Is Messiah,(The Anointed One) the Father?

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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Why would heaven be ALL MALE and this verse bother you? It matches heaven?

I must go for now...but I don't see why this verse is an issue knowing ALL OF HEAVEN IS MALE DOMINATED!!
Do women need to become males to enter heaven? Yes/No.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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Besides the Colossians verse there is that of Revelation.

Revelation 3 Interlinear
Links
Revelation 3:14Revelation 3:14 Text AnalysisRevelation 3:14 InterlinearRevelation 3:14 MultilingualRevelation 3:14 TSKRevelation 3:14 Cross ReferencesRevelation 3:14 Bible HubRevelation 3:14 Biblia ParalelaRevelation 3:14 Chinese BibleRevelation 3:14 French BibleRevelation 3:14 German Bible



The firstborn of all creation, given the context of the entire chapter of Colossians, speaks of Jesus, Yeshua, Immanuel, primacy.
Blue Letter Bible Colossians 1
Did you ever check out the Greek on Revelation 3:14? It is "NOT" teaching Jesus Christ is the first creation of God. In fact it is teaching the exact opposite of what you say.And btw, neither is Proverbs 8:22 teaching Jesus is a created being since you brought up Revelation 3:14.

Revelation 3:14, "The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God." That word "Beginning" is the Greek word "arche." From the word "arche" we get our English word, (are you ready?) architect. The architect is by definition the orgin, orginator, the planner of something. In this case Jesus Christ is the orgin of creation.

Furthermore, John 1:3, Colossians 1:15,16, Hebrews 1:10 all back up Revelation 3:14. The same word "arche" is used at Revelation 21:6 where Jesus is clearly identified as the "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. Also, Isaiah 44:6 says, "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts; I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me."

Jesus Christ also backs this up at Revelation 1:17,18, "Do not be afraid, I am the first and the last and the living One; and I was dead, and behold I am alive forever more. And look at Revelation 1:8, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who is to come, the Almighty."

So, how many alpha and omegas are there and how many first and last are there, how many Redeemers are there, how many creators are there, and how many architects are there? I only count one, how many do you count? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
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Are women worthy of life?
It is your question so it is left to you to answer.
One God given fact is irrevocable however. Were it not for God creating women you would not be here to ask one that question. :)
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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It is your question so it is left to you to answer.
I wonder where did you learn this logic.

Do you believe the gospel of Thomas or not? If not, why are you propagating it? If yes, why dont you want to talk about its text?
 

Janna38

Well-known member
Jul 2, 2018
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The Messiah and the Father are one but the Messiah and the Father are not the same.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
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I wonder where did you learn this logic.

Do you believe the gospel of Thomas or not? If not, why are you propagating it? If yes, why dont you want to talk about its text?
You ask and answer your own questions.
Ask yourself why in talking to a woman on this forum you chose that text to address to her before I entered into it.
Do you have an issue with women? Are you using the Gospel according to Thomas as an entry point thinking to demean the female using a text you clearly despise thinking it "gnostic" yet do not understand?

These are your questions that only you know the answer to. Regardless of what you may key in response.

"Look, I will draw her in so as to make her male, so that she too may become a living male spirit, similar to you.”
Source: Although it is not possible to attribute the Gospel of
Thomas to any particular sect, it is clearly Gnostic in nature.
As the preamble indicates, these are "secret sayings", and are
intended to be esoteric in nature. The Sayings are not intended
to be interpreted literally, as their New Testament parallels
often are, but to be interpreted symbolically, as attested by
Saying #1. While a literal interpretation may make sense, only by
understanding the deeper meanings of the Sayings can one truly
understand them. Thus in Saying #114, it is to be understood that
"male" symbolizes the pneumatic (spiritual, or Gnostic)
Christians, and "female" symbolizes the psychic (unenlightened,
or orthodox) Christians, rather than actually referring to males
and females. Keep in mind that true understanding of this text
was meant to come from PERSONAL contact with the Divine,
inspiration from within.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
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The Messiah and the Father are one but the Messiah and the Father are not the same.
The father could not be fully realized within flesh and bone. When Jesus said prior to his ascension that he is returning to the father that was the power within what had been the body of a man returning to creator of that human self.
Jesus said, I and the father are one.
When it is said in scripture that Jesus now sets at the right hand of the father, that sermon to the faithful followers of our Lord meant to send them that message they already knew from the Torah teachings as symbolizing that seat of power.
When we arrive to be before the father we will not see two persona sitting in thrones side by side. God is one and there is no other. God created all things from himself and of himself. Jesus said, the kingdom of God is within. And, no one comes to the father but through me.
Everything that exists, including you, who science has found contains stardust in your physiology as a human being and as does most all things on this planet contain it also, is of our creator. God.
Seek not God removed from your self. God is the source of your self.

Jesus , Immanuel (God with us), Yeshua ("Joshua") was the narrow door on earth. Narrow is the way. (Early followers were called, the people of the way. Or, the people of the book. Pagans used that term because converted Jews found their faith origin in scrolls, or "books". Whereas pagan peoples were animistic. I.E. their deities were in all of nature and the elements and therein spoke to them their 'testament' on that level.)

Jesus was the narrow gate/door because the fullness of God would not abide in the limits of human flesh and bone. Nor could first century people look upon God as I Am and live. But a man born of the maternal line of David, as a Jew, fulfilling the prophecies afforded Messiah come, would be understood to be the prophecy fulfilled. And Immanuel, as his title, God with us, would inform anyone who heard that name spoken as to whom they were meeting.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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I never claimed those Books were not inspired by God, I claimed verses were tampered with by the Council.

