The tree of knowledge of good and evil

[glf1]

The forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil; imparted the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve as they lost their innocence.
IMO this means: Those who haven't gotten old enough to know right from wrong and those who are handicapped remain innocent, like the angels, weren't able to commit any sins and are therefore free from judgment.

 

[Adstar]

I will agree up to the point where you start talking about the angels...

satan is a fallen angel.. Satan sinned.. One third of the angels of heaven are in league with satan .. So that means 1/3rd of angels are sinners..

 

[glf1]

Hey! Adstar... : )
Sorry for the misunderstanding! I think of Satan and his minion as the devil and demons verses angels, who haven't sinned...

 

[Ugly]

Hey! Adstar... : )
Sorry for the misunderstanding! I think of Satan and his minion as the devil and demons verses angels, who haven't sinned...

It's still a false notion. The very fact that satan and his followers sinned is proof angel's Can sin. You can't set them aside because it disproves your theory.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
Unfortunately, the knowledge of good and evil that the people obtained from
that tree made them God's rivals.

● Gen 3:21-22 . . And the Lord God said: The man has now become like one
of us

In other words: Adam's decision to taste the fruit set himself up as a deity;
which ironically enough, is exactly what the Serpent predicted.

● Gen 3:5 . .When you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be
like God

The Serpent didn't predict that the people would become holy, he predicted
that they'd become deities. Well; the only true deity in the Bible is man's
maker; so that the people actually became not real gods, rather, false gods;
i.e. imposters.

Also, the knowledge of good and evil that the people obtained didn't come
from God, rather, it was due to the chemistry of that tree. As a result; their
knowledge of good and evil wasn't divine, rather it was a natural knowledge;
which is an intuitive kind of knowledge rather than a knowledge obtained by
instruction.

For example; the very first urge that the people felt after tasting the fruit
was the urge to cover their pelvic areas with loin cloths because due to their
newly acquired knowledge of right and wrong they suddenly felt that frontal
exposure is shameful; but their maker hadn't said a word about standards of
decency. That urge wasn't given them from God; it was a natural urge
rather than a divine urge.

Romans 7:5 speaks of sinful passions. Well, those are natural urges, i.e. the
proclivities, predilections, and propensities that make up human nature-- all
derived from the chemistry of that tree.
_

 

[pjharrison]

The forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil; imparted the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve as they lost their innocence.
IMO this means: Those who haven't gotten old enough to know right from wrong and those who are handicapped remain innocent, like the angels, weren't able to commit any sins and are therefore free from judgment.

I don't really think it was the tree that changed Adam and Eve, I think it was their disobedience. Because they were living by the Spirit, but after they sinned. The spirit went down and the soul came up.

 

[Webers.Home]

.

I don't really think it was the tree that changed Adam and Eve

Some say there were no agents in the fruit to cause the changes in human
nature that occurred in the Adams. But I'm not so sure. According to an
article in the Oct 8, 2011 issue of the Oregonian; new research reveals that
some, if not all, the plants we eat actually change the behavior of human
genes in ways never before imagined.

A new study led by Chen-Yu Zhang, of Nanjing University, found that
fragments of plant genetic material survive digestion and wind up swimming
in the bloodstreams of humans and cows. Those tiny strands of RNA that
somehow make it through the toxic acids and enzymes in the gut come from
rice and the plant family that includes broccoli, brussels sprouts, cauliflower
and cabbage. Zhang found that they can muffle or amplify human gene
expression in various ways. The discovery could lead to ways of designing
plants that act as medicine or even change our own genetic structure for the
better (or the worse).

And it's well known what happens to kids when they move into adolescence.
Hormonal chemicals kick in, and their childish innocence vanishes; right out
the window. They lose interest in kid's toys and begin to take an interest in
things more appropriate for their age; including a very noticeable interest in
themselves, and in the opposite sex; and most especially in what others
think about them. In other words: they become self-conscious; which
Webster's defines as: uncomfortably aware of oneself as an object of the
observation of others.

Those adolescent changes aren't miraculous changes-- they're totally
natural, hormonally induced, organic changes. So if kids undergo a natural
kind of change because of the chemicals generated by the glands in their
own bodies, then there is good reason to believe that the tree of the
knowledge of good and evil actually did contain something that caused Adam
and his wife to suddenly have an intuitive sense of decency.

At any rate, the pending dialogue, between God and Man in the next few
verses, implies that God himself had no hand in making those two people
change. On the page of scripture, their altered human nature is directly
related to the fruit and to nothing else.

