double of what he had stolen (Exod 22:7), Zacchaeus pledged to restore four time what he had stolen. He was applying this principle to his restitution: If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep. (Exod 22:1)

And because of his repentance and his acknowledging of Jesus as "Lord", Christ declared that salvation had come to this house. Also, the repentant thief on the cross addressed Jesus as "Lord".
Click to expand...
Total obedience? Wow. Nice try working your way to heaven
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#54
#54
man I get so fed up of people taking over the op's of other people

but it is revealing anyway :cool:
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#55
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#55
7seasrekeyed said:
man I get so fed up of people taking over the op's of other people

but it is revealing anyway :cool:
Click to expand...
Situation normal. Welcome to CC or should I say bible discussion forum? LOL

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#56
#56
Nehemiah6 said:
Peter did not? Paul did not? Where did you come up with this nonsense? You are accusing the apostles of failure to obey Christ, which is a very serious false accusation. Peter repented of his betrayal, and Paul repented of his enmity to Christ and Christians. And they went on to be outstanding faithful apostles of Christ, and both were martyred.
Click to expand...
Lol well lets see, paul said he had not yet arrived, and called himself chief of all sinners (present tense not past tense) and paul had to call out peter for sin,

So again, can you name anyone who achieved sinless oerfection in this lifetime apart from Christ?
 
LW97

LW97

Senior Member
#57
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
260
63
#57
eternally-gratefull said:
Lol well lets see, paul said he had not yet arrived, and called himself chief of all sinners (present tense not past tense) and paul had to call out peter for sin,

So again, can you name anyone who achieved sinless oerfection in this lifetime apart from Christ?
Click to expand...
Amen.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#58
#58
Nehemiah6 said:
It simply means total obedience to Christ and a total repudiation of your former life as a sinning human being. It begins with immediate obedience to Christ's commandment to be baptized. And then it involves surrendering every aspect of your life to Christ, and forsaking that which is contrary to the teachings of Christ and His apostles. Here is a biblical example:

LUKE 19
8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Zacchaeus was the chief tax collector and he had become rich through extortion. But when Christ invited Himself into his house, Zacchaeus believed on Him, received Him joyfully, and acknowledged Him as "Lord". Zacchaeus did not call Jesus "Master" (rabbi) but "Lord" (Kurios). And because of that, he genuinely repented and declared his repentance through a serious commitment to make proper restitution.

He immediately gave away half his wealth to the poor! And even though a thief was required to pay double of what he had stolen (Exod 22:7), Zacchaeus pledged to restore four time what he had stolen. He was applying this principle to his restitution: If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep. (Exod 22:1)

And because of his repentance and his acknowledging of Jesus as "Lord", Christ declared that salvation had come to this house. Also, the repentant thief on the cross addressed Jesus as "Lord".
Click to expand...

When I read your post this is what I thought....

"Shallow Christianity is not cured by adding works to salvation"
Dr. M. Gambron

"Lordship Salvation" always ends up being about works to either prove, maintain or secure salvation which is not the Gospel.

Acknowledging Jesus as your personal Lord does not save.
 
LW97

LW97

Senior Member
#59
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
260
63
#59
UnderGrace said:
When I read your post this is what I thought....

"Shallow Christianity is not cured by adding works to salvation"
Dr. M. Gambron

"Lordship Salvation" always ends up being about works to either prove, maintain or secure salvation which is not the Gospel.

Acknowledging Jesus as your personal Lord does not save.
Click to expand...
I believe in a changed life after salvation, but I do not believe salvation was bound on works in any ways
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#60
#60
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Godly repentance isn't just a change of mind. That idea is due to a limitation imposed by the Greek language. Repentance is a change of mind and heart.

But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart, you are storing up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and of the revelation of the righteous judgment of God, Romans 2:5​
Click to expand...

Again western culture has compartmentalized the two, rather than correctly understanding that the heart is the metaphysical component of a person, their inner/heart which consists of their emotions, mind, will etc.,

So not disagreeing but rather seeing the mind as part of the heart of the person as a connected entity.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.