Did Jesus Have The Human Sinful Nature?

[CS1]

I see the sinful nature as being the whole man ruled by the soul. The spirit cannot rule because it is alienated from GOD.

Jesus is not limited that way . HE said No man take my life I lay it don freely and I have the POWER to take it back again.

John 10:18

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

[CS1]

look at it from the view of adoption. when we adopt a child, that child now is viewed as someone within our lineage and heritage [blood or not]. kind of the same with marriage. a person marries into the heritage of their spouses family. Yeshua, 100% God, was adopted into the lineage of David by the fact Mary and Joseph were His human parents, not biological parents.

and adopted son has all rights as nature Born child Praise the LORD

 

[GodisONE]

and adopted son has all rights as nature Born child Praise the LORD

AMEN!!

 

[trofimus]

now look at this scripture carefully. many times people take scripture as literal and it messes them up. this scripture speaks volumes of TRUTH.

first of all, before Yeshua was ever the priest of Abraham (Melchizedek), the person with 2 angels who Abram saw before the fall of Sodom and Ghomorrow, the A (capital A) Angel of God/Lord who appeared to Ishmael's mother, appeared to Joshua, the Burning Bush (THESE ARE ALL APPEARANCES OF YESHUA BEFORE WE KNEW HIM AS YESHUA)…before any of those appearances and then as Christ...this verse makes it clear the WORD was the Spirit Invisible GOD [Yahweh] who became flesh and dwelt among us.

when we think about the WORD, look at it like this...when Yahweh speaks a command...it's His WORD that does the ACTION (like creation). SO, when the WORD became FLESH [Yeshua said in John 14 I am not doing these things but the Father INSIDE ME is doing them] (or another words) Yahweh speaks and Yeshua Yahweh's WORD that became flesh is DOING THE ACTION. this makes them THE SAME BEING.

it is why Paul in Colossians claimed Yeshua is the VISIBLE IMAGE to the INVISIBLE GOD...because...the INVISIBLE GOD SPEAKS...the WORD who is the visible flesh DOES THE ACTION.


one of these days you will understand that scripture IS NOT ALWAYS LITERAL. until then, I will pray for you!!

I understand that scripture is not always literal, but I have a problem seeing your logical consistency in how you choose that J 1 is not literal and something else is literal.

Or why do you think that J1 is not literal in the first place. Your preconcieved beliefs? Or something in the text itself?

 

[trofimus]

Do you believe Adam needed saving before he sinned?

I believe he needed a transformation from animal body to spiritual body. The tree of life would probably do that.

Do you believe all human beings need salvation, or only those who have willfully sinned?

I think that all human beings need to be born again to have eternal life. But thats probably not your question.

If you ask about unborn children and similar, whether they all have eternal life - I do not know.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

b

What page are you getting your info from? I couldn't read the images, but I found the book online. So far I'm not seeing what you're talking about. Instead I read this:

“For the humanity of Jesus was not the humanity of sinful human beings, but the humanity possessed by Adam and Eve from their creation and before their fall.“​

 

[trofimus]

I see the sinful nature as being the whole man ruled by the soul. The spirit cannot rule because it is alienated from GOD.

I think that soul is a special connection of spirit from God and "animal" body from earth... Soul is, therefore, nothing automatically wrong or good, it depends whether it is governed by the body or by the spirit.

When the NT uses "soulish people" as a negative notation, I think its meant to say that such people are thinking on low things, ignoring spiritual ones, i.e. a synonym for "animal people" or "fleshy people".

 

[CS1]

But for that to be true Jesus would have had to be created new from the dust of the ground like Adam. Instead He was descended from a human. Therefore He had to have been tainted by Adams sin in His body.

No that is not correct remember Even in death The word of God says God would not let HIS Holy One see Corruption

Acts 13:33-37
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. 35Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

David is dead Jesus is not David is bones waiting the resurrection Jesus is THE RESURRECTION

 

[GodisONE]

I understand that scripture is not always literal, but I have a problem seeing your logical consistency in how you choose that J 1 is not literal and something else is literal.

Or why do you think that J1 is not literal in the first place. Your preconcieved beliefs? Or something in the text itself?

I do not LIMIT GOD like trinitarians do, to begin with. when I understand that God is omnipresent and CAN DO ALL THINGS, I understand that the WORD means something SPOKEN. and like myself when I speak on my job, my word is a command for those under me to do the ACTION. but in this sense, I understand Yahweh speaks and His WORD [Yeshua] does what is told (action).

and Yeshua proved this in John 14 when He said, the things I do and say are NOT MY OWN words and doing, but the Father who lives inside me is doing. this is as clear as it gets that YAHWEH speaks and His WORD [Yeshua] does what is spoken.

now, are my words and myself the SAME or different?
they are the SAME.

just like Yahweh and His WORD [Yeshua] are the SAME!! it's just as God, Yahweh made His own WORD to be flesh to die for us and to give us an example how we are to live as believers!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

why are you attacking another denomination?
The deity of Christ is not aog doctrine it is the foundational truth of Christianity. Jesus is God and had no sin. This has nothing to do with anything other then the post position . IF one thinks Jesus had sinned, or did sin, then HE was not perfect . And we are not saved. I'm shocked of those who would argue against the fundamental Biblical Truth. And it is error at the minim and anti-christ teaching .

