Why a true believer won't abuse the fact that he cannot lose salvation.

[LW97]

Are you somebody who believes salvation IF acchieved can be lost. You believe that eternal security (John 10:27-30, 1 Corinthians 1:8, Jude 24) is gonna cause people to sin more? I think not. this brings up another point regarding your “license for immorality” accusation. You think that if Christians don’t believe his unique doctrine, they will have a “license for immorality,” and they will thus dive fearlessly into sin. You miss the fact that true Christians don’t want to sin because they are born again and love God, and no true Christian is looking for licenses to sin. One wonders who these Christians are whom you are so concerned about, Christians who are wanting to sin with impunity. There are no such Christians, that is, true Christians. Certainly, true Christians do stumble into sin, but stumbling implies an unintentional fall. Christians are not rebels against God, as are the unsaved, who are practicing sin with no regard to God.

I believe in the eternal security of the true believer and in the the infernal insecurity of the make-believer (make-believers are those who prayed the sinners prayer, but never humbled themselves before the Lord).

 

[OstrichSmiling]

Good post.
Those who are in Christ do not sin. That's willful sin. When we do make mistakes we repent of them in our hearts because we know what we did was wrong. Those wrongs are covered by the blood of Christ. We are no longer sinners dead in our trespasses as we were before coming into God's grace and redemption and rebirth.

SINNER

sin'-er (chaTTa; hamartolos, "devoted to sin," "erring one"):

In the New Testament, in addition to its ordinary significance of one that sins (Luke 5:8; 13:2; Romans 5:8,19; 1 Timothy 1:15; Hebrews 7:26), the term is applied to those who lived in disregard of ceremonial prescription (Matthew 9:10,11; Mark 2:15; Luke 5:30; Galatians 2:15); to those stained with certain definite vices or crimes, as the publicans (Luke 15:2; 18:13; 19:7); to the heathen (Matthew 26:45; Galatians 2:15; compare Tobit 13:6; 1 Macc 1:34; 2 Macc 2:48,62); to the preeminently sinful (Mark 8:38; John 9:24,31; Galatians 2:17; 1 Timothy 1:9; Jude 1:15). It was the Jewish term for a woman of ill-fame (Luke 7:37; compare Matthew 21:32, where it is stated that such had come even to John's baptism also). For the general Biblical conception of the term, see SIN.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” John 6:66-67

 

[OstrichSmiling]

From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” John 6:66-67

You know why that happened?

Because no one can come to Christ except the Father calls them. Those who are not called do not stay in Christ. Those who are in Christ, even if they backslide, walk away for a time, are still his when they were first called by the Father. All of John 6

 

[LW97]

Good post.
Those who are in Christ do not sin. That's willful sin. When we do make mistakes we repent of them in our hearts because we know what we did was wrong. Those wrongs are covered by the blood of Christ. We are no longer sinners dead in our trespasses as we were before coming into God's grace and redemption and rebirth.

SINNER

sin'-er (chaTTa; hamartolos, "devoted to sin," "erring one"):

In the New Testament, in addition to its ordinary significance of one that sins (Luke 5:8; 13:2; Romans 5:8,19; 1 Timothy 1:15; Hebrews 7:26), the term is applied to those who lived in disregard of ceremonial prescription (Matthew 9:10,11; Mark 2:15; Luke 5:30; Galatians 2:15); to those stained with certain definite vices or crimes, as the publicans (Luke 15:2; 18:13; 19:7); to the heathen (Matthew 26:45; Galatians 2:15; compare Tobit 13:6; 1 Macc 1:34; 2 Macc 2:48,62); to the preeminently sinful (Mark 8:38; John 9:24,31; Galatians 2:17; 1 Timothy 1:9; Jude 1:15). It was the Jewish term for a woman of ill-fame (Luke 7:37; compare Matthew 21:32, where it is stated that such had come even to John's baptism also). For the general Biblical conception of the term, see SIN.

Amen and amen!

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

You know why that happened?

Because no one can come to Christ except the Father calls them. Those who are not called do not stay in Christ. Those who are in Christ, even if they backslide, walk away for a time, are still his when they were first called by the Father. All of John 6

You know why that happened?

Because no one can come to Christ except the Father calls them. Those who are not called do not stay in Christ. Those who are in Christ, even if they backslide, walk away for a time, are still his when they were first called by the Father. All of John 6

John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood, you have no life in you," presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" (John 6:66). It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you.

John 6:66 - From that time many of His Disciples went back, and walk no more with Him.

JSM

 

[pjharrison]

1 cor: 5:5 says, Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns.
This is what happens to someone that is saved, and won't stop sinning consciously.

