Is Messiah,(The Anointed One) the Father?

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OstrichSmiling

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EXACTLY!!

These Books are considered Gnostic because the COUNCIL did not like what was in them...BOOHOO, BOOHOO, BOOHOO!!

So any Book that proved their LIES to be LIES was banned!!

And then we have people still trying to help keep that LIE GOING TODAY like Trinitarians!!
All orchestrations from inception by what is the Roman's Catholic church.
God is not a man that he should lie. Why then did convened councils of men believe themselves appointed to determine what constituted God's words? So as to then arrive at two primacy points as those council namesakes. 1.The Nicene creed of beliefs about Jesus. (Also called and worded slightly differently is the Apostles creed) and 2. The closed canon. Meaning, that which is contained in the canon, (meaning "norm" or "standard"), is officially designated as God's final words to people of earth.
 

rlm68

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trofimus

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Scholars have proposed a date as early as 40 AD concerning the Gospel of Thomas, depending upon whether the Gospel of Thomas is identified with the original core of sayings.

[2] Almost half of these sayings resemble those found in the Canonical Gospels, while it is speculated that the other sayings were added later from tradition.
The same wikipedia you use as a source says that the text of the gospel of Thomas is proto-gnostic.
 

rlm68

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All orchestrations from inception by what is the Roman's Catholic church.
God is not a man that he should lie. Why then did convened councils of men believe themselves appointed to determine what constituted God's words? So as to then arrive at two primacy points as those council namesakes. 1.The Nicene creed of beliefs about Jesus. (Also called and worded slightly differently is the Apostles creed) and 2. The closed canon. Meaning, that which is contained in the canon is officially designated as God's final words to people of earth.

Which is a complete joke knowing they changed scriptures and refused other manuscripts. A real follower of God would have kept it all together so we had everything to see for ourselves.
 

OstrichSmiling

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Adding this: If I may make a small suggestion? I've ventured into other Christian communities over the years. I've found when witnessing those hostile to the Gnostic gospels that one is more likely to be banned for pursuing talk about their history at a site. Than any chance of changing the mind of any strong opposition to them.
Our faith is a relationship with God almighty. You wouldn't defend your reasons for being in human relationship with someone who makes your life wonderful. They wouldn't understand. If God speaks to us in nature, as we know he does, as well as in other ways contrary to what a closed canon decree says of its own authority as the final words of God to us, why worry others don't think God speaks through the Gospel of Thomas? Or any other text?
God is superior to man. Even councils that think themselves qualified to capture the eternal creative infinite power of holy spirit into a doctrine , creed, or canon. Just two coppers there hoping to bring peace and from witnessing the contrary of that in such debates for years. (hugs you) Blessings.
 

trofimus

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"Simon Peter said to them: "Let Mary go away from us, for women are not worthy of life."

Jesus said: "Look, I will draw her in so as to make her male, so that she too may become a living male spirit, similar to you. Every woman who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."
Gospel of Thomas, last words

Lol
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
No.


Nobody quoted Thomas. Everybody quoted 4 canonical gospels.


Thomas was not used because its a fake writing. The real Thomas was in India, not in Egypt. Sayings of the gospel of Thomas are very close to gnosticism and try to sound deep, but have no real meaning. Typical for gnostics.

You should return to apostolic teaching very quickly, if you ever were there.
fake based on what, your opinion?
the fact that He taught in India has nothing to do with anything. why would that even matter?? the Alexanderian Christians had writings from all over. unlike rome, they seeked out all truth where as rome hid truth just like the pharisees did.
the gnostics did have some strange philosophies for that time:
they invited others to come worship with them, if you refused, no hard feelings.
rome told you exactly how to worship, if you refused they might kill you and your entire family.
so as you can see the two were very different.
 

trofimus

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"Jesus says: "Where there are three gods, they are gods."
Gospel of Thomas, 30
 

rlm68

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The same wikipedia you use as a source says that the text of the gospel of Thomas is proto-gnostic.
Interesting, They claim Thomas was around 40 A.D. and later someone added to it.

I would believe then as these Scholars are claiming: if this was 100% Gnostic, over half of the verses would not match our current Gospels. The fact over half match indicates the other half was tampered with.
 

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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Interesting, They claim Thomas was around 40 A.D. and later someone added to it.

I would believe then as these Scholars are claiming: if this was 100% Gnostic, over half of the verses would not match our current Gospels. The fact over half match indicates the other half was tampered with.
Nice, so you read the gospel of Thomas with the idea that what is same as in the canonical gospels, is OK and the rest is tempered with. In such a case you can just read the canonical gospels.

And remember, women are not worthy of life.
 

rlm68

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"Jesus says: "Where there are three gods, they are gods."
Gospel of Thomas, 30
WRONG!!

30. Jesus said, "Where there are three deities, they are divine. (3 deities is the correct word used and they are divine)

Where there are two or one, I am with that one." (but Christ states He is not with the 3, but with the 2 or 1)
 

rlm68

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Jul 23, 2018
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Nice, so you read the gospel of Thomas with the idea that what is same as in the canonical gospels, is OK and the rest is tempered with. In such a case you can just read the canonical gospels.

And remember, women are not worthy of life.
If you are the BRIDE of CHRIST, that makes you a FEMALE!!
 

