OSAS= House Built on Sand

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#41
Faith of Christ . Not Faith in or on; but the Faith of Christ in Gal. 2:20. Christ in us the Hope of Glory. For as many of us as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:27,28
Scripture explicitly witnesses to have faith/believe in, upon and into Christ. The faith of Christ is simply the noun form of those.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#42
So if I understand you correctly, we receive the righteousness of God which is by faith in Christ and we no longer sin. .
No; as you said we are no longer servants of sin. However The capability and intent through Christ is total victory over the flesh here and now. We can do all things through Him that strengthens us! For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure!

Before I was converted I sinned to my hearts content, then after my conversion the battle against the flesh started and continues to this day.
Praise GOD! We are to Beat the flesh into subjection through Christ; lest we ourselves are a castaway!
I was hoping you would agree that we continue to sin until the end, but we fight temptation all the way to the end and then we receive our reward.
Shall we continue in sin that grace abound? GOD forbid! How are we that are dead to sin live any longer therein? For He was manifested to take away our sin. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins (separated from our sins), should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience (the inner man; who we are ) from dead works (sin;acts that cause death) to serve the living God? And through that he is the mediator of the new testament,

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. But we know that He was manifested to take away our sins and in Him is no Sin.
(1Pe 2:24; Heb 9:13-15; 10:1-4)
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
#44
No; as you said we are no longer servants of sin. However The capability and intent through Christ is total victory over the flesh here and now. We can do all things through Him that strengthens us! For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure!

Praise GOD! We are to Beat the flesh into subjection through Christ; lest we ourselves are a castaway!Shall we continue in sin that grace abound? GOD forbid! How are we that are dead to sin live any longer therein? For He was manifested to take away our sin. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins (separated from our sins), should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience (the inner man; who we are ) from dead works (sin;acts that cause death) to serve the living God? And through that he is the mediator of the new testament,

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. But we know that He was manifested to take away our sins and in Him is no Sin.
(1Pe 2:24; Heb 9:13-15; 10:1-4)
The following verses sum up what I'm trying to say.

Romans 7:22-25 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

The above describe my battle with sin, it's actually comforting to know that Paul had the same battle against sin as a saved man.

If a man of God like Paul had such a struggle with sin, then it's understandable that ordinary Christians have the same battle.

I tried really hard to live a sinless life when I was first converted, but I have come to accept that I won't get the victory over sin in this life. We just can't shake the monkey off our backs in this life.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
13,419
113
58
#45
The following verses sum up what I'm trying to say.

Romans 7:22-25 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

The above describe my battle with sin, it's actually comforting to know that Paul had the same battle against sin as a saved man.

If a man of God like Paul had such a struggle with sin, then it's understandable that ordinary Christians have the same battle.

I tried really hard to live a sinless life when I was first converted, but I have come to accept that I won't get the victory over sin in this life. We just can't shake the monkey off our backs in this life.
Apparently, SDA's believe we can be sinless.

http://www.exadventist.com/sdafaq/afmmain.aspx?faqid=168

Paul teaches otherwise and so does John in 1 John 1:8-10.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#46
The very fact that you utilize the pagan word "gospel" displays gross ignorance and complete unfamiliarity with the Greek. "It would be wisdom on your part if you would cease and desist and be silent." (Proverbs, Job)
Yes I would like to know what is your training in Greek, that is the true issue here since you consider yourself a translator.

You may also make note that Jesus and the apostles used non religious words.

There are presently many cults and sects that make everything of pagan origin, yet they themselves promote false teachings which is in itself ironic.
The etymology of the word "gospel" is "good news"
How far back have you researched the etymology of the word "gospel" or did you learn of its pagan origins on the internet?
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#47
So many new people has come last weeks to CC with "anti RCC, anti Augustin, anti Trinity, anti Calvin, anti Luther, anti historic creeds, anti general Church teachings, anti bible canon" views. And they all have some obvious agenda they came to teach.

Is this some kind of strange coincidence? I am not sure.

But they all know something what other Christians do not. Because they studied so much and we did not. I think that moderators should look at it, what is happening here last days.

Would it be so hard for you trofimus, to believe that, If Jesus of Nazareth, has His "Priests", that His Father "gave" for Him TO have? That His Father, (yours too) has His "Priests", as well?