 

[OneFaith]

Are you somebody who believes salvation IF acchieved can be lost. You believe that eternal security (John 10:27-30, 1 Corinthians 1:8, Jude 24) is gonna cause people to sin more? I think not. this brings up another point regarding your “license for immorality” accusation. You think that if Christians don’t believe his unique doctrine, they will have a “license for immorality,” and they will thus dive fearlessly into sin. You miss the fact that true Christians don’t want to sin because they are born again and love God, and no true Christian is looking for licenses to sin. One wonders who these Christians are whom you are so concerned about, Christians who are wanting to sin with impunity. There are no such Christians, that is, true Christians. Certainly, true Christians do stumble into sin, but stumbling implies an unintentional fall. Christians are not rebels against God, as are the unsaved, who are practicing sin with no regard to God.

I believe in the eternal security of the true believer and in the the infernal insecurity of the make-believer (make-believers are those who prayed the sinners prayer, but never humbled themselves before the Lord).

1) You cannot (truthfully) say that if a Christian believes it is possible to lose salvation that they are not a true believer. I believe with all my heart, mind, and soul in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. So much so that I spent my life serving Him, and am even willing to die a torturous death for Him if needs be. Do not tell me I do not truly believe 100%.

2) I agree that no true christian will use Christ's blood as a license to sin- because they would no longer be a Christian. "Christian" is present-tense. There are some who genuinely were christians but are no longer. Because in order to be a christian you have to be currently in Christ. If His blood is taken away from you because you live in sin (not just visit sin) then you are no longer in Christ. "But if you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins." (No longer means there once genuinely did).

3) No where in the bible does it say we are saved by a sinner's prayer, or that a prayer puts us in Christ. The bible says we are baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3). Paul seen the Light on the road to Damascus. He believed, he prayed, he was prayed for, he fasted, he had his eyes healed by the power of God. Yet none of these things put him in Christ / saved him / washed away his sins. Ananias said to Paul "What are you waiting for? Arise, be baptised and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

4) Stumble does not imply unintentional. "He who knows the good he ought to do yet chooses not to do it, sins." When we stumble we are at fault, it was not an accident. But there is a difference between sinning in the moment we are tempted, and purposely going out looking to sin- that is sinning willfully, and if we sin willfully Christ's blood will no longer wash away our sins, we are then no longer in Christ, but we can come back and be safe once again if we repent of living in sin (premeditated without goal and effort to stop sinning).

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood, you have no life in you," presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" (John 6:66). It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you.

John 6:66 - From that time many of His Disciples went back, and walk no more with Him.

JSM

Please note: Jesus called these people Disciples, which means they were saved, but now they are unsaved...they walk no more with Him and have no more life (The Holy Spirit) in them.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood, you have no life in you," presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" (John 6:66). It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you.

John 6:66 - From that time many of His Disciples went back, and walk no more with Him.

JSM

You believe in the cross?

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

You believe in the cross?

The Cross of Calvary where the victory was won...YES! The Cross is the same as the Blood of Jesus and the Finished Work of Christ.

 

[pjharrison]

Please note: Jesus called these people Disciples, which means they were saved, but now they are unsaved...they walk no more with Him and have no more life (The Holy Spirit) in them.

They were not saved. If they were they would have stayed. They didn't understand that Jesus was talking about spiritual food. John 6: 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

They were not saved. If they were they would have stayed. They didn't understand that Jesus was talking about spiritual food. John 6: 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

Are you that saying Jesus made a mistake by calling them Disciples?

 

[OstrichSmiling]

Please note: Jesus called these people Disciples, which means they were saved, but now they are unsaved...they walk no more with Him and have no more life (The Holy Spirit) in them.

They were never saved. That's why Jesus said they left because they were not one with us.

 

[pjharrison]

Are you that saying Jesus made a mistake by calling them Disciples?

No he did not make a mistake. This the definition of a disciple: a follower or student of a teacher, leader, or philosopher.
They were only students that didn't want to learn anymore.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

They were never saved. That's why Jesus said they left because they were not one with us.

If Jesus Christ called these people Disciples, they were saved. What is your biblical meaning of a Disciple of Christ Jesus?

 

[LW97]

1) You cannot (truthfully) say that if a Christian believes it is possible to lose salvation that they are not a true believer.

I did not say that

 

[LW97]

1 John 2:19

 

[OstrichSmiling]

1 John 2:19

The Mounce version is very good I think at informing that verse in the Greek.

 

[shrume]

You know why that happened?

Because no one can come to Christ except the Father calls them. Those who are not called do not stay in Christ. Those who are in Christ, even if they backslide, walk away for a time, are still his when they were first called by the Father. All of John 6

God is calling all men. He want's all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4). He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9).