OstrichSmiling

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Jun 17, 2018
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Which is a complete joke knowing they changed scriptures and refused other manuscripts. A real follower of God would have kept it all together so we had everything to see for ourselves.
Well, I think we have to consider the world view of the Roman emperor. World conquest. Imagine if you will this scenario.
Christianity up until emperor Constantine, who convened the first council of Nicea was a pagan. And Christianity was illegal. Sometimes the faithful would be put to death depeding on their level of zeal and its implied or inferred threat to empire.
Then one day when Constantine was about to go into battle he had a vision. A cross appeared over the battlefield he was about to enter. And being pagan Constantine believed in portends and signs. Going into battle Constantine and his armies were victorious. And Constantine, a polytheist, a pagan with a pantheon of god's and goddesses as were typical of Romans of the day, took the cross vision over the battlefield where he gained victory as a sign that the God of the cross was on his side.
Long story short here, Constantine lifted the ban on the faith. Historians claim Constantine converted to the faith because of that. However, some contend Constantine remained a pagan until his death bed where he then converted to the faith of Christ. While some contend that while Constantine was healthy and virile still, he simply added faith in the teachings of Christ to the pantheon of other deities he revered.
The convening of the council of Nicea was to stop the bickering between various bishops and their people as to what it was to worship God. However, arriving at a creed that declares how that is accomplished would give Rome, the author of that creed, primacy. Now they ruled most of the known world's peoples. Ruling hearts and minds concerning Deity would insure rulership of the whole person.
Telling someone, love your enemies. Do good to those who abuse you. Obey the emperor. Would, in a doctrine that taught Hell awaited those who did not obey the word, make for compliance among those who lived to enjoy the rewards of the heavenly afterlife that was also promised. They'd live after life the way they saw emperors and the richly appointed in their day forever in an afterlife place.

For this reason 2nd Peter has been scrutinized by scholars along with 1st Peter and the Book of Jude, as arriving from what was contained in the Book of Enoch. (read here)

All of this is not to relate what I hold sacred in holy writ but rather to share that it is a fascinating journey to study the origins of the decree of canon, creedal Christianity, and the history of the books of the canon and sources behind those, if available on the record.

A never ending quest of study that insures one can live their whole life and not have found all there is to read and consider. :)

Blessings.
 

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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fake based on what, your opinion?
the fact that He taught in India has nothing to do with anything. why would that even matter?? the Alexanderian Christians had writings from all over. unlike rome, they seeked out all truth where as rome hid truth just like the pharisees did.
the gnostics did have some strange philosophies for that time:
they invited others to come worship with them, if you refused, no hard feelings.
rome told you exactly how to worship, if you refused they might kill you and your entire family.
so as you can see the two were very different.
Rome is a city. If you mean the RCC, you are mixing two different eras.

And maybe you could look at the map, where is India and where is Egypt.
 

rlm68

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Jul 23, 2018
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The Gospel of Thomas does not fit the definition of Gnosticism:

While the Gospel of Thomas has some features in common with gnostic gospels, it does not seem to fit the definition of gnosticism. … I [Marvin Meyer] prefer to consider the Gospel of Thomas to be a gospel with an incipient30 gnostic perspective. According to the incipit (or prologue) of the Gospel of Thomas, the sayings are hidden or secret sayings spoken by the living Jesus and recorded by Judas Thomas the Twin. … The sayings included in the Gospel of Thomas include a variety of aphorisms31, parables, stories, and other utterances of Jesus.32

This Biblical Scholar claims IT IS NOT GNOSTIC!!
 

trofimus

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LOL

You do know there is neither male or female in heaven?
Says who?

And do not run from your great book, from the gospel of Thomas. Are women worthy of life?
 

rlm68

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Jul 23, 2018
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The theology of the Gospel of Thomas does not jive with any particular system of Gnosis be it Naaseene, Valentinian, Basilidian, Carpocratian, or otherwise. … The traditional markers of Gnostic ideas are not present. There is no Sophia, Demiurge, Pleroma, Error, Aeons, or Archons.33

This Biblical Scholar claims IT IS NOT GNOSTIC!!


another one, there are many who say Thomas IS NOT GNOSTIC!!

This reading of the Gospel of Thomas places it squarely within early orthodoxy rather than outside. The Gospel of Thomas does not represent the voice of some late generic Gnostic heresy or some early unique sapiential35 Christianity. Rather it is quite cogent with early Syrian Christianity as described in the oldest literature from the area.36
 

OstrichSmiling

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Jun 17, 2018
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The Gospel of Thomas does not fit the definition of Gnosticism:

While the Gospel of Thomas has some features in common with gnostic gospels, it does not seem to fit the definition of gnosticism. … I [Marvin Meyer] prefer to consider the Gospel of Thomas to be a gospel with an incipient30 gnostic perspective. According to the incipit (or prologue) of the Gospel of Thomas, the sayings are hidden or secret sayings spoken by the living Jesus and recorded by Judas Thomas the Twin. … The sayings included in the Gospel of Thomas include a variety of aphorisms31, parables, stories, and other utterances of Jesus.32

This Biblical Scholar claims IT IS NOT GNOSTIC!!
Then that would make contentions against the Gospel of Thomas as Gnostic and therefore dismissed invalid. ;)