YOKE OF BONDAGE

[Dan_473]

I see your point. Abraham could have rejected God's Word's anytime he thought they were too burdensome for Him and he would still be justified in your religion.

I understand the Preaching, I just don't believe that was what God had the example of Abraham's faithfulness towards God written for us.

Genesis 20: 1. Abraham traveled from there toward the land of the South, and lived between Kadesh and Shur. He lived as a foreigner in Gerar. 2. Abraham said about Sarah his wife, "She is my sister." Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah. 3. But God came to Abimelech in a dream of the night, and said to him, "Behold, you are a dead man, because of the woman whom you have taken. For she is a man's wife." 4. Now Abimelech had not come near her. He said, "Lord, will you kill even a righteous nation? 5. Didn't he tell me, 'She is my sister?' She, even she herself, said, 'He is my brother.' In the integrity of my heart and the innocence of my hands have I done this." 6. God said to him in the dream, "Yes, I know that in the integrity of your heart you have done this, and I also withheld you from sinning against me. Therefore I didn't allow you to touch her. 7. Now therefore, restore the man's wife. For he is a prophet, and he will pray for you, and you will live. If you don't restore her, know for sure that you will die, you, and all who are yours." 8. Abimelech rose early in the morning, and called all his servants, and told all these things in their ear. The men were very scared. 9. Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said to him, "What have you done to us? How have I sinned against you, that you have brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? You have done deeds to me that ought not to be done!" 10. Abimelech said to Abraham, "What did you see, that you have done this thing?" 11. Abraham said, "Because I thought, 'Surely the fear of God is not in this place. They will kill me for my wife's sake.' 12. Besides, she is indeed my sister, the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. 13. It happened, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said to her, 'This is your kindness which you shall show to me. Everywhere that we go, say of me, "He is my brother."'" 14. Abimelech took sheep and cattle, male servants and female servants, and gave them to Abraham, and restored Sarah, his wife, to him. 15. Abimelech said, "Behold, my land is before you. Dwell where it pleases you." 16. To Sarah he said, "Behold, I have given your brother a thousand pieces of silver. Behold, it is for you a covering of the eyes to all that are with you. In front of all you are vindicated." 17. Abraham prayed to God. God healed Abimelech, and his wife, and his female servants, and they bore children. 18. For the Lord had closed up tight all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah, Abraham's wife.

Abraham does reject God's commandment here, in as much as he would have understood God's ways here
Matthew 7: 12. Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

Abimelech says "You have done deeds to me that ought not to be done!"

the above story takes place after Abraham is declared righteous. But he pulled the same stunt earlier before being declared righteous. so I agree that in general Abraham lived according to God's ways, but not always.

therefore he is being declared righteous is not based upon his keeping Commandments, but upon believing.

did Abraham act the way he did because he thought God's ways were burdensome? Possibly, though I think it was more just fear.
having been declared righteous, he ought to have tried to live God's right way. and he did try.

Abraham was human. so was Adam, and so am I. Abraham was declared righteous because he believed God's promise, I am declared righteous because I believe that Jesus died for my sins and rose again.

 

[Dan_473]

At one time we too acted like fools. We didn’t obey God. We were tricked. We were controlled by all kinds of desires and pleasures. We were full of evil. We wanted what belongs to others. People hated us, and we hated one another. 4 But the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared. 5 He saved us. It wasn’t because of the good things we had done. It was because of his mercy. He saved us by washing away our sins. We were born again. The Holy Spirit gave us new life. 6 God poured out the Spirit on us freely. That’s because of what Jesus Christ our Savior has done.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus3&version=NIRV


"It wasn’t because of the good things we had done." it can't get any clearer.


then from the same chapter
Remind God’s people to obey rulers and authorities. Remind them to be ready to do what is good. 2 Tell them not to speak evil things against anyone. Remind them to live in peace. They must consider the needs of others. They must always be gentle toward everyone.


not in order to get saved, but because they are saved.

 

[gb9]

I know this is mainstream teaching. It's just that I don't believe your understanding of the vision erases or makes Void ANY of God's Words, let alone the entire Old Testament.

