What must I do to be saved

[Ralph-]

And there is a reason why they didn’t stick with it. Faith was never firmly rooted and established from the start or else they would have held fast to it.

You're doing it again. You're projecting your 'never really believed to begin with' predetermined doctrine onto a passage that does not teach that. You have decided to ignore what Paul himself says 'unless you believed in vain' means and have inserted your own once saved always saved bias into the passage.

What the passage teaches us is that it is the presently believing person who is presently saved. That is the take away from the passage. It is not a once saved always saved passage that says only true believers who really did believe to begin with hold fast to the gospel message or else they never 'really' believed to begin with. Nothing in there about not being firmly rooted, or not standing firmly. In fact, the passage plainly and emphatically says they did receive and stand firmly in the gospel message about a risen Christ he preached to them.

 

[Ralph-]

You cannot hold fast to that which you cannot attain.

It is Christ Who hold me not me holding Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

"24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you....

...If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

25And this is what he promised us—eternal life."

1 John 2:24-25


9Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son."-2 John 1:9


The promise of eternal life is conditioned on the word remaining in you. You must continue to believe the word of God in order to continue in the Son and the Father and have eternal life.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Abraham received faith when God spoke to Him.

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

That is how we receive faith.

I believe everyone has faith – even atheists. The issue is in what do we entrust our faith. The more we earnestly believe a lie, the worse it is for us because our faith remains weak, feeble.

You do know, don't you, that the word comes in Rom 10:17 was added by translators?

The verse reads as follows: "So faith by hearing moreover hearing by Rhema of God".

We don't just already, somehow have faith.

How do you know?

Faith is the divine substance of the the thing we are hoping to receive from God.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

Faith is the foundation upon which we hope for those things unseen.

Faith is what we receive when God speaks to us.

If we have faith, it's because God spoken to us, moved upon us, inspired us by communicating with us.

Romans 10:18-19 tells us that all Israel heard but not all Israel had faith.

According to you, faith comes by hearing the word of God. So why did some Israelites not have faith? According to Rom 10:18-19, they all heard.

7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

God spoke to Noah warning Him of the impending flood that was coming, now Noah has faith.

Noah did not have faith to build the Ark, before God spoke to him.

Noah had faith. What Noah did not have before God spoke to him was the Word of God. Noah did not have a word concerning the ark, the flood, the animals and birds. And when Noah heard the Word of God, he did not suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18).

What Noah did do is recorded in Gen 6:22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

We also know that with this faith came the divine ability to what he could not do without it; Grace.

Gen 6:8 tells us Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord before God spoke to him.

 

[justpassinthrough]

The verse reads as follows: "So faith by hearing moreover hearing by Rhema of God".

Yes we receive faith as a gift when we hear God speak to us.

We also receive the gift of faith when we hear God speak through those He sends to preach the Gospel.

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:14-17


The key is faith is by hearing God speak.

"comes" doesn't change anything.



JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

How do you know?

Because faith is by hearing, and hearing is by His rhema.


JPT

 

[OstrichSmiling]

"24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you....

...If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

25And this is what he promised us—eternal life."

1 John 2:24-25


9Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son."-2 John 1:9


The promise of eternal life is conditioned on the word remaining in you. You must continue to believe the word of God in order to continue in the Son and the Father and have eternal life.

The parable of the Prodigal son refutes your belief in transitional salvation.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Romans 10:18-19 tells us that all Israel heard but not all Israel had faith.

According to you, faith comes by hearing the word of God. So why did some Israelites not have faith? According to Rom 10:18-19, they all heard.

18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:

“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”
19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says:

“I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation,
I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”
Romans 10:18-19


Yes, and like the seed that was scattered on the path, these did not believe what they heard.


As I have explained countless times before, we have faith when we hear, the Gospel, or hear God speak, however the faith we have must be activated from it's dormant state by the corresponding action of obedience, for the faith we have to come "alive" and produce the intended divine result.


20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:20-22

• faith without [the work of obedience] works is dead?
• Was not Abraham our father justified by [obedience] works when he offered Isaac his son
• by works faith was made [complete] perfect?

The works that James is teaching us, that makes faith complete, by which it is activated to produce the intended divine result is obedience.


Not the works of the law
Not works that earn a wage
No good works whereby we are rewarded


The work that Abraham did was to obey the voice of God, to offer Isaac his son on the altar.



Paul calls this the obedience of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26



JPT

 

[NoNameMcgee]

some people are so blind....


John 11:26

“And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”

 

[OstrichSmiling]

I would suggest after 42 pages of back and forth on this one central question: What must I do to be saved? That the person who is asking that for their soul's sake read the Bible. Not this forum!