But even if they are inspired by God, those others Books existed at same time when Jude wrote his letter. That is the difference.

They already existed or Jude could not add Enoch!!
The reason I ask the question was because Isaiah 40:8 says, "The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of God stands forever." And 1 Peter 1:25, "But the word of the Lord abides forever. And this was the word that was preached to you."

So what needs to be cleared up for you? Why are you so obsessed with this idiotic claim that some books are left out when it does not change one thing in the 66 books of the Bible we have. It also does not change one "wit" even from the time of Jude till now. Good grief, grow up! :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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The Messiah and the Father are one but the Messiah and the Father are not the same.
In what respect is the Messiah and the Father one? And in what respect is the Messiah and the Father not the same? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,507
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Rome is a city. If you mean the RCC, you are mixing two different eras.


rome has nothing to do with RCC, rome means roman empire. the message of Jesus and the 12 was different before rome ever got involved in the faith.

And maybe you could look at the map, where is India and where is Egypt.
yes, two different places, and again, what does this have to do with anything? are you saying Thomas was born in India, Jesus went to India and trained Thomas, commanded him never to leave India, and gave another command to never let his (Thomas) teachings ever leave India?
yeah that makes a lot of sense . . .
 

Janna38

Well-known member
Jul 2, 2018
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In what respect is the Messiah and the Father one? And in what respect is the Messiah and the Father not the same? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

When Jesus said I am the messiah you speak of, then he also said me and the father are one.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,663
326
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When Jesus said I am the messiah you speak of, then he also said me and the father are one.
Ok let's check it out. Jesus said this at John 10:30, "I and My Father are one." What He was saying is that He and His Father are one in nature or essence. The Jews understood what Jesus was saying and their response at vs31 was, "The Jews took up stones again to stone Him." Why?

The answer is at John 10:33, "The Jews answered Him, For a good work we do not stone You, but for BLASPHEMY; and because You, being a man, MAKE YOURSELF OUT GOD." And to answser the question about in what respect are the Son and Father not the same? They are not the same person. They are the ONE God (not two gods or three gods) but they are distinct persons within the Godhead. Does that make sense? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Janna38

Well-known member
Jul 2, 2018
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Ok let's check it out. Jesus said this at John 10:30, "I and My Father are one." What He was saying is that He and His Father are one in nature or essence. The Jews understood what Jesus was saying and their response at vs31 was, "The Jews took up stones again to stone Him." Why?

The answer is at John 10:33, "The Jews answered Him, For a good work we do not stone You, but for BLASPHEMY; and because You, being a man, MAKE YOURSELF OUT GOD." And to answser the question about in what respect are the Son and Father not the same? They are not the same person. They are the ONE God (not two gods or three gods) but they are distinct persons within the Godhead. Does that make sense? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Yeah, that’s what I meant, perfect sense.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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That's not what I said. I said the father is too holy to dwell in us. He dwells in us through his holy spirit. I really have no idea how it all parses out, but there is holy, and there is most holy. I'm sure the holy spirit is most holy, but it is able to dwell with sinful men without destroying them, whereas the father is not.
Well if the Father is too holy to dwell in us how come Jesus said the following at John 14:23, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and we shall come to him. AND MAKE OUR ABODE WITH HIM." And then at John 14:16, "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper/Holy Spirit that HE MAY BE WITH YOU FOREVER."

I just explained to you from the word of God how it all "parses" out. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit indwell a beliver, I just gave you the proof. So are the Scriptures wrong? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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The reason I ask the question was because Isaiah 40:8 says, "The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of God stands forever." And 1 Peter 1:25, "But the word of the Lord abides forever. And this was the word that was preached to you."

Since Jude mentions Enoch, how do we know that Enoch was not being preached?

So far, your scripture references don't change the fact that scripture was left out.

How do we know when Isaiah wrote this, he thought Jasher and Enoch (which existed then) would always be in the collection and not be removed?

Clearly, he would have thought all scripture that was available would NEVER be REMOVED!!

How is it you do not get this?



So what needs to be cleared up for you? Why are you so obsessed with this idiotic claim that some books are left out when it does not change one thing in the 66 books of the Bible we have. It also does not change one "wit" even from the time of Jude till now. Good grief, grow up! :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
How do you know it does not change a thing?

How do you know because the Council was trinity they did not change many scriptures to make it look trinity?

The fact Peter and Paul baptized in name of Christ is an indication that they disobeyed Christ in Matthew 28:19 (how to baptize), or they were following what Christ taught them (but Matthew 28:19 was changed to trinity)?

Why would Peter and Paul baptize differently than what they were taught?
In my opinion, Peter would have followed Christ's teachings to a T!!
Which means Christ did instruct them to baptize in the name of Christ (not the trinity) since we know that Peter and Paul did baptize in name of Christ (not the trinity)!!

Don't you think logically, or just assume no one messed with scripture (when it's obvious they did)?
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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Do women need to become males to enter heaven? Yes/No.

I do not know.
I do know we receive heavenly bodies.
And maybe we won't be male or female, maybe we will be a new creature in Paradise!!
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
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I had the same question

The Bible is clear we get a heavenly body. But that does not mean we are male or female, since there is no longer a need to populate the earth, because we will be in heaven. Our Spirits in heaven do not need to be defined as male/female. And, we already know we are the BRIDE of Christ (male and female are the BRIDE). I don't think God see's the genders unless it was to populate the earth, bring the Messiah into the world through Mary. Other than that, I think in heaven we won't have a gender!!