HE said he's getting his material from that book, i.e., that Jesus had a sinful nature. I want to read it to see if that's what it's actually saying

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I see nothing in that systematic theology book that says Jesus had a sinful nature. This paragraph explains that Jesus labored under the curse of sin, but was in no way sinful himself.

"Another issue that could be raised here is the extent of​

Jesus’ participation in our human condition. The curse on​

Adam that resulted from his rebellion against God is recorded​

in Genesis 3:17-19. The curse seems to have three compo-​

nents: ( 1) a curse on the ground, (2) labor by human beings​

to provide food, and (3)physical death. Notice that Jesus​

participated in all of these in the days of His flesh. The curse​

on the ground was not lifted for Jesus; He worked as a car-​

penter; He ate food; and most significant, He died. In His​

humanity, Jesus participated in the nonmoral results of sin​

(Adam and Eve’s) without becoming sinful himself. This​

understanding is in harmony with several important Scripture​

verses on the subject (e.g., 2 Cot. 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:22)."​

 

[CS1]

HE said he's getting his material from that book, i.e., that Jesus had a sinful nature. I want to read it to see if that's what it's actually saying

That is not my point

this context of

1. Did Jesus have the human sinful nature
2. Is Jesus God

are not far off from each other really.

Pride prevents us from accepting we cannot fully comprehend the full Nature of God.
How can Jesus be fully man and fully God? Because that is what we see in the word of God.
The eternal existence of Christ is biblical before His incarnation Christ has always existed. HE is the Alpha and Omega.
Jesus received his human body as it was formed in the womb of mary which in scripture shows us HE came by way as all babies born the normal 9 months give or take.

the Big Difference is Man did not have anything to do with Jesus being born God i the one who impregnated Mary by the Holy Spirit.
Only perverted , humanistic , and carnal minded people would read into this sexual relation. God is not Flesh. But HE became flesh by way of the mother egg but the life was from HIS father.
Adam or sinful man was not in the context of fathering Jesus The Holy Spirit was.
God is HIS Father , God is Holy without sin therefore so is Jesus.

 

[CS1]

I do not LIMIT GOD like trinitarians do, to begin with. when I understand that God is omnipresent and CAN DO ALL THINGS, I understand that the WORD means something SPOKEN. and like myself when I speak on my job, my word is a command for those under me to do the ACTION. but in this sense, I understand Yahweh speaks and His WORD [Yeshua] does what is told (action).

and Yeshua proved this in John 14 when He said, the things I do and say are NOT MY OWN words and doing, but the Father who lives inside me is doing. this is as clear as it gets that YAHWEH speaks and His WORD [Yeshua] does what is spoken.

now, are my words and myself the SAME or different?
they are the SAME.

just like Yahweh and His WORD [Yeshua] are the SAME!! it's just as God, Yahweh made His own WORD to be flesh to die for us and to give us an example how we are to live as believers!!

How does trinitarians limit God?

 

[GodisONE]

How does trinitarians limit God?

since they cannot understand what the true meaning of what the/a WORD means...as in something that is SPOKEN...their lack of understanding has created 3 persons, instead of ONE God as ONE person and His Word and Holy Spirit.

a trinitarian therefore limits God by lack of reasoning skills.

 

[CS1]

since they cannot understand what the true meaning of what the/a WORD means...as in something that is SPOKEN...their lack of understanding has created 3 persons, instead of ONE God as ONE person and His Word and Holy Spirit.

a trinitarian therefore limits God by lack of reasoning skills.

That is an opinion but that is not the concept of the Trinity . "Created" and Trinity are not synonymous with each other . trinitarians do not believe in the creation of the Godhead. They believe The Godhead has always existed in a coequal personification of God the Father, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Only the oneness doctrine has created Three modes of Jesus or manifestations of Jesus . Like three created rolls to act.

That is error and unbiblical

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That is not my point

this context of

1. Did Jesus have the human sinful nature
2. Is Jesus God

are not far off from each other really.

Pride prevents us from accepting we cannot fully comprehend the full Nature of God.
How can Jesus be fully man and fully God? Because that is what we see in the word of God.
The eternal existence of Christ is biblical before His incarnation Christ has always existed. HE is the Alpha and Omega.
Jesus received his human body as it was formed in the womb of mary which in scripture shows us HE came by way as all babies born the normal 9 months give or take.

the Big Difference is Man did not have anything to do with Jesus being born God i the one who impregnated Mary by the Holy Spirit.
Only perverted , humanistic , and carnal minded people would read into this sexual relation. God is not Flesh. But HE became flesh by way of the mother egg but the life was from HIS father.
Adam or sinful man was not in the context of fathering Jesus The Holy Spirit was.
God is HIS Father , God is Holy without sin therefore so is Jesus.