So instead of stretching our imaginations to construct a complex spiritual
explanation, I suggest it would be better to stick with the biological one and
let it go at that.
_

 

[pjharrison]

.



Some say there were no agents in the fruit to cause the changes in human
nature that occurred in the Adams. But I'm not so sure. According to an
article in the Oct 8, 2011 issue of the Oregonian; new research reveals that
some, if not all, the plants we eat actually change the behavior of human
genes in ways never before imagined.

A new study led by Chen-Yu Zhang, of Nanjing University, found that
fragments of plant genetic material survive digestion and wind up swimming
in the bloodstreams of humans and cows. Those tiny strands of RNA that
somehow make it through the toxic acids and enzymes in the gut come from
rice and the plant family that includes broccoli, brussels sprouts, cauliflower
and cabbage. Zhang found that they can muffle or amplify human gene
expression in various ways. The discovery could lead to ways of designing
plants that act as medicine or even change our own genetic structure for the
better (or the worse).

And it's well known what happens to kids when they move into adolescence.
Hormonal chemicals kick in, and their childish innocence vanishes; right out
the window. They lose interest in kid's toys and begin to take an interest in
things more appropriate for their age; including a very noticeable interest in
themselves, and in the opposite sex; and most especially in what others
think about them. In other words: they become self-conscious; which
Webster's defines as: uncomfortably aware of oneself as an object of the
observation of others.

Those adolescent changes aren't miraculous changes-- they're totally
natural, hormonally induced, organic changes. So if kids undergo a natural
kind of change because of the chemicals generated by the glands in their
own bodies, then there is good reason to believe that the tree of the
knowledge of good and evil actually did contain something that caused Adam
and his wife to suddenly have an intuitive sense of decency.

At any rate, the pending dialogue, between God and Man in the next few
verses, implies that God himself had no hand in making those two people
change. On the page of scripture, their altered human nature is directly
related to the fruit and to nothing else.

So instead of stretching our imaginations to construct a complex spiritual
explanation, I suggest it would be better to stick with the biological one and
let it go at that.
_

I still believe it was the sin act. God said 'Do not" , but they did anyway. That act of disobedience brought on the separation from God.

 

[beta]

So - could we say that our 'humanly manufactured diet today could be the cause/reason for our 'humanly degenerated behaviour ?
Eating the wrong food certainly has an effect on our health - physical and mental !

 

[beta]

I still believe it was the sin act. God said 'Do not" , but they did anyway. That act of disobedience brought on the separation from God.

Yes, I have always believed it was the human act of DISobedience that caused man's downfall.....but this act was obviously strongly supported by the 'attraction of the fruit/food and is still of MAJOR consideration in the food-trade to secure profit. Gen 3v6, attraction was used then as it still is today.

 

[Webers.Home]

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the human act of DISobedience that caused man's downfall

It's common knowledge that Adam's disobedience brought about the fall of man; but apparently nobody seems to know what caused the changes in his consciousness.

How did it come about that one minute Adam cared not at all about his appearance and the next minute suddenly ashamed of himself in the buff? Did God cause the change? Did the Serpent cause the change? Or was it to due to his body's natural reaction to the chemistry of the forbidden fruit?

I would greatly appreciate for someone who knows what the h__ll they're talking about to step up here and explain exactly what power, force, energy or chemistry it was that altered Adam's consciousness.
_

 

[Nehemiah6]

Those who haven't gotten old enough to know right from wrong and those who are handicapped remain innocent, like the angels, weren't able to commit any sins and are therefore free from judgment.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is ancient history. The present reality is that every human being is tainted with the virus of sin -- the Adamic sin nature, which leads to death. All human beings are subject to death.

Granted, that infants, little children and the mentally handicapped cannot understand or respond to the Gospel. But all have already been judged "guilty" before God. How He deals with them is another matter.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. (Rom 3:19)

 

[Nehemiah6]

I would greatly appreciate for someone who knows what the h__ll they're talking about to step up here and explain exactly what power, force, energy or chemistry it was that altered Adam's consciousness.

Satan knew this much -- that their "eyes would be opened" as soon as they partook of that fruit. So it is more than likely that there was something in the fruit itself which changed their consciousness into self-consciousness. But disobedience also brought shame and guilt. Therefore it may have been a combination of factors.

 

[Webers.Home]

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Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.(Rom 3:19)

The way I see it; when Rom 3:19 is kept in context with Rom 3:9-18; "all the world" does not pertain to underage children and/or mentally challenged folk.
_

 

[Nehemiah6]

. The way I see it; when Rom 3:19 is kept in context with Rom 3:9-18; "all the world" does not pertain to underage children and/or mentally challenged folk.