The very fact, you are "noticing" "SOMETHING, is afoot?" :) Speaks volumes concerning your faith in Christ, OUR Lord AND Savior!

The "strange coincidence", you speak of, concerns "other Priests" after the "Order of Melchizedk" Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. We read in the Bible in Psalms 110:1-The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (and?) 4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. You don't "think" there is only "one Priest" to an order, do you? Much like, in a restaurant, and you order a "side order of spaghetti", and the waitress comes back with a dish with one noodle on it? Would you not say? "Hey!"...."Where's my spaghetti?" Just an illustration, so it is with the Order of Melchizedk.

Allow me to further illustrate, using food. It's like God ordered a spaghetti sauce, to be made for the "feast", when He sends his Son back . The "cooks", get to work on the sauce. Over the course of this present earth/heaven age? God "tastes test" the sauce, over time, it doesn't suit His taste buds, so He tells the cooks. "More Salt!" So they sprinkles in a "little" salt. Let's that simmer awhile, comes back, tastes it, and in a little louder voice, He sez "More Salt." The "feast" is really getting close now, and the sauce is as "done", as its going to get, so God wants to try the sauce with spaghetti! So the cooks hands Him a plate of spaghetti sauce with just one noodle. God looks down at His plate, looks back up to His cooks, and sez "Where's MY SPAGHETTI?!"

If you can "picture" the 2nd half of Psalms 110:1, as "GOD'S Spaghetti?" You get an idea, of what's "afoot."

If you don't? Just "put it on a shelf."

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. That is, if one is walking after the Spirit. Which, in these days, it seems, many "think" they are, but are not. Worshiping God, in truth, and love, but not in Spirit!

"Vanity, makes eyes see dimly, and ears dull to hearing the Word of God."
"Traditions of man
, makes VOID the Word of God."

And what "better" place then a forum such as this for "drive by's", who feel abandoned, or even persecuted by "the church", in reading posts and threads from "others", as they "surf?" Who knows? Maybe they'll even drop a dime in the cup, eh? ;):)
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
#48
Apparently, SDA's believe we can be sinless.

http://www.exadventist.com/sdafaq/afmmain.aspx?faqid=168

Paul teaches otherwise and so does John in 1 John 1:8-10.
Not just the SDA's, but some here believe it as well. I've been reading many posts and some of the views are pretty unbiblical. But I guess the forum is open to all denominations, so they can all explain why they believe what they believe. All we need to remember is to let every man be a liar and let God be true.

I spent around 6 months in an SDA Church, I heard a lot of things that sounded good to me at the time. But I was quite young and gullible. It was still better than the Pentecostal Church I came from, it sounded like a lunatic asylum when everyone started blabbing in tongues.

That's where I walked the isle and made my profession of faith and I had a bunch of guys lay hands on me and blab in tongues like you wouldn't believe, it was quite funny actually.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#49
Being Submissive/ Faithful/Obedient To Him= Accurate

Just Believe/Accept Him as Saviour= Bad Translation in English

(Tranlations are mine from the Greek.
*All 41 occurrences of the Greek phrase
πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν
are listed below in context)​

Part I
Mat 18:6 ὅς δ᾿ ἂν σκανδαλίσῃ ἕνα τῶν μικρῶν τούτων τῶν πιστευόντων εἰς ἐμέ, συμφέρει αὐτῷ ἵνα κρεμασθῇ μύλος ὀνικὸς εἰς τὸν τράχηλον αὐτοῦ καὶ καταποντισθῇ ἐν τῷ πελάγει τῆς θαλάσσης.
Mat 18:6 “Whoever should cause one of these little ones who are continually submissive and faithful to me to sin, it is better for him that a millstone of a donkey be tied around his neck and he be submerged in the depth of the open sea.” (repeated in Mk 9:42)

Joh 1:12 ὅσοι δὲ ἔλαβον αὐτόν, ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς ἐξουσίαν τέκνα Θεοῦ γενέσθαι, τοῖς πιστεύουσιν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ,
Joh 1:12 As many people that received him, he gave to them the privilege to become children of God—to the ones that are continually submissive and obedient to his authority.

