Is abortion murder?

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D

Dem

Member
#21
Mar 7, 2018
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#21
dcontroversal said:
Yes it is murder and there is a price to pay.....note the following....

a. Under the law if a woman with child was hurt and it was an accident there was a financial price
b. Under the law if a woman with child was hurt on purpose and the child died it was eye for eye tooth for tooth
c. Under the law if an Ox gored a woman with child and the child died there was a price to pay for the owner and if I remember right if the OX was known for goring people it was to be put down
d. John the Baptist at 6 months old in the WOMB LEAPT for JOY at the sound of Mary's voice and he was called a BABE

The above 4 points prove to me that life begins at conception and abortion is murder!
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You have misquoted the bible please go back and reread it.
if a man causes a woman to have a miscarriage and the woman is not hurt then it is up to the husband if he want to fine the man. But if the woman is hurt in any way then we have an eye for an eye. not once is the man said to commit murder HMMMMM God seems to be more concerned with the woman here. Just saying
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#22
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#22
Dem said:
You have misquoted the bible please go back and reread it.
if a man causes a woman to have a miscarriage and the woman is not hurt then it is up to the husband if he want to fine the man. But if the woman is hurt in any way then we have an eye for an eye. not once is the man said to commit murder HMMMMM God seems to be more concerned with the woman here. Just saying
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I misquoted nothing....financial price if no mischief and LIFE FOR LIFE if mischief present....and as a matter fact I never quoted anything, just referenced the verses....

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe
 
D

Dem

Member
#23
Mar 7, 2018
288
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#23
dcontroversal said:
I misquoted nothing....financial price if no mischief and LIFE FOR LIFE if mischief present....and as a matter fact I never quoted anything, just referenced the verses....

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe
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Exo 21:22 If men strive and strike a pregnant woman, so that her child comes out, and there is no injury, he shall surely be punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him. And he shall pay as the judges say
Exo 21:23 And if any injury occurs, then you shall give life for life,
EXACTLY
1. So a man causes a woman to lose her unborn child and all he gets is a slap on his hand. and as you know if a man where to commit murder under the law what would be the punishment. Death right . but all that is happening here is a punishment. HMMM
2. Anti abortionist would say today that the man committed murder. God does not say that anywhere in these verses. God is more concerned with the life of the mother here and her health.
3. your using these verses to say God calls abortion murder is not true. As a matter of fact no where in the bible does God call abortion murder. HMMM just saying
 
Odelschwanck

Odelschwanck

Senior Member
#24
Jan 7, 2015
380
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#24
This verse caught me too and had me going existensial...until I looked it up and found that they had a word for miscariage and didn't use it. The verse is probably referring to early birth, with miscariage being a potential example of further damage.
 
D

Dem

Member
#25
Mar 7, 2018
288
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#25
Odelschwanck said:
This verse caught me too and had me going existensial...until I looked it up and found that they had a word for miscariage and didn't use it. The verse is probably referring to early birth, with miscariage being a potential example of further damage.
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At any rate the man caused the unborn child to die and God does not call it murder. Its a little mind blowing at first. But after some real nonpartisan study the understanding does come.
 
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jaybird88

Guest
#26
#26
abortion is wrong but i would not call it murder. IMO life begins at birth when you take your first breath. our physical body comes from our parents / this world, our soul does not come from our parents. without our soul we are nothing and we do not receive it until we are out of the womb.
also our life span goes from our birthday until our death day, if it started at conception there would be no point in having birthdays. those are the biblical examples as well ie someone was born in such and such year and they died a certain year, it goes from birth to death.
i also think abortion is a sin, Enoch says its a sin.
 
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SpoonJuly

Guest
#27
#27
Dem said:
You have misquoted the bible please go back and reread it.
if a man causes a woman to have a miscarriage and the woman is not hurt then it is up to the husband if he want to fine the man. But if the woman is hurt in any way then we have an eye for an eye. not once is the man said to commit murder HMMMMM God seems to be more concerned with the woman here. Just saying
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jaybird88 said:
abortion is wrong but i would not call it murder. IMO life begins at birth when you take your first breath. our physical body comes from our parents / this world, our soul does not come from our parents. without our soul we are nothing and we do not receive it until we are out of the womb.
also our life span goes from our birthday until our death day, if it started at conception there would be no point in having birthdays. those are the biblical examples as well ie someone was born in such and such year and they died a certain year, it goes from birth to death.
i also think abortion is a sin, Enoch says its a sin.
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Any time a person willfully takes the life of an innocent child, what else could you call it but murder.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#28
#28
SpoonJuly said:
Any time a person willfully takes the life of an innocent child, what else could you call it but murder.
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i agree with you on that, the Most High even says He detest the shedding of innocent blood.
but back to the subject of abortion i dont think its murder.
 