I also don't believe the widespread religious teaching that Jesus the Man taught differently than He did where He was before.

I see where it would be a natural human reaction to try and fit Him into the limitation of a human mind, and to create an image of Him that relates and fits the human mind. I believe Paul explained why religious man, The Jews, went off the rails in the examples the Christ had written for us.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

There can be no question that Mainstream Christianity has indeed created an "image" of the Christ. It is known world wide as the "Christian God" and is present in most of their churches, and homes. This behavior is expressly forbidden in the First of the 10 Commandments.

Paul explains that religious man then worshipped the "image" of God they created in their mind, more than the True God whose Word's we are discussing on this forum.

Rom. 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Of course most of the Religious men of his time didn't believe Paul when he exposed this to them. They called him names, they accused him of sinning against God, they tried to discredit him, silence him, even kill him for exposing this truth.

It is truly a fascinating read. "there is nothing new under the sun".

well, since ,at least as far I remember, you have never explained the mount of transfiguration experience , and how it fits into your religion, maybe you may see fit to attempt to explain ( though I doubt you will ).

now, here is another thing you won't touch, your religion won't let you-

a young lady gave her testimony in my church today, a hard life, that ended up in a failed suicide attempt. ( took a bottle of pills. )

afterwards , she said that she was not sure if God had given her a second chance, or she just got lucky.

she then began coming to my church, and she said for the first time in her life she heard that God loved her, he could heal her pain, .

she gave her life to Christ, and stated that now she has joy in Him, and reads the Bible regularly.

she added that the people at my church made her feel welcome and loved.

can your man-made religion do this? no. it is cold, lifeless, with no love. only a set of demands and instructions with the threat of hell to back them up.

this is not a game to me studyman. there are millions of lost and hurting people in this broken, sinful world that need Jesus.
and those of us who are trying to help them, you and any like you stand in the way with all the command keeping for salvation crap.

so, you might want to consider this- you are doing the ememy;'s work, wheither you are meaning to or not.

 

[gb9]

always remember- the devil does not care who or what one worships or believes in- as long as it is not Jesus. Jesus is the only way.

law keeping for salvation is a very good counterfit religion - it appeals to one's pride. that is the devil's specialty- pride ( I shall be like the most high ),

 

[Studyman]

always remember- the devil does not care who or what one worships or believes in- as long as it is not Jesus. Jesus is the only way.

law keeping for salvation is a very good counterfit religion - it appeals to one's pride. that is the devil's specialty- pride ( I shall be like the most high ),

Funny you preach this. I have not found one place where satan works to convince folks to obey God's Commandments. Jesus did, Caleb did, Moses did, Elijah did, Joshua did, Zechariahs did, Paul did, Peter did, James did, Jeremiah did, Isaiah did, Malachi. But satan teaches God's instructions are a burden, not intended for our good, are thereto keep us down, ignorant.

I don't think the Church of Christ that Abraham and Peter belonged to was a counterfeit religion. All these submitted to God and His instructions. Those with Pride refused to accept God's Way, and created their own which doesn't include honoring God with obedience to His Way.

I agree satan doesn't care as long as He can convince a man to reject the Way of the Christ. After all, it was "HIM" who "Created all things" including the Commandments.

 

[Studyman]

At one time we too acted like fools. We didn’t obey God. We were tricked. We were controlled by all kinds of desires and pleasures. We were full of evil. We wanted what belongs to others. People hated us, and we hated one another. 4 But the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared. 5 He saved us. It wasn’t because of the good things we had done. It was because of his mercy. He saved us by washing away our sins. We were born again. The Holy Spirit gave us new life. 6 God poured out the Spirit on us freely. That’s because of what Jesus Christ our Savior has done.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus3&version=NIRV


"It wasn’t because of the good things we had done." it can't get any clearer.


then from the same chapter
Remind God’s people to obey rulers and authorities. Remind them to be ready to do what is good. 2 Tell them not to speak evil things against anyone. Remind them to live in peace. They must consider the needs of others. They must always be gentle toward everyone.


not in order to get saved, but because they are saved.