Joh 2:11 Ταύτην ἐποίησε ἀρχὴν τῶν σημείων ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς ἐν Κανὰ τῆς Γαλιλαίας καὶ ἐφανέρωσε τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτὸν οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ.
Joh 2:11 This beginning of miraculous signs Yahshua performed in Cana of Galilee and he manifested his splendor. And his disciples were submissive to him.

Joh 2:23 ῾Ως δὲ ἦν τοῖς ῾Ιεροσολύμοις ἐν τῷ πάσχα ἐν τῇ ἑορτῇ, πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ, θεωροῦντες αὐτοῦ τὰ σημεῖα ἃ ἐποίει.
Joh 2:23 While he was in Jerusalem during the festival of the Passover, many people were submissive to his authority as they were seeing the miracles that he did.

Joh 3:14 καὶ καθὼς Μωϋσῆς ὕψωσε τὸν ὄφιν ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ, οὕτως ὑψωθῆναι δεῖ τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου,
Joh 3:15 ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ᾿ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Joh 3:16 οὕτω γὰρ ἡγάπησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ᾿ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Jn 3:14-16 “And in the same way that Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, it is necessary for the Son of Humanity likewise to be lifted up, in order that everyone who is continually faithful and submissive to him should not be destroyed, but instead, possess age-abiding Life. Because God in this manner was lovingly-devoted to the cosmos: to the point that he gave his one-of-a-kind son, in order that every person who is constantly submissive and obedient to him might not be destroyed, but instead possess age-abiding Life.”

Joh 3:18 ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν οὐ κρίνεται, ὁ δὲ μὴ πιστεύων ἤδη κέκριται, ὅτι μὴ πεπίστευκεν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ μονογενοῦς Υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ.
Joh 3:18 “The one who is obedient to him is not judged; but the one who is not faithful is already judged, because he has not been submissive to the authority of the unique-in-kind son of God.

Joh 3:36 ὁ πιστεύων εἰς τὸν Υἱὸν ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον· ὁ δὲ ἀπειθῶν τῷ Υἱῷ οὐκ ὄψεται ζωήν, ἀλλ᾿ ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ Θεοῦ μένει ἐπ᾿ αὐτόν.
Joh 3:36 The person who is submissively being obedient to the son possesses age-abiding Life; but the person who is being disobedient to the son will not see Life. Instead, the wrath of God is remaining on top of him.

Joh 4:39 ᾿Εκ δὲ τῆς πόλεως ἐκείνης πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτὸν τῶν Σαμαριτῶν διὰ τὸν λόγον τῆς γυναικὸς, μαρτυρούσης ὅτι εἶπέ μοι πάντα ὅσα ἐποίησα.
Joh 4:39 Many people of the Samaritans from that city became faithful to him on account of the statement of the woman who testified, “He told me everything that I have done!”

Joh 6:29 ἀπεκρίθη ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· τοῦτό ἐστι τὸ ἔργον τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἵνα πιστεύσητε εἰς ὃν ἀπέστειλεν ἐκεῖνος.
Joh 6:29 Yahshua answered and told them, “This is the 'work of God': that you should be submissive and faithful to the person that he sent!

Joh 6:35 εἶπε δὲ αὐτοῖς ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς· ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ἄρτος τῆς ζωῆς· ὁ ἐρχόμενος πρός ἐμὲ οὐ μὴ πεινάσῃ, καὶ ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ οὐ διψήσει πώποτε.
Joh 6:35 Yahshua told them, “I am Life's Bread. The person constantly approaching me will never be hungry, and the person being consistantly submissive and faithful to me will not ever be thirsty.”

Joh 6:40 τοῦτο δὲ ἐστι τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντός με, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ θεωρῶν τὸν υἱὸν καὶ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον, καὶ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸν ἐγὼ τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ.
Joh 6:40 “This is the intention of the one who sent me: in order that everyone who is constantly looking to the son, and being always submissive and faithful to him, may have age-abiding Life. And I will resurrect him in the Last Day.”

(Part II next)

Jn 3:14-16 “And in the same way that Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, it is necessary for the Son of Humanity likewise to be lifted up, in order that everyone who is continually faithful and submissive to him should not be destroyed, but instead, possess age-abiding Life . Because God in this manner was lovingly-devoted to the cosmos: to the point that he gave his one-of-a-kind son, in order that every person who is constantly submissive and obedient to him might not be destroyed, but instead possess age-abiding Life.”

