John 6:37-39, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me, and this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but raise it up again at the last day. This was Jesus's act of atonement for us and everyone that he died for will not be lost, but live with him in heaven. If he died for all mankind, then all mankind will live with him in heaven,which we know that the scriptures will not support that. Romans 5:11, And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ by whom we have now received the atonement.
What must I do to be saved
- Thread starter MarkWilliams
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Jesus Christ has dozens of names and titles. The "Root of Jesse" is one of them.
Isaiah 11:10 In that day the root of Jesse, who shall stand as a signal for the peoples—of him shall the nations inquire, and his resting place shall be glorious.
Romans 15:
12 And again Isaiah says,
“The root of Jesse will come,
even he who arises to rule the Gentiles;
in him will the Gentiles hope.”
Just like "son of man", "Kingdom of Heaven" and many other names and titles, "Root" is one Jesus uses.
Next question.....
The children of God are shown in Rom 1:16-17.
Romans 1:18 – 32 relates to those who are unbelievers, those who restrain the truth in unrighteousness.
These are not "disobedient children" who are being chastened by God. These are unbelievers who continuously reject God. As they walk further and further away from Him, God lets them go on to worse and worse behavior. They go from unthankful (Rom 1:21) to fools (Rom 1:22) to idolatrous (Rom 1:23) to uncleanness (Rom 1:24) to vile affections (Rom 1:26) to reprobate (Rom 1:28).
Romans 1:18 – 32 relates to those who are unbelievers, those who restrain the truth in unrighteousness.
These are not "disobedient children" who are being chastened by God. These are unbelievers who continuously reject God. As they walk further and further away from Him, God lets them go on to worse and worse behavior. They go from unthankful (Rom 1:21) to fools (Rom 1:22) to idolatrous (Rom 1:23) to uncleanness (Rom 1:24) to vile affections (Rom 1:26) to reprobate (Rom 1:28).
Ralph … let it go. I did nothing that "completely messed this one up".
Since when is it "baseless" or "meaningless" to strenuously implore that you not add to Scripture? The Lord Jesus Christ Himself interpreted the parable. The Lord Jesus Christ did not identify the sower. You have agreed the sower was not identified.
Go back and read post #448.
I gave warning that to conflate the "faith without works is dead" passage with the "parable of the sower" passages is not proper rightly dividing of Scripture.
You agreed with my conclusion.
mailmandan indicated he found the information useful.
I do not believe it is beneficial to meld Matt 15:13 with the parable of the sower. Matt 15:13 relates to the traditions of men taught by scribes and pharisees.
I did not completely miss the point.
I ignored the point as a foolish and unlearned question (2 Tim 2:23).
Since when is it "baseless" or "meaningless" to strenuously implore that you not add to Scripture? The Lord Jesus Christ Himself interpreted the parable. The Lord Jesus Christ did not identify the sower. You have agreed the sower was not identified.
Go back and read post #448.
I gave warning that to conflate the "faith without works is dead" passage with the "parable of the sower" passages is not proper rightly dividing of Scripture.
You agreed with my conclusion.
mailmandan indicated he found the information useful.
I do not believe it is beneficial to meld Matt 15:13 with the parable of the sower. Matt 15:13 relates to the traditions of men taught by scribes and pharisees.
I did not completely miss the point.
I ignored the point as a foolish and unlearned question (2 Tim 2:23).
Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to convict the world, not just the elect, of sin, righteousness and judgement. (john 16: 7- 11)
Those who are so convicted are drawn to Jesus, not irresistibly and invincibly, but by the loving kindness, hope, truth and invitation revealed in the gospel, to come to Him. (Jer. 31: 3)
To: Mark Williams, #1
Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to convict the world, not just the elect, of sin, righteousness and judgment, through the gospel, the word of truth. (John 16: 7- 11)
Those who are so convicted, are drawn to Jesus, not irresistibly and invincibly, but by the loving kindness of God, the hope, the truth and the invitation of our Lord to come to Him. (Jer. 31: 3)
“IF ANYONE WISHES TO COME AFTER ME, LET HIM DENY HIMSELF, AND TAKE UP HIS CROSS AND FOLLOW ME. (Matt 16: 24)
Please note this is to “anyone.”