No, it was because of the "good things" God has done.

 

[Dan_473]

I know you don't believe "ALL" things were created by Him. Nor do you believe "all things" that are written in the Law and Prophets. You have made that abundantly clear in your posts. That would make the 10 Commandments which were "made" His, the Christ's, Commandments. That changes everything. So you can't believe "ALL" that is written about Him. And you can't believe "ALL" things were created by Him.



John 7:
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

I just don't believe that Jesus didn't get His Direction from His Father, both as the Word, and as a man. It just doesn't line up with the scriptures.



Are you saying the Word which became Flesh didn't sit at God's Right Hand before He became Flesh? Where was He then?

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

He wasn't sitting at the Right Hand of God before He became Flesh? Where was he?

61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

You preach He wasn't sitting at the Right Hand of God before He became Flesh? So where will He ascend if it isn't to the Right Hand of His father where He was before?

Col. 1:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

In your religion, was Abraham part of Christ's Church?

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Why was he glad Dan? Could it be because Jesus, as the Word, gave him the "Good News of the Gospel"?

John 14:
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

Do you believe the Father gave Him commandments on what to create? What to make Holy and Clean? Or did Jesus, as the Word, create these things apart from His Father?

The whole set of examples that were written for our admonition, do you believe the "Son" followed the Commandments of His Father in preparing them?

What God led them out of Egypt? What was the Rock they all drank from? Are you saying the Word which became Flesh didn't show Noah how to create the Ark? Are you saying the Word which became Flesh didn't create the Covenant with Israel or Promise a New Covenant where He will Write HIS Laws, that He created, on our hearts? Are you preaching it wasn't the Word which became Flesh that provided a sacrifice in the place of Abraham's Son?

And by whose direction did the Word create "ALL" Things?

John 7:
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

This discussion has been great Dan. I finally get to the crux of our disagreements and the truth about your religion. I don't expect anything to change, but the exercise was great and a huge Faith builder for me.

I hope others reading along can see the point of the post and then tie it to all the warnings the Word which became Flesh gave to us, both as the Word, and as the Man Jesus..

I believe you are mistaken. I do believe that all things were created by Him, that is Jesus.

I disagree with your conclusion that all Commandments are therefore created by Jesus.

I can give the Commandment, pick up that candy wrapper. but that doesn't make that commandment from Jesus. suppose we just refer to Commandments in the Bible? I believe that pharaoh ordered the Israelite midwives to kill the Israelite babies. but again, that commandment was not from Jesus.

so let's move to the Ten Commandments. They are specifically stated in the scriptures as having been given by the Lord, that is, yhwh.

is yhwh the same in every respect as Jesus of Nazareth? I say no, because in Psalm 110:1, yhwh is speaking to Jesus, telling him to sit at his, yhwh's right hand. so, the conclusion is not the Ten Commandments given by yhwh are not what Jesus means when he says keep my Commandments.

as regards to Jesus getting his teaching from the father, I totally agree.

of course Jesus can sit at God's right hand. Both Jesus, and the one at who's right hand he is sitting, are God.

but the issue is, when Jesus says his Commandments, is he referring to the Ten Commandments? No, The Ten Commandments were given by yhwh, who is not the same as Jesus in every respect.

so no, I do not teach that Jesus wasn't or isn't sitting at God's right hand.

no, Abraham was not part of Christ's Church, because the church is Christ's body. and entrance into the body of Christ is made by being baptized in the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit was not yet given at the time of Abraham.

I don't know if God gave Jesus Commandments about what to create, or how that worked exactly. I do know that Jesus created all things.