I really like, that translation from "everlasting" to "age-abiding Life!" As it "smacks" of "things forever!" Backwards "forever" as well as frontwards "forever!"

As it is rather difficult, if not downright impossible, for one that embraces an "everlasting period of NOW", to comprehend.
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#50
1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Israel was called of God, and the whole nation was to obey God, but many of them did not do right although they still claimed God, so He was not pleased with them, which they are for an example to us not to behave in the same manner.

If any person thinks they stand, that they cannot fall take heed lest they fall, and that is because they do not take care to the way they are supposed to act, but they become relaxed in their walk with God, thinking they cannot fall, and allow sin to be in their life thinking they are alright with God.

But then they are not right with God.

Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

The same thing here concerning Israel in the wilderness, for the saints to take care not to fall victim to the rebellious ones attitude, in which they became hardened through the deceitfulness of sins, and departed from the living God, although they can still claim Him.

Because sin separates us from God whether we claim Christ or not, but the advantage of claiming Christ is they can repent, but some do not repent and hold unto sin thinking they are right with God.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The same thing here when the Jews did not continue in the goodness of God, but were rebellious against His commandments, they were cut off, and the same thing will happen to those who claim Christ if they do not continue in the goodness of God.

Which it is the same whether Old Testament, or New Testament, in obeying God, and abstaining from sin, and going by His commandments, but many make excuses concerning that and hold unto sin, and think they are right with God.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Some have a form of godliness, but they deny the Spirit leading them because they want to enjoy sin, and they are ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, which they think they are right with God despite their sins.

The Bible says that a Spirit led life can abstain from sin if they hate sin, and do not want sin, so there is no excuse, but many do not hate sin like they should hate sin, and sin on purpose, and then think they are right with God.

When they sin they enjoy the sin, for if they did not enjoy the sin they would not do it, and whatever we enjoy we do on purpose, so they sin on purpose, when they could abstain from that sin, and then want an excuse they cannot abstain from sin.

Now if they say they cannot abstain from sin, and they sin daily, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, then we know that they will do sin, and hold unto sin, and think they are right with God, because they say they cannot abstain from sin, but they do not want to abstain from sin, and then want an excuse to be able to enjoy sin.

Since OSAS think they cannot fall they will enjoy sin and think they are alright.

But that is why the Bible says if any person thinks they stand take heed lest they fall, because they think they cannot fall so they do not do right and think they are right, so they will enjoy sin and think they are alright, and still stand.

If Israel could not get away with being rebellious who are God's chosen people, then the people who claim Christ cannot get away with being rebellious, and sin separates us from God whether we claim Christ or not.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

The Lord knows then that are His having this seal, which this is the seal that seals the saints, and the way that they are led of the Spirit, that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

But some do not depart from iniquity, having a form of godliness but did not allow the Spirit to lead them because they wanted to enjoy sin being led of the flesh, and thought they were alright with God.

OSAS does not take heed to how they are supposed to act, and abstain from sin, thinking they cannot abstain from sin, and sin daily, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, when the Bible says if they hate sin, and do not want sin, by the Spirit they can abstain from sin, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, when the Bible says that sin does affect their relationship with God.

So why would they believe how they believe, when the Bible talks against it.

Their belief is built on sand for OSAS has produced many hypocrites that think they are alright, and enjoy material things, and money, thinking they are blessed by God, when Paul said if they believe God blesses with money and material things for their wants, withdraw yourselves from them, having food and clothing be content, all the while some are millionaires, enjoying worldliness, and fleshy pleasures, and money and material things for their wants, and think they are alright with God.

They enjoy sin and think they are alright with God.

And they do not take heed to the scriptures that God said He wants all people to be saved, and anybody can have that salvation.

And they do not take heed that many are called but few are chosen, meaning that God does the calling and choosing on earth.

And they do not take heed to God's nature that He is good and not evil, for His kingdom is love, so if they have no choice but to accept the truth then God's kingdom is not true love, and He is not evil to condemn people that have no choice but to reject the truth.

And they do not take heed to all have sinned but fallen short of the glory of God, and there is none that does good, no, not one, and what makes you to differ from another person, and if you offend in the least of the law you offend in all for you broke the law.