Second, the coming is a choice on the part of man.
Third, the first requirement in coming after Jesus is to deny self, to surrender his life to the lordship of Jesus Christ.
Those who deny themselves are begotten by God, as His creation, to faith, hope, love, obedience, holiness, overcoming the world and not sinning. (1 John 2: 29; 3: 9; 4: 7; 5: 1, 4, 18; 1Peter 1: 3; John 1: 12, 13) Faith is a work of God (John 6: 29), and is received as a gift by grace, by our heart upon hearing the word of God. (Rom 10: 10, 17)
When we are called, God opens our hearts to respond accordingly. (Acts 16: 14)
At Pentecost those who believed were told to call upon the name of the Lord for forgiveness of sin by repentance and being baptized in the name of Christ. (Acts 2: 21, 37-39, 41; 22: 16)
These people and all that God calls to Himself were promised the gift of the Holy Spirit to regenerate, renew, give a new heart and spirit and to seal them as children of God.
When Cornelius and his household received the gift of the Holy Spirit, they were baptized with the Spirit. (Acts 10: 44- 48; 11: 16; 1 Cor. 12: 13)
As they come forth from the one baptism, they are born of water and the Spirit; they are children of God. (John 3: 3, 5)
God bless.
Those who are so convicted are drawn to Jesus, not irresistibly and invincibly, but by the loving kindness, hope, truth and invitation revealed in the gospel, to come to Him. (Jer. 31: 3)
To: Mark Williams, #1
Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to convict the world, not just the elect, of sin, righteousness and judgment, through the gospel, the word of truth. (John 16: 7- 11)
Those who are so convicted, are drawn to Jesus, not irresistibly and invincibly, but by the loving kindness of God, the hope, the truth and the invitation of our Lord to come to Him. (Jer. 31: 3)
“IF ANYONE WISHES TO COME AFTER ME, LET HIM DENY HIMSELF, AND TAKE UP HIS CROSS AND FOLLOW ME. (Matt 16: 24)
Please note this is to “anyone.”
Second, the coming is a choice on the part of man.
Third, the first requirement in coming after Jesus is to deny self, to surrender his life to the lordship of Jesus Christ.
Those who deny themselves are begotten by God, as His creation, to faith, hope, love, obedience, holiness, overcoming the world and not sinning. (1 John 2: 29; 3: 9; 4: 7; 5: 1, 4, 18; 1Peter 1: 3; John 1: 12, 13) Faith is a work of God (John 6: 29), and is received as a gift by grace, by our heart upon hearing the word of God. (Rom 10: 10, 17)
When we are called, God opens our hearts to respond accordingly. (Acts 16: 14)
At Pentecost those who believed were told to call upon the name of the Lord for forgiveness of sin by repentance and being baptized in the name of Christ. (Acts 2: 21, 37-39, 41; 22: 16)
These people and all that God calls to Himself were promised the gift of the Holy Spirit to regenerate, renew, give a new heart and spirit and to seal them as children of God.
When Cornelius and his household received the gift of the Holy Spirit, they were baptized with the Spirit. (Acts 10: 44- 48; 11: 16; 1 Cor. 12: 13)
As they come forth from the one baptism, they are born of water and the Spirit; they are children of God. (John 3: 3, 5)
God bless.
R
Of all the metaphors in the Parable of the Sower, the seed metaphor is seed, the soil metaphor is soil, the sower metaphor is the sower, the sun metaphor is the sun, the plant metaphor are plants, the crop metaphor is the crop, the thorn metaphor are thorns, but when you get to the root you suddenly decide the root metaphor is not the root of a plant.
It's not right to do that just so the Parable supports your predetermined beliefs about 'once saved always saved'. Of course, you have to do that because if you let the root be the root of a plant, just as the soil is the soil, and the seed is a seed, the passage doesn't support 'once saved always saved'. You unreasonably make the root not a root in order to make it mean what you want it to mean. That's not right. That's not reasonable. The obvious and reasonable and consistent reading is that the root is the root of a plant.