I believe your discussion of Jesus preparing Commandments for us is moot in light of the above truth that
yhwh is not the same in every respect as Jesus.

there is only one God. The Rock they all drink from was Christ.

the scripture is not specific about who spoke to Noah
Genesis 6: 13. God said to Noah, "The end of all flesh has come before me, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

by far the most common name describing who speaks to Israel through Moses and the prophets is yhwh, who is not the same in every respect as Jesus.

it's an interesting question, whose laws are written on our heart. I'm pretty sure it was yhwh who was speaking to Jeremiah in that prophecy. but would you expect literal Hebrew characters written on your heart? no, what is written is the law and the prophets this way
Matthew 7: 12. Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

we know this because the letter kills but the spirit gives life. therefore it is not the Ten Commandments, a collection of letters, that is written on our hearts in the New Covenant.

Abraham believed that it was yhwh Who provided the lamb,
Genesis 22: 14. Abraham called the name of that place Yhwh Will Provide. As it is said to this day, "On Yhwh's mountain, it will be provided."

I would assume that the word created all things at the father's Direction. But again, I'm not sure exactly how it all took place. but this is not the same as saying that Jesus' Commandments would be the Ten Commandments.

yes, it is a good discussion. and I too am glad that we are getting to some of the main points of how we see things differently.

And I'm glad your faith is being built. The edification of the other person is always the goal. it does take of faith to believe that God will, or has, Justified us on the basis of what we believe, and not on our actions.

 

[gb9]

Funny you preach this. I have not found one place where satan works to convince folks to obey God's Commandments. Jesus did, Caleb did, Moses did, Elijah did, Joshua did, Zechariahs did, Paul did, Peter did, James did, Jeremiah did, Isaiah did, Malachi. But satan teaches God's instructions are a burden, not intended for our good, are thereto keep us down, ignorant.

I don't think the Church of Christ that Abraham and Peter belonged to was a counterfeit religion. All these submitted to God and His instructions. Those with Pride refused to accept God's Way, and created their own which doesn't include honoring God with obedience to His Way.

I agree satan doesn't care as long as He can convince a man to reject the Way of the Christ. After all, it was "HIM" who "Created all things" including the Commandments.

I believe in obeying. the Commands that were given to the world. that is NOT the 10, and Torah.

you see, if you ever reject this oneness lie you push, you would understand that Father gave Israel the 10, and the rest of the Torah, to Israel only at Sinai.

the sermon on the mount is the main source of commands given by the Son to the world.

the Father said of the Son- hear Him, thus the Words in Red.

you speak so much of obeying, yet you refuse to obey the Father.

so, see, it is simple. but, to push your oneness, you have to muddy the waters.

Trinity is truth. I do not enjoy it, but I will stand against your oneness lies as long as I can.

 

[Dan_473]

No, it was because of the "good things" God has done.

no to what? that God saved us? Or that we do talked about at the beginning of Titus 3 because we are saved?

because we are saved, we have the holy spirit inside of us. The Holy Spirit then leads us to do good works.

or did you mean something like we love because he first loved us?

 

[Dan_473]

hello Studyman,

since we are enjoying getting to the main issues, here is something I asked a while back on a previous thread. If I recall correctly, you didn't answer

Revelation 5: 1. I saw, in the right hand of him who sat on the throne, a book written inside and outside, sealed shut with seven seals. 2. I saw a mighty angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the book, and to break its seals?" 3. No one in heaven above, or on the earth, or under the earth, was able to open the book, or to look in it. 4. And I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open the book, or to look in it. 5. One of the elders said to me, "Don't weep. Behold, the Lion who is of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome; he who opens the book and its seven seals." 6. I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, having seven horns, and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. 7. Then he came, and he took it out of the right hand of him who sat on the throne.

who is the one sitting on the throne? Is it the word made flesh?
why doesn't the one sitting on the throne open the scroll?

 

[Studyman]

hello Studyman,

since we are enjoying getting to the main issues, here is something I asked a while back on a previous thread. If I recall correctly, you didn't answer

Revelation 5: 1. I saw, in the right hand of him who sat on the throne, a book written inside and outside, sealed shut with seven seals. 2. I saw a mighty angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the book, and to break its seals?" 3. No one in heaven above, or on the earth, or under the earth, was able to open the book, or to look in it. 4. And I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open the book, or to look in it. 5. One of the elders said to me, "Don't weep. Behold, the Lion who is of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome; he who opens the book and its seven seals." 6. I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, having seven horns, and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. 7. Then he came, and he took it out of the right hand of him who sat on the throne.

who is the one sitting on the throne? Is it the word made flesh?
why doesn't the one sitting on the throne open the scroll?

