Why so much confusion about salvation?

[mailmandan]

1Thess. 1:3

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith,and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Notice the words "work of" faith, "labor of" love and "patience of" hope in 1 Thessalonians 1:3. These are the practical outworking of the Thessalonians' conversion.

The "work" the Thessalonians do is a result or consequence of their faith. So too their "labor" flows from love and their "endurance" comes from hope. Work "of" faith does not mean that faith in essence is the work accomplished.

Their work is a result or consequence "of" their faith. The work done is "of" faith or done "out of" faith. Faith was already established at conversion and then the work followed as a result or consequence "of" their faith.

Are you trying to turn work "of" faith into this work "is" faith? You don’t seem to make a distinction between faith “and” works that “follow” as a result of faith and the end result of that is salvation by faith + works. We are saved through faith, not works.

So faith is not just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works.

 

[carl11]

We are saved through faith, not works.

So faith is not just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works.

Whose faith are we talking about is it our faith or would it be the faith of Christ. What about the profession of faith you do realize or maybe not that this to is a work albeit the reformers would deny it altogether but yet it is a work.

 

[mailmandan]

Whose faith are we talking about is it our faith or would it be the faith of Christ. What about the profession of faith you do realize or maybe not that this to is a work albeit the reformers would deny it altogether but yet it is a work.

1 Peter 1:9 - receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. It's our faith. Although the approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father (John 6:44,65) He doesn't force us to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation. *We must choose to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation* once we are drawn and it has been granted him/enabled to do so.

Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.. (KJV).
Numerous other translations say faith in Jesus Christ (ASV, ESV, NKJV, NASB, NIV, NRSV, RSV). A distinction without a difference.

So what work is accomplished? By choosing to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption) to save us. *Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow" and are produced "out of" faith. Once again, faith is faith and works are works (Ephesians 2:8,9).

 

[carl11]

1 Peter 1:9 - receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. It's our faith. Although the approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father (John 6:44,65) He doesn't force us to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation. *We must choose to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation* once we are drawn and it has been granted him/enabled to do so.

Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.. (KJV).
Numerous other translations say faith in Jesus Christ (ASV, ESV, NKJV, NASB, NIV, NRSV, RSV). A distinction without a difference.

So what work is accomplished? By choosing to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption) to save us. *Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow" and are produced "out of" faith. Once again, faith is faith and works are works (Ephesians 2:8,9).

Where did you get the faith to put into Christ knowing full well before anybody has ever become saved we are typified as a dead stinking corpse with no life.

 

[Noblemen]

I believe most of us would agree that there is a great deal of confusion about salvation, even though God has made it very simple.

The primary reason for all this confusion is the enmity of Satan and his evil angels against God and against humanity. The Devil desires all human being to go to Hell, since he knows it was created for him and his angels.

There is really no need to be confused when we take the total Gospel message and simply believe it. When someone comes along with another gospel, we should ask them a few questions, to which all the answers are "Yes" (according to Scripture):

1. Did Christ die for the sins of the whole world?

2. Does God desire the salvation of all humanity?

3. Are repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ sufficient to be saved?

4. Is water baptism only for believers and is it a command to every Christian?

5. Does baptism signify that the sinner has died to self and sin, and is totally submitted to God?

6. Is eternal life God's gift to the one who believes?

7. Is the Holy Spirit God's gift to the one who believes?

8. Does salvation include the New Birth, which means that the individual is a new creature in Christ?

10. Are believers predestined and elected to be perfected and glorified?

11. Does that mean that Christians must forsake the ways of the world, and walk in the Spirit by faith?

12. Does salvation include justification, sanctification, and glorification, and are Christians kept by the power of God unto the completion of this salvation?

I agree with most of what you say, but wait repentance-baptism for salvation-died to self-submitted to God, I don't know about all that now.

 

[mailmandan]

Where did you get the faith to put into Christ knowing full well before anybody has ever become saved we are typified as a dead stinking corpse with no life.

Romans 10:17 - So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Ephesians 2:5 - even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I agree with most of what you say, but wait repentance-baptism for salvation-died to self-submitted to God, I don't know about all that now.

Kindly read and study Romans chapter 6.

 

[Noblemen]

Kindly read and study Romans chapter 6.

Bad answer, I'll break it down to one "dieing to self" now how exactly does this work? If you will.

 

[Latour]

The crux of the matter is one of the differences between Armenianism and Calvinism, point 5. Who is right?

Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace

There is a measure of truth in every point.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Bad answer, I'll break it down to one "dieing to self" now how exactly does this work? If you will.

1. GOD AND JESUS FIRST
2. OTHERS SECOND
3. SELF THIRD

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I believe most of us would agree that there is a great deal of confusion about salvation, even though God has made it very simple.

The primary reason for all this confusion is the enmity of Satan and his evil angels against God and against humanity. The Devil desires all human being to go to Hell, since he knows it was created for him and his angels.

There is really no need to be confused when we take the total Gospel message and simply believe it. When someone comes along with another gospel, we should ask them a few questions, to which all the answers are "Yes" (according to Scripture):

1. Did Christ die for the sins of the whole world?

2. Does God desire the salvation of all humanity?

3. Are repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ sufficient to be saved?

4. Is water baptism only for believers and is it a command to every Christian?

5. Does baptism signify that the sinner has died to self and sin, and is totally submitted to God?

6. Is eternal life God's gift to the one who believes?

7. Is the Holy Spirit God's gift to the one who believes?

8. Does salvation include the New Birth, which means that the individual is a new creature in Christ?

10. Are believers predestined and elected to be perfected and glorified?

11. Does that mean that Christians must forsake the ways of the world, and walk in the Spirit by faith?

12. Does salvation include justification, sanctification, and glorification, and are Christians kept by the power of God unto the completion of this salvation?