For nearly 800 posts the OP has been arguing that Christ had a sinful nature, an idea he says he got from a book he's reading. I'm reading it right now. It does not say that. It talks about Christ having an essential humanity that was like Adam's before he sinned.

These two passages insist on the identity of Jesus’ temp-​

tations with our own. This insistence must be given its due​

in the understanding of Christ’s humanity that we formulate.​

Millard Erickson has brought forth a modern rendition of​

incarnational theology in which he attempts to solve the prob-​

lem of Christ’s human nature in the hypostatic union. He​

believes that the answer lies in seeing Jesus’ humanity as ideal​

humanity, or humanity as it will be. In other words, meth-​

odologically, we do not begin with the acute difIiculty of​

God’s becoming a man with all the qualitative differences​

between the divine and human natures. Erickson wishes to​

begin instead with essential humanity (i.e., what God origi-​

nally created), because, presumably, it is much more like God​

than the fallen humanity we observe today. “For the humanity​

of Jesus was not the humanity of sinful human beings, but​

the humanity possessed by Adam and Eve from their creation​

and before their fall.“​

 

[Chuckyz2]

Being born into sin means...
Being born into a world that Satan is the ruler.
Jesus did not have a sinful nature.
He had God Spirit always save the moment on the cross when He said...
Father why has though forsaken me.
Jesus felt no temptation any more than I would if someone asked me to jump into a fire.
I would be like, "Are you nuts"
It would be like asking if God could be tempted. Seriously. its a no brainer.

 

[GodisONE]

That is an opinion but that is not the concept of the Trinity . "Created" and Trinity are not synonymous with each other . trinitarians do not believe in the creation of the Godhead. They believe The Godhead has always existed in a coequal personification of God the Father, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit.

I did not use created.

I used the example if what I said has life, then my words are either killing others or causing them to live.

but God does have the power to make His own WORD become flesh. but that does not mean when His WORD is flesh that God and His WORD are now separate entities. this is why Yeshua made that clear in John 14 that He is not doing these things but Yahweh inside Him is doing them. this is the best and perfect example of God speaking and His WORD doing what is being spoken. but it does not make them 2 beings. they, God and His WORD are ONE and the SAME!!



and when you cannot understand this and limit God to 3 people, it means your own reasoning about God is limiting God. because you cannot go beyond your own understanding to think God is not capable of doing exactly what you cannot understand.

 

[CS1]

For nearly 800 posts the OP has been arguing that Christ had a sinful nature, an idea he says he got from a book he's reading. I'm reading it right now. It does not say that. It talks about Christ having an essential humanity that was like Adam's before he sinned.

These two passages insist on the identity of Jesus’ temp-​

tations with our own. This insistence must be given its due​

in the understanding of Christ’s humanity that we formulate.​

Millard Erickson has brought forth a modern rendition of​

incarnational theology in which he attempts to solve the prob-​

lem of Christ’s human nature in the hypostatic union. He​

believes that the answer lies in seeing Jesus’ humanity as ideal​

humanity, or humanity as it will be. In other words, meth-​

odologically, we do not begin with the acute difIiculty of​

God’s becoming a man with all the qualitative differences​

between the divine and human natures. Erickson wishes to​

begin instead with essential humanity (i.e., what God origi-​

nally created), because, presumably, it is much more like God​

than the fallen humanity we observe today. “For the humanity​

of Jesus was not the humanity of sinful human beings, but​

the humanity possessed by Adam and Eve from their creation​

and before their fall.“​

I understand that. What mr. Millard might want to consider is what Jesus gave UP to become flesh. When we understand that Jesus
will for eternality have that Body. This is what Jesus gave up HIS Omni-Presence because of the body HE willfully took on in the Likeness of sinful man. HE did not have unlimited Power, Knowing, and Authority . HE gave up for US so HE could be like us for ever without sin AS HE desires us to be AND Made it Possible In HIM.

 

[CS1]

I did not use created.

I used the example if what I said has life, then my words are either killing others or causing them to live.

but God does have the power to make His own WORD become flesh. but that does not mean when His WORD is flesh that God and His WORD are now separate entities. this is why Yeshua made that clear in John 14 that He is not doing these things but Yahweh inside Him is doing them. this is the best and perfect example of God speaking and His WORD doing what is being spoken. but it does not make them 2 beings. they, God and His WORD are ONE and the SAME!!



and when you cannot understand this and create 3 people, it means your own reasoning about God is limiting God. because you cannot go beyond your own understanding to think God is not capable of doing exactly what you cannot understand.

"since they cannot understand what the true meaning of what the/a WORD means...as in something that is SPOKEN...their lack of understanding has created 3 persons, instead of ONE God as ONE person and His Word and Holy Spirit."

Jesus is the word made Flesh John Gospel tells us that
We See God as the father = of Creation , Jesus as the very expression =Word and the Holy Spirit who is confirming the word in the earth as we see in Gen 1 and in John Gospel.