In a conversation there are usually questions and answers by both parties.

"I disagree that in Romans chapter 4 The Works of the law are referring to just certain specific things in the law of Moses. I think it is talking about Good Works of any kind. no, not all of God's instructions, because that would include rejecting believing in him whom he has sent. But all of the laws given in the law of Moses. The you shall and you shall nots commonly associated with the old Covenant."

To which I asked.;

Can you show me in the Law and Prophets where God commanded to reject believing on those who He sent?

And can you also show me where the promise of the New Covenant mentioned eliminating or altering the "shalls and Shall nots"?

You ignored this post and the questions it posed. I am interested in seeing the Word of God that supports your preaching here.

I am not aware that were any others "laws" that contained "Works" performed for the remission or justification of sins given by Moses. I think you should answer these questions given since you were the one that made the statement.

Psalm 110: 1. the Lord says to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet."
the Lord who is speaking here is yhwh. he is speaking to the Son, who would take on flesh and be named Jesus.

When did His Father say to him, "Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool"? Was it when He said "Let there be Light"? Was it while He created "ALL THINGS"?

I asked "Are you saying the Word which became Flesh didn't sit at God's Right Hand before He became Flesh? Where was He then?

I posted a scripture,
"61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?"

I asked:
"You preach He wasn't sitting at the Right Hand of God before He became Flesh? So where will He ascend if it isn't to the Right Hand of His father where He was before?"

As is your custom you didn't even acknowledge my questions to your posts. You pick a sentence, or maybe the format, or a "word" but seldom really ever discuss any of my posts.

So I have an understand regarding your Revelation question. But I believe the answer requires one to first be settled on the questions I asked.

Instead of just moving on to the next, and the next, why don't you actually read and discuss the scriptures I post and answer my questions and show me how my understanding of the scriptures I post is wrong.

 

[Studyman]

no to what? that God saved us? Or that we do talked about at the beginning of Titus 3 because we are saved?

because we are saved, we have the holy spirit inside of us. The Holy Spirit then leads us to do good works.

or did you mean something like we love because he first loved us?

"It wasn’t because of the good things we had done. It was because of his mercy. He saved us by washing away our sins."

He saved who? He shows Mercy to who?

Everyone doesn't receive God's Mercy. But "many" have been convinced they already have received His Mercy. Jesus talks about this in a story about the future in Matt. 7. God's Works are Holy, men's religious traditions are not. I don't think it wise to equate men's "works" with God's "Works". Many of your posts imply there is no difference.

 

[gb9]

He saved who? He shows Mercy to who?

Everyone doesn't receive God's Mercy. But "many" have been convinced they already have received His Mercy. Jesus talks about this in a story about the future in Matt. 7. God's Works are Holy, men's religious traditions are not. I don't think it wise to equate men's "works" with God's "Works". Many of your posts imply there is no difference.

so, nothing on my post #363 , a girl accepts Jesus, something that should bring joy to every believer , to see a lost and hurting soul coming to Christ. your silence was expected. your cold, lifeless , man-made religion cares nothing about the joy of a lost soul coming to Christ.

Christians want people to come to Christ. that's it.

you and the other Judeaizers end goal is to get folks under the Law. your religion uses the Lord Jesus as a tool to point to Sinai, not the cross.

so, dress it up, dress it down, that is all you are trying to do.

the ultimate test of any theology is this- does it bring people to Christ?

yours does not. it is not designed not.

 

[JohnTalmid]

Circumcision of the flesh is not wrong. If you're moved by the Spirit to do so. Don't convert to the authorities of Jewdaisum however. This is what the faction of the circumcision wanted to do. It would profit you nothing to convert to Jewdaisum, however in the book of the instruction of Elohim is all ways in which a person of Faith should walk. Confirming the commandment and instructions meant for edification of the assembly as one new man in Messiah is what we have been brought close to the promise for. Look doing the Law doesn't save a person, walking in them because we are saved is what proves to us individually that we are redeemed and hoping for the correct things. Not to mention provoking Judah to jealously seek Messiah for themselves one day.