So everybody is on the same level, and in the same boat, so why would God choose some to be saved, and not saved without their choice, if everybody is on the same level.

And they do not take heed that the saints predestined to salvation means that God already had the plan to give mankind salvation before He started creation, and that salvation is to whoever wants it, for God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning.

Which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, although it did not happen until 4000 years later, and the saints are predestined to salvation although they chose that salvation in the future.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,833
13,558
113
#51
But it is written in John 11; "Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day?"

So if the Sun and Moon are used as time keepers,
then if the greater light was to rule by day
and the lesser by was to rule by night,

View attachment 185852
then is it day or night in the picture above
where the Moon is visible in the sky?​

Yet who uses the Sun and Moon to keep time?
USA's ruler went and visited UK not too long ago.

was it US or UK while he was there?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
13,419
113
58
#52
Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#53
We are to be dead nevertheless alive. But not us both Christ lives in us. And the Life we now live in the flesh we are now to Live by the Faith of Christ.

Faith of Christ . Not Faith in or on; but the Faith of Christ in Gal. 2:20. Christ in us the Hope of Glory. For as many of us as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:27,28


GOD in Him, He in us that the world might believe.


But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word) again from the dead.)
But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; For Christ (the word in our hearts and mouths) is the end of the law (that witten with ink and on tables of stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth. Rom 10:6-8,4
Amen, of not in, as towards Him. But his faith working towards us .A clear distinction that many forfeit for in towards.

Many paraphrase's turn that upside down giving men a false hope .

No faith of Christ working in us to both will and perform His good pleasure no pleasing Him. We work out the free gift not work to gain it

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.Phillipians2:13
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#54
Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
That would mean that once a person becomes a Christian they become a robot and can never decide to leave God, nor to stay- which would mean that once we are saved our freewill is taken away. Sorry, I do not believe that, and Scripture does not support that. The bible would not say "no longer covered by Christ's blood" if it were not possible to happen.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#55
That would mean that once a person becomes a Christian they become a robot and can never decide to leave God, nor to stay- which would mean that once we are saved our freewill is taken away. Sorry, I do not believe that, and Scripture does not support that. The bible would not say "no longer covered by Christ's blood" if it were not possible to happen.
If you can decide to leave God then you were never truly His, because it is not our leaving it is His keeping that assures us.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#56
i would think that believinging in a shepherd who is unable to save to the uttermost, who cannot be trusted to be faithful to keep you, having a hope that is in no wise sure, is to have a house built on sand.

what a curious post
The faith that saves is not 'I trust and believe that once I am saved I am always saved'.

The faith that saves is 'I trust and believe that Christ is the payment for my sins'.

Keep believing the latter and you will have the security of Christ's salvation. Stop believing the latter and you lose the security of Christ's salvation.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#57
If you can decide to leave God then you were never truly His, because it is not our leaving it is His keeping that assures us.
If that's the measure of really being saved then you can never know in this lifetime if you are really saved. Until you die there is always tomorrow's failure to show that you were never really saved to begin with. That's a pretty insecure gospel. But so many are sure it's the doctrine of security and assurance.

The Bible's version of the security of salvation is simple: 'Keep believing'. And the Bible's version of assurance is act out your faith in your daily life so you can see for yourself that you have the Spirit of God inside of you in salvation. Why are so many Christians vehemently opposed to these simple, logical, Biblical truths?
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#58
and since i know that He is both able and faithful i can trust that He will never lose me?

IOW i am eternally saved?

groovy
Knowing that Christ is both able and faithful to keep you and never lose you is one thing. Actually putting your trust in that is quite another. See the difference? The first argument is not the gospel. The second one is.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
13,419
113
58
#59
That would mean that once a person becomes a Christian they become a robot and can never decide to leave God, nor to stay- which would mean that once we are saved our freewill is taken away. Sorry, I do not believe that, and Scripture does not support that. The bible would not say "no longer covered by Christ's blood" if it were not possible to happen.
Our free will is not taken away once we are saved, so we do not become robots and also, born again Christians become new creations in Christ and are adopted into God’s family. Hebrews 10:26 does not teach that Christians lose their salvation, as I have already explained to you numerous times.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#60
As well, I would suggest you do further studies on Calvin, he studied both Greek and Hebrew and knew far more than