D

Dem

Member
#29
Mar 7, 2018
288
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#29
jaybird88 said:
abortion is wrong but i would not call it murder. IMO life begins at birth when you take your first breath. our physical body comes from our parents / this world, our soul does not come from our parents. without our soul we are nothing and we do not receive it until we are out of the womb.
also our life span goes from our birthday until our death day, if it started at conception there would be no point in having birthdays. those are the biblical examples as well ie someone was born in such and such year and they died a certain year, it goes from birth to death.
i also think abortion is a sin, Enoch says its a sin.
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Yes you hit the nail on the head we are not a soul until we take our first natural breath. And God is concerned with soul not so much the flesh. He knows the beginning from the end of each life. I believe that abortion can be a sin I guess not sure where Enoch says so. but to harm a living soul now you messing up.
 
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SpoonJuly

Guest
#30
#30
jaybird88 said:
i agree with you on that, the Most High even says He detest the shedding of innocent blood.
but back to the subject of abortion i dont think its murder.
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Abortion is willfully taking an innocent childs life.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#32
#32
Dem said:
Yes you hit the nail on the head we are not a soul until we take our first natural breath. And God is concerned with soul not so much the flesh. He knows the beginning from the end of each life. I believe that abortion can be a sin I guess not sure where Enoch says so. but to harm a living soul now you messing up.
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im assuming that we are both in agreement that its wrong. i dont agree with abortion, but i do think there are special extreme circumstances, if my daughter was raped and she wanted one i would support her, i would offer to take the child and raise them but would not forbid her to do one thing or another. with that being said, the bible makes it pretty clear that murder is a sin and there is no way around murder. and then you have a passage describing special circumstances Num. 5 for an abortion.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#35
#35
SpoonJuly said:
At conception.
Psalm 139:13
Luke 1:41,44
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there is no soul mentioned in those passages. the Lord formed us in the womb just as He formed Adam from the earth however the process was not complete until after the formation was complete and he breathed. when does a baby breath on its own? whats th deal with those doctors slapping those babies on the rear? this is common sense.
why do we not have conception days? do we praise Jesus on the day He was conceived or the that He was born. what is the significance of birth if the living soul process is complete before birth? makes no sense at all.
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#36
#36
By your definition, an abortion could take place an hour before birth and that would not be murder or even killing a person.
I disagree. God brings about conception. Life begins.
Every person involved in abortion will answer to God for it.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#37
#37
SpoonJuly said:
By your definition, an abortion could take place an hour before birth and that would not be murder or even killing a person.
I disagree. God brings about conception. Life begins.
Every person involved in abortion will answer to God for it.
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and what of all those facts i brought to your attention? no response.
i never said abortion is ok, everyone go out and do it. im saying its not murder because the living soul is not complete until breath is breathed. i think the bible makes this pretty obvious.
i dont like abortion anymore than you do, i dont like people cutting down trees either, but im not going to re write the bible to justify my own personal opinion.
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#38
#38
jaybird88 said:
and what of all those facts i brought to your attention? no response.
i never said abortion is ok, everyone go out and do it. im saying its not murder because the living soul is not complete until breath is breathed. i think the bible makes this pretty obvious.
i dont like abortion anymore than you do, i dont like people cutting down trees either, but im not going to re write the bible to justify my own personal opinion.
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So in your opinion, abortion just moments before birth means nothing. Just got rid of an unwanted fetus.
You don't like it but hey it was just a fetus. No soul. No person. No consequences.
And you can not prove that a soul does not enter the body until birth.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#39
#39
SpoonJuly said:
So in your opinion, abortion just moments before birth means nothing. Just got rid of an unwanted fetus.
You don't like it but hey it was just a fetus.
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no what have i been saying from the beginning, its wrong, its a sin, your also interfering with the creation process. a process the Lord designed.
No soul. No person.
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no soul is not a creation of the Lord.

No consequences.
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i think one would be judged for it.

And you can not prove that a soul does not enter the body until birth.
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Adams soul entered his body at his first breath. we are created of dust just as Adam, why would our soul be given any differently? if the Lord is going to deviate from this creation process where is the evidence? there is none.
 
D

Dem

Member
#40
Mar 7, 2018
288
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#40
jaybird88 said:
im assuming that we are both in agreement that its wrong. i dont agree with abortion, but i do think there are special extreme circumstances, if my daughter was raped and she wanted one i would support her, i would offer to take the child and raise them but would not forbid her to do one thing or another. with that being said, the bible makes it pretty clear that murder is a sin and there is no way around murder. and then you have a passage describing special circumstances Num. 5 for an abortion.
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No I believe that abortion is not murder and that it is a choice that a woman should be able to make without the government's interference if it is wrong God is in control and will handle it. God never calls abortion murder. It has turn into a political hack use by the right to get votes. that is how I see it. And we could go on for years with the topic it is what it is Gods got it.
 
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