 

[Dan_473]

In a conversation there are usually questions and answers by both parties.



To which I asked.;

Can you show me in the Law and Prophets where God commanded to reject believing on those who He sent?

And can you also show me where the promise of the New Covenant mentioned eliminating or altering the "shalls and Shall nots"?

You ignored this post and the questions it posed. I am interested in seeing the Word of God that supports your preaching here.

I am not aware that were any others "laws" that contained "Works" performed for the remission or justification of sins given by Moses. I think you should answer these questions given since you were the one that made the statement.



When did His Father say to him, "Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool"? Was it when He said "Let there be Light"? Was it while He created "ALL THINGS"?

I asked "Are you saying the Word which became Flesh didn't sit at God's Right Hand before He became Flesh? Where was He then?

I posted a scripture,
"61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?"

I asked:
"You preach He wasn't sitting at the Right Hand of God before He became Flesh? So where will He ascend if it isn't to the Right Hand of His father where He was before?"

As is your custom you didn't even acknowledge my questions to your posts. You pick a sentence, or maybe the format, or a "word" but seldom really ever discuss any of my posts.

So I have an understand regarding your Revelation question. But I believe the answer requires one to first be settled on the questions I asked.

Instead of just moving on to the next, and the next, why don't you actually read and discuss the scriptures I post and answer my questions and show me how my understanding of the scriptures I post is wrong.

yes, a discussion does have both questions and answers from both parties. do you feel you haven't asked enough questions? Ask away!

so regarding your question of where in the Law and Prophets God commanded to reject believing on those who He sent, I don't believe that he did.

regarding your question of where the promise of the New Covenant mentioned eliminating or altering the "shalls and Shall nots", I don't know that it does mention eliminating or altering Commandments, but part of the New Covenant seems to me to be that if we are led by the spirit we are not under them. that would be in Galatians chapter 5.

I disagree that I ignored your post, you may not have recognized my answers to it. but no problem either way, here we are.

I'm not following you in this paragraph at all
"I am not aware that were any others "laws" that contained "Works" performed for the remission or justification of sins given by Moses. I think you should answer these questions given since you were the one that made the statement."
???


I don't know for sure when the statement was made in psalm 110: 1. it must have been at some point before the enemies of the Messiah were a footstool for his feet.

I don't know if the word which became flesh was sitting at God's right hand before he was incarnated or not. the question might be similar to where was the holy spirit before he was sent. the point of my quoting the verse was to ask which figure in the verse is the word made flesh? Or are both of them?

I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about where Jesus was before he incarnated, because I didn't think it was Jermaine to the discussion, the discussion related to the verse. Does where Jesus was affect which one is the word made flesh in the verse?

I believe I did answer your questions, and respond to your posts but if you didn't recognize the answers, then I'm glad you're asking again!

I posted the question regarding who is the one sitting on the throne in Revelation chapter 4 because it was fresh on my mind.

to me the question about Revelation chapter 4 was basically the same one as my question about Psalm 110. so in my mind, it wasn't really moving on.

 

[Dan_473]

He saved who? He shows Mercy to who?

Everyone doesn't receive God's Mercy. But "many" have been convinced they already have received His Mercy. Jesus talks about this in a story about the future in Matt. 7. God's Works are Holy, men's religious traditions are not. I don't think it wise to equate men's "works" with God's "Works". Many of your posts imply there is no difference.

I think the people that Titus 3 is talking about getting saved is the God's chosen people that Paul talks about in the opening of the book. basically, believers. the people who had been full of evil, but then had believed. and that's who he had mercy on.

you are correct that everyone does not receive God's mercy, at least the fullness of it that we talk about when we mean salvation. I think God's mercy is shown especially to those who receive Jesus, to those who believe on his name.