This is a test,in which,if you grade my paper, you will flunk me, 1, No, 2. No. 3. No. 4. Yes, but very few comply. 5. No 6. Yes, but believing is not the cause of eternal life. 7. No, it the other way around, believing is after the new birth. 8. Yes,eternal salvation does. 10. No, they were elected and predestined before they believed. 11. Yes,we are instructed,but, No, no man can totally do it. 12. Yes. If you want scriptures for my answers, Just ask.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

We do have to repent Jesus told us to count the cost.

that is exactly what it is, but it is much more than the things you have mentioned, it is your everlasting life in paradise instead of everlasting torment in hell. And YES, it is FREE!

 

[ForestGreenCook]

We do have to repent Jesus told us to count the cost.

If it was left up to us to repentance, none would make it to heaven. We are all born into this world as natural beings, and until God puts his Spirit within us and gives us a new heart, we would never have repented, according to 1 Cor 2:14 because the natural man will not, and indeed, can not understand God, or his spiritual law.

 

[theanointedsinner]

in short, confusion happens because we fail to properly handle problems ...

from the day that the Christian is saved

the sense of "purity", "innocence" and "being saved" is enjoyable
and there's hope that it's preserved somehow

when what we perceive as "unintentional sin" happened, and we fall into sin
even if we are forgiven, we don't trust our own heart, and we feel awkward about this

I believe a lot of problems stems from the fact that we don't know how to reconcile with the fact that our own hearts are untrustworthy.

so, what are some ways to reconcile with the fact that our own hearts are untrustworthy?

I believe this is the answer: no matter how untrustworthy our hearts may be, Jesus died for us

so we can trust that God loves us, and this does not depend on the condition of our hearts


1 John 3:20
New Living Translation
Even if we feel guilty, God is greater than our feelings, and he knows everything.

English Standard Version
for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

 

[Noblemen]

1. GOD AND JESUS FIRST
2. OTHERS SECOND
3. SELF THIRD

? Pardon me but I dont really see what you are getting at. I know there is no scripture for dieing to self, I know there is a big theology behind the thought.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I know there is no scripture for dieing to self...

Since you are clearly mistaken, perhaps you should study the matter again. There are plenty of Scriptures.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

I believe most of us would agree that there is a great deal of confusion about salvation, even though God has made it very simple.

The primary reason for all this confusion is the enmity of Satan and his evil angels against God and against humanity. The Devil desires all human being to go to Hell, since he knows it was created for him and his angels.

There is really no need to be confused when we take the total Gospel message and simply believe it. When someone comes along with another gospel, we should ask them a few questions, to which all the answers are "Yes" (according to Scripture):

1. Did Christ die for the sins of the whole world?

2. Does God desire the salvation of all humanity?

3. Are repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ sufficient to be saved?

4. Is water baptism only for believers and is it a command to every Christian?

5. Does baptism signify that the sinner has died to self and sin, and is totally submitted to God?

6. Is eternal life God's gift to the one who believes?

7. Is the Holy Spirit God's gift to the one who believes?

8. Does salvation include the New Birth, which means that the individual is a new creature in Christ?

10. Are believers predestined and elected to be perfected and glorified?

11. Does that mean that Christians must forsake the ways of the world, and walk in the Spirit by faith?

12. Does salvation include justification, sanctification, and glorification, and are Christians kept by the power of God unto the completion of this salvation?

It's just as Jesus, Emmanuel, Yeshuah, prophesied. There would come false teachers that would boast they'd done miracles, and saw Christ here or there, and would bring forth false doctrine and after the Lord had returned to the Father. And we were warned not to believe them.
But we do. And we align ourselves in their name first, which is a real tragedy. We call ourselves denominational Christians. "I'm a Methodist Christian", "I'm a seventh day adventist Christian", and so forth.

Jesus suffered unimaginable torture. He was nailed naked to a cross, he died, he was laid to rest in a donated tomb, and he did as he promised he would do days before. He arose and walked free of death. And continued his ministry for 40 days. It was accomplished. He became the propitiation for the sins of the world. And all we need do is believe. That's our job. That's all it takes for us to do. When he did it all over 2000 years ago.
Then we receive the holy spirit because we are regenerated as a new creation that is not dead in our sins but are alive in him.

When humans think they can encapsulate God into their doctrine that's blasphemy. But that's the way of the world that proved due to that it needs saving.

And so it does.

 

[preston39]

If it was left up to us to repentance, none would make it to heaven. We are all born into this world as natural beings, and until God puts his Spirit within us and gives us a new heart, we would never have repented, according to 1 Cor 2:14 because the natural man will not, and indeed, can not understand God, or his spiritual law.

F....,
Dangling participles!!!!!!

 

[OstrichSmiling]

F....,
Dangling participles!!!!!!

 

[preston39]

Since you are clearly mistaken, perhaps you should study the matter again. There are plenty of Scriptures.

N...,

Problem with clarity...please explain and reference scriptures..."dieing to self".
You have a chance before the conclusion that this is ..."new age religion stuff"....and assessment to be made.