And it's not right to let a less concise, more vague passage of scripture take precedence over more compelling and plain scripture that comes right out says that 'once saved always saved' is not true. We have more compelling and straightforward scriptures that talk plainly about forfeiting salvation, i.e. the letter to the Galatians. Yet you're letting the vague and less concise Parable of the Sower, interpreted to your liking, override the plain words about forfeiting salvation found in other passages.
If you got arrested for a crime and the jury chose more vague, less compelling evidence to convict you over more plain and straightforward evidence that exonerated you, you'd think that was wrong. But that is exactly what you are doing here. You're choosing to interpret a far less concise passage of scripture to condemn the argument against 'once saved always saved' and choosing to ignore the plain passages of scripture that prove the argument against 'once saved always saved'.
It's not right to do that just so the Parable supports your predetermined beliefs about 'once saved always saved'. Of course, you have to do that because if you let the root be the root of a plant, just as the soil is the soil, and the seed is a seed, the passage doesn't support 'once saved always saved'. You unreasonably make the root not a root in order to make it mean what you want it to mean. That's not right. That's not reasonable. The obvious and reasonable and consistent reading is that the root is the root of a plant.
And it's not right to let a less concise, more vague passage of scripture take precedence over more compelling and plain scripture that comes right out says that 'once saved always saved' is not true. We have more compelling and straightforward scriptures that talk plainly about forfeiting salvation, i.e. the letter to the Galatians. Yet you're letting the vague and less concise Parable of the Sower, interpreted to your liking, override the plain words about forfeiting salvation found in other passages.
If you got arrested for a crime and the jury chose more vague, less compelling evidence to convict you over more plain and straightforward evidence that exonerated you, you'd think that was wrong. But that is exactly what you are doing here. You're choosing to interpret a far less concise passage of scripture to condemn the argument against 'once saved always saved' and choosing to ignore the plain passages of scripture that prove the argument against 'once saved always saved'.
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Go check out 2 Timothy 2:23.
I am not confused about what you and mailmandan were talking about.
You are the one who initially brought up this foolishness in your post #447 submitted last Friday.
In post #451, mailmandan indicated he never said it was the devil's seed being sown in the parable of the soils.
In your post #472, you told me that if I "want to go on record that it could have been the devil who sowed the seed in the 4th type of soil, so be it".
In my post #488, I told you I never stated that, nor did I infer that.
You introduced the issue; no one is biting in your failed attempt to phish this non-issue; yet you won't let it go. What's up with that?
I am not confused about what you and mailmandan were talking about.
You are the one who initially brought up this foolishness in your post #447 submitted last Friday.
In post #451, mailmandan indicated he never said it was the devil's seed being sown in the parable of the soils.
In your post #472, you told me that if I "want to go on record that it could have been the devil who sowed the seed in the 4th type of soil, so be it".
In my post #488, I told you I never stated that, nor did I infer that.
You introduced the issue; no one is biting in your failed attempt to phish this non-issue; yet you won't let it go. What's up with that?
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R
Plants don't grow without roots. Jesus said the seed 'sprang up' in the 2nd type of soil. How does that happen with ZERO root? The root is there. It is not a deep root. How do we know? Because the plant withered easily when the heat of the sun shone on it. You're being very unreasonable to insist the plant that sprang up in the soil has ZERO root. It's there. It has to be, or the plant would not spring up.
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R
Jesus is not a moron. He knew plants that are growing have to have roots.
I don't think you're a moron either. You know plants that are springing up HAVE to have roots and can not have no root at all.
We know he meant the plant had no firm/deep root because he said it withered away under the sun. Every weekend gardener knows a plant that is growing has to have roots, and that they have to be deep in the soil to keep from withering away easily.
I don't think you're a moron either. You know plants that are springing up HAVE to have roots and can not have no root at all.
We know he meant the plant had no firm/deep root because he said it withered away under the sun. Every weekend gardener knows a plant that is growing has to have roots, and that they have to be deep in the soil to keep from withering away easily.
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The plant can't get deeply rooted in #2 soils' heart because they're not rooted in themselves, ie, in their own hearts. Some people are just like that. They're not self-honest and don't deal with deep issues of the heart so that they can really know who they are. They live on the periphery of their lives; avoiding the hard work of knowing one's self; not deeply rooted in themselves.
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