God is not a man that he should lie. Numbers 23:19

Read the Synoptic Gospels. Those are the first three books in the new testament. Matthew, Mark, Luke. Then, take God's word for it as to how to be saved. Because Jesus was God in flesh.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

God's holy spirit enters into the repentant the moment they believe in Jesus/God. Repent of your sins, meaning your life prior to realizing you can't get through the rest of your life alone; without Christ.
God knows all that you've done. He's known you before he created this world. Repentance is a process of realizing by recollection what we've done thinking our ego and self and pride could navigate our life. It is also humbling. When we live so many years before coming to repentance what we've done doesn't seem to have that much weight on our soul.
However, if we reflect on all that we've done, all that we can recall, and this can take quite awhile so do not hurry yourself, we come to recognize just how much we did wrong in light of what God calls right-eous.

You are saved the moment you believe in Christ and his dying to reunite you with the divine origin of all things. Sin, thinking the flesh and this world is all there is and living to accomplish in that realm, is what separates us from that source within us. We think material and that focus obscures our awareness of spirit.
So you don't have to fully repent in order to be saved. Repentance can take months, years even. God can guide us to remember all that we've done if we wish to repent of all things. If we wish to repent prior to being saved, we can do that. But God knows us , those who are his sheep, by name. And when we respond to his call, that pull that makes us first realize we want Christ to guide our life, we're saved. Because that is belief in Christ.

While you may repent for months, or years, remember this. God does not hold all that you recall against you anymore. The moment you are in Christ, saved, hold faith in Christ, God the Father, who was Jesus in flesh, wiped your past that you're recalling and repenting, from his memory for all time.

Before that was what made you to be dead in that realm of sin. Dead as flesh ages and decays dead. Because that is what you were living in and for. The material things. The self satisfaction and gain things. When you found your calling to Christ and responded to his awesome free irrevocable, meaning he'll never take it back, gift of salvation that he gave because of his grace and love for you, you became immortal. The flesh will age and die. But that you have reunited with the spirit inside you that was put there by God you will live for eternity united with God when you do die.

Look, people have argued what the Bible says and what it's saying means since the Bible came to print. They even argued when our faith was taught verbally, before printing.
As you can see here in this thread nothing about that has changed. People see what they believe.

But the word of God lasts for ever. Does that mean the word on the page in the Bible? No!
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Read Genesis 1. God created all things from no thing with just his word. That vibration, that tone, that became manifestation. "And God said....."

Too often dear reader who seeks the truth of God in Christ, the faithful in Christ adore and worship the Bible. When they must adore and worship the Word that created the narrative that is contained in that book.

God's many blessings light your path as you walk in the way.
Amen.
John 11:26“And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. ....

 

[justpassinthrough]

The parable of the Prodigal son refutes your belief in transitional salvation.

The parable of the prodigal son, proves that a person who is a son, can wander from the Father and become lost.


Lost = Separated from God; spiritually dead, a sinner in need of repentance in order to be reconciled to God.

Found = Justified, reconciled to God: spiritually alive to God



32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”
Luke 15:32


again


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
  
  
  

JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

some people are so blind....


John 11:26

“And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36



JPT

 

[OstrichSmiling]

 

[mailmandan]

"24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you....

...If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

25And this is what he promised us—eternal life."

1 John 2:24-25

9Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son."-2 John 1:9

The promise of eternal life is conditioned on the word remaining in you. You must continue to believe the word of God in order to continue in the Son and the Father and have eternal life.[/QUOTE] True Christians are identified by abiding (1 John 2:14, 4:15; 2 John 1:2 etc..). And if someone doesn't, if they go out, reject, deny, they went out because they were not of us, if they had been of us they would have remained with us. (1 John 2:19).

Remaining, staying, abiding is the mark of true salvation. Some people turn "abiding in Christ" into some upper level spiritual experience that only super saints do. It's not that. It means to stay or remain in the truth, in Christ. Verse 24, "As for you, let that remain in you which you heard from the beginning...if what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you will also remain in the Son and the Father." And then down in verse 27, "As for you the anointing which is the Holy Spirit which you received from Him remains in you and you have no need for anyone to teach you but as His anointing teaches you about all things and is true and is not a lie and just as it has taught you, you remain in Him."

Reading through the entire chapter of 1 John 2, we see in vs. 6 - He who says (or claims) he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. In verse 9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 10 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

So John points out that there are those who "claim" to abide, "claim" to be in the light, yet walking in darkness, hating their brother and not practicing righteousness proves otherwise. Finally in 1 John 2:29, we read - If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. Failure to practice righteousness indicates someone who is not born of Him, regardless of what they may claim. John makes this clear in 1 John 3:10. I see continuing to abide as real evidence of being a child of God. Notice how real and false believers are contrasted in this chapter.

In 2 John 1:9, we see two camps - "Those who transgress and do not abide in the doctrine of Christ and do not have God" and "those who abide in the doctrine of Christ and have both the Father and the Son."

 

[OstrichSmiling]

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36



JPT

Great passage. That in context, found here, is referring to the difference between that one who is redeemed in Christ and that one who is not and is dead in their sins and separated from Christ.