I agree that it is not wise to equate men's "works" with God's "Works". I have no idea how you could see that I was implying that in my posts.

 

[Studyman]

so, nothing on my post #363 , a girl accepts Jesus, something that should bring joy to every believer , to see a lost and hurting soul coming to Christ. your silence was expected. your cold, lifeless , man-made religion cares nothing about the joy of a lost soul coming to Christ.

Christians want people to come to Christ. that's it.

you and the other Judeaizers end goal is to get folks under the Law. your religion uses the Lord Jesus as a tool to point to Sinai, not the cross.

so, dress it up, dress it down, that is all you are trying to do.

the ultimate test of any theology is this- does it bring people to Christ?

yours does not. it is not designed not.

Perfect G9.

LOL, Will you now post pictures of starving children and ask for money?

What self proclaimed Christian "Theology" doesn't claim to lead folks to Christ? Can you name one that doesn't? You call Catholics False preachers, and Catholicism a False Religion.

How many "hurting souls" were convinced by the Catholic Church to "come to Christ" through them? Billions G9. Yet, you condemn them all as partakers of a Fake Religion.

How is your religion any different than theirs? Are your man made traditions somehow more Holy than theirs? Is the images of Christ they created somehow less holy than the images of Christ in other churches?

I love it when you post things G9.

 

[Studyman]

yes, a discussion does have both questions and answers from both parties. do you feel you haven't asked enough questions? Ask away!

so regarding your question of where in the Law and Prophets God commanded to reject believing on those who He sent, I don't believe that he did.

regarding your question of where the promise of the New Covenant mentioned eliminating or altering the "shalls and Shall nots", I don't know that it does mention eliminating or altering Commandments, but part of the New Covenant seems to me to be that if we are led by the spirit we are not under them. that would be in Galatians chapter 5.

I disagree that I ignored your post, you may not have recognized my answers to it. but no problem either way, here we are.

I'm not following you in this paragraph at all
"I am not aware that were any others "laws" that contained "Works" performed for the remission or justification of sins given by Moses. I think you should answer these questions given since you were the one that made the statement."
???


I don't know for sure when the statement was made in psalm 110: 1. it must have been at some point before the enemies of the Messiah were a footstool for his feet.

I don't know if the word which became flesh was sitting at God's right hand before he was incarnated or not. the question might be similar to where was the holy spirit before he was sent. the point of my quoting the verse was to ask which figure in the verse is the word made flesh? Or are both of them?

I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about where Jesus was before he incarnated, because I didn't think it was Jermaine to the discussion, the discussion related to the verse. Does where Jesus was affect which one is the word made flesh in the verse?

I believe I did answer your questions, and respond to your posts but if you didn't recognize the answers, then I'm glad you're asking again!

I posted the question regarding who is the one sitting on the throne in Revelation chapter 4 because it was fresh on my mind.

to me the question about Revelation chapter 4 was basically the same one as my question about Psalm 110. so in my mind, it wasn't really moving on.

I can only go by what you say.

so regarding your question of where in the Law and Prophets God commanded to reject believing on those who He sent, I don't believe that he did.

But you just said.

"I disagree that in Romans chapter 4 The Works of the law are referring to just certain specific things in the law of Moses. I think it is talking about Good Works of any kind. no, not all of God's instructions, because that would include rejecting believing in him whom he has sent. But all of the laws given in the law of Moses. The you shall and you shall nots commonly associated with the old Covenant."

You made the claim that if you obeyed God's Instructions, that would include rejecting the Christ. I asked what instructions from God teaches you to reject the Christ?

I'm not following you in this paragraph at all
"I am not aware that were any others "laws" that contained "Works" performed for the remission or justification of sins given by Moses. I think you should answer these questions given since you were the one that made the statement."
???

Paul talks about "Works of the Law" for remission or justification of sins. I asked you what, in the Old Covenant, were the "works of the Law" specifically created for the atonement of sins. Or do you preach there were no "works of the Law" specifically instituted by God through Moses for the justification of sins?