How can "all the world" mean anything less than "all the world"? God does not play semantic games. The guilt is there, but how God deals with the guilt is another matter (as already mentioned).

 

[abcdef]

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It's common knowledge that Adam's disobedience brought about the fall of man; but apparently nobody seems to know what caused the changes in his consciousness.

How did it come about that one minute Adam cared not at all about his appearance and the next minute suddenly ashamed of himself in the buff? Did God cause the change? Did the Serpent cause the change? Or was it to due to his body's natural reaction to the chemistry of the forbidden fruit?

I would greatly appreciate for someone who knows what the h__ll they're talking about to step up here and explain exactly what power, force, or energy it was that altered Adam's consciousness.
_

WH,

Before Adam's "fall", Adam only had knowledge of God and His love. God trusted Adam, Adam trusted God.

After the guilt from obeying the flesh entered his mind and spirit, separating him away from the perfect love and the presence of God and His love, Adam became "self conscience", he had "ego", attached to the flesh and mind spirit.

Then, within in Adam were 2 spirits, the spirit of God's love and the ego, the awareness of the flesh, the "demands" of the flesh on the conscience mind and actions of the entire being, soul.

This war within us, has been going on since that time. The ego vs God's "self" sacrificing love. The victory of the spirit over the flesh is found in Jesus and the gift of the Holy Spirit love Acts 2:38. (Self control, the spirit exercising power over the demands of the flesh, such as hunger, thirst, sex, etc.)

-------

The reason that Adam fell was the flesh. A soul after the image of God, but in the flesh.

If there were no material world, no flesh, how or why would Adam ever have sinned?

In the end, the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and the vain pride of life are passing away, 1 Jn 2:15-17. In the next world there will be no flesh to lust after. It will be very much like it was before creation, entirely spiritual.

So basically, it was the flesh that caused Adam to hurt God and His love by obeying the lust of the flesh instead being true to the love and trust that Adam and God shared.

Ego entered the mind of the human soul who was perfect in love with God.

 

[Webers.Home]

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disobedience also brought shame and guilt.

According to the record, the shame and/or guilt they experienced was related to their appearance rather than their conduct.
_

 

[Webers.Home]

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Before Adam's "fall", yada, yada, yada, yada

You know what some of the comments on this thread remind me of? A blind
man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there.
_

 

[Webers.Home]

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How can "all the world" mean anything less than "all the world"?

See Rom 3:9-20.
_

 

[MattforJesus]

The forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil; imparted the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve as they lost their innocence.
IMO this means: Those who haven't gotten old enough to know right from wrong and those who are handicapped remain innocent, like the angels, weren't able to commit any sins and are therefore free from judgment.

We do not inherit Adam and Eve's sin, original sin, for that is their sin, and everybody will bear their own sin.

It would of not entered Adam and Eve's mind to sin unless an outside source tempted them, so God allowed Satan to tempt Eve and she sinned, and then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam by showing him she did not die, and no harm came to her.

When they sinned then they had a choice between good and evil, so all their offspring will have a choice between good and evil, so we are born not knowing God, so we will sin before we come to God and repent of our sins, so all are sinners that have fallen short of the grace of God.

But we are born innocent with no sin on our record, which is why the Bible says the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones, for they are protected spiritually when they do not have any sin on their record.

But we will sin before we come to God and repent of our sins.

But it is not our fault for our condition of being born not knowing God, and sinning, for we could do nothing about it, but there is no excuse because we still have to do right and not wrong when we know right from wrong.

Lucifer was created perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him, so the angels had a choice, and Lucifer and some of the angels rebelled, and Lucifer's name became Satan to identify with his new identity, and they became known as devils.

The angels that are with God now cannot sin, for they stayed with God so they do not have a choice, but only see the ways of God like the saints when they are with Jesus will not have a choice anymore and cannot sin, but they are not robots for the angels and saints already made the choice beforehand.

A fallen angel cannot be redeemed for there is no way to put off the sin, for when they sinned they tainted their entire being.

A human can be saved despite their sins, for all sins reside in the flesh, which Paul said there is no good thing that dwells in the flesh, and the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other, and when their sins are forgiven and they are saved they can put off the flesh, and the soul is preserved, which shall have a glorified body.

So while it is the flesh that can condemn us, it is also because of the flesh we can be saved for we can repent of our sins, and put off the flesh.