I think what is often not realized in discussions like this and due to the passion the Christian puts forth in hoping to reach others with the word is, in the beginning all Christians were unbelievers.

Jesus died to reconcile us to the father through the simple act on our part of believing in him and that sacrifice that would bring us into that free irrevocable gift of God; the covenant of divine grace that gives us eternal life, immortal life, salvation, saving, from the fate of flesh; death.

That which teaches we can lose it all if we stop believing are speaking of their own belief. And they hope to get us to agree even when the scriptures do not say that at all.

We were unbelievers first. To think all we have to do to overcome God's foreknowldge of who among us would come to his son because we responded to his call, as foretold in the words of God, by simply stopping our belief makes it a simple act to cast off everything God prophecied for us and all that Jesus died to seal within us.

We were unbelievers first!
Thinking we can stop believing and go back to who we were makes everything Jesus did and all that God said of it, false.

That would make God the liar. An humans more powerful and wise thinking we can choose to die without Christ once we answered the call of God choosing us to find him.

 

[mailmandan]

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36

JPT

I see that the word "obey" in John 3:36 (NASB) continues to confuse you into believing that salvation is by works. In John 3:36, "He that BELIEVES on the Son has everlasting life".. *Notice that this BELIEF is not in yourself, getting baptized, church attendance, or any other type of good work. Notice also that this BELIEF is not in Jesus Christ "plus something else," otherwise the BELIEF (trust, reliance) would not be "ON THE SON".

In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, obeying the Son here does not mean salvation by works, but obey by choosing to believe on the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe on the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NKJV says "does not believe the Son" and the NIV says "rejects the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely."

In the context of 3:36, to not obey the Son means to reject His message by refusing to believe on the Son.

 

[justpassinthrough]

We were unbelievers first!
Thinking we can stop believing and go back to who we were makes everything Jesus did and all that God said of it, false.

Please post the scripture that teaches us, if a person believes, then stops believing, everything Jesus did and all that God said is false.


It seems now days that people can just make up whatever they want, and because it seems to be dramatic, then they expect people to believe them.



JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

Great passage. That in context, found here, is referring to the difference between that one who is redeemed in Christ and that one who is not and is dead in their sins and separated from Christ.

I think what is often not realized in discussions like this and due to the passion the Christian puts forth in hoping to reach others with the word is, in the beginning all Christians were unbelievers.

Jesus died to reconcile us to the father through the simple act on our part of believing in him and that sacrifice that would bring us into that free irrevocable gift of God; the covenant of divine grace that gives us eternal life, immortal life, salvation, saving, from the fate of flesh; death.

That which teaches we can lose it all if we stop believing are speaking of their own belief. And they hope to get us to agree even when the scriptures do not say that at all.

We were unbelievers first. To think all we have to do to overcome God's foreknowldge of who among us would come to his son because we responded to his call, as foretold in the words of God, by simply stopping our belief makes it a simple act to cast off everything God prophecied for us and all that Jesus died to seal within us.

We were unbelievers first!
Thinking we can stop believing and go back to who we were makes everything Jesus did and all that God said of it, false.

That would make God the liar. An humans more powerful and wise thinking we can choose to die without Christ once we answered the call of God choosing us to find him.

The fact is, people who belong to God can and will become lost.




Lost = Separated from God; spiritually dead, a sinner in need of repentance in order to be reconciled to God.

Found = Justified, reconciled to God: spiritually alive to God



32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”
Luke 15:32


again


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
  
  

JPT

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes we receive faith as a gift when we hear God speak to us.

We also receive the gift of faith when we hear God speak through those He sends to preach the Gospel.

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:14-17

The key is faith is by hearing God speak.

"comes" doesn't change anything.

Look at Romans 10:16:

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"​

The word "obeyed" is the Greek word hypakoúō derived from the Greek words hypó ("under") and akoúō ("hear").

So "all" heard the gospel. However, not all believed.

Why did they not believe if (according to you) "If we have faith, it's because God spoken to us, moved upon us, inspired us by communicating with us"?

You are saying that God withholds faith from some who hear and gives faith to others who hear. What is the criteria for God giving faith to some and not others?

 

[gb9]

The fact is, people who belong to God can and will become lost.




Lost = Separated from God; spiritually dead, a sinner in need of repentance in order to be reconciled to God.

Found = Justified, reconciled to God: spiritually alive to God



32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”
Luke 15:32


again


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
  

JPT

in that culture, when the son asked his father for his share of his inheritance , he effectively told his father " I wish you were dead ".

so, it is safe to say that due to the son saying what he said, then taking the money and leaving the country, the father felt like his son was dead.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

How do you know?

Because faith is by hearing, and hearing is by His rhema.

Or it could be because God gives faith to all and those who are weak in faith are those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... i.e. they do not believe (not because they don't have faith but because they reject the truth).

On the other hand, those who are strong in faith are those who believe God's Word. They are obedient to the instruction and their faith is increased (strengthened).