I don't know for sure when the statement was made in psalm 110: 1. it must have been at some point before the enemies of the Messiah were a footstool for his feet.

I don't know if the word which became flesh was sitting at God's right hand before he was incarnated or not. the question might be similar to where was the holy spirit before he was sent. the point of my quoting the verse was to ask which figure in the verse is the word made flesh? Or are both of them?

I made a pretty good case, using what scriptures were available to me, that Jesus was sitting at the Right hand of God from the beginning. And given Abel was considered by God to be a Prophet, that the Spirit of Christ would have been on Him as it was on all God's Prophets. Or do you follow the religious tradition that there was no "Spirit of Christ" until He was tortured and murdered?

Who is the enemy of the Word which became Flesh? When did God start His Program to place this enemy under His footstool?

And has all the Christ's enemies been placed under His Footstool yet?

The Bible teaches that Jesus, the Word which became Flesh, that created all things, followed the instructions of His Father. It's easy to understand unless one is influenced by all the religious voices out there.

John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (Including Abraham)

 

[posthuman]

Habakkuk 2:4
Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

the just shall live by faith

isn't the negation likewise true?

the unjust shall die by works

 

[Dan_473]

I can only go by what you say.



But you just said.



You made the claim that if you obeyed God's Instructions, that would include rejecting the Christ. I asked what instructions from God teaches you to reject the Christ?



Paul talks about "Works of the Law" for remission or justification of sins. I asked you what, in the Old Covenant, were the "works of the Law" specifically created for the atonement of sins. Or do you preach there were no "works of the Law" specifically instituted by God through Moses for the justification of sins?



I made a pretty good case, using what scriptures were available to me, that Jesus was sitting at the Right hand of God from the beginning. And given Abel was considered by God to be a Prophet, that the Spirit of Christ would have been on Him as it was on all God's Prophets. Or do you follow the religious tradition that there was no "Spirit of Christ" until He was tortured and murdered?

Who is the enemy of the Word which became Flesh? When did God start His Program to place this enemy under His footstool?

And has all the Christ's enemies been placed under His Footstool yet?

The Bible teaches that Jesus, the Word which became Flesh, that created all things, followed the instructions of His Father. It's easy to understand unless one is influenced by all the religious voices out there.

John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (Including Abraham)

I think I was saying, if I remember the context, that rejecting all of God's instructions would include rejecting believing in him whom he has sent.

But that's very different from being able to fully accept and believe in Jesus but not do the physical requirements required by the law of Moses.

I know that you would ask me what instructions from God teaches you to reject the Christ? I believe I answered it by saying that there are no instructions from God that teach us to reject Christ.

you said that Paul talks about "Works of the Law" for remission or justification of sins. I did a word search for the word remission in the King James Bible and as far as I can tell it occurs only in Paul's writings in Romans chapter 3, where it refers to justification through faith in Jesus Christ, not to works of the law. what verse are you looking at?

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit could not come until he went away. I do know that there are many places in the Old Testament scriptures where it will say something like the spirit of the Lord came upon Him mightily. So I assume that was kind of a temporary thing or something like that. Able may have had experiences where he spoke when the spirit of the Lord came upon him. We also know that Balaam is called a prophet in the Bible, and that he prophesize the word of God, but I don't know that I would say that he had the Holy Spirit the same way that Christians do today.

so going with the idea that that Jesus was sitting at the right hand of God from the beginning. Now in Psalm 110, in the first verse the person speaking is identified as yhwh. he is speaking to the Messiah, Christ. so my question is which one is the word made flesh? Is it yhwh? or is it the Messiah?

I would say that the enemies of Christ are probably Satan, his angels, and his human followers.

you asked When did God start His Program to place this enemy under His footstool? I'm not sure if it is a particular event, or an ongoing program. There seems to be real progress being made in the Book of Revelation. I would say that no all of Christ's enemies are not under his foot at this time.

I agree that Jesus, the Word which became Flesh, that created all things, followed the instructions of His Father! Hallelujah!
and amen to the scriptures from the hymn at the beginning of what we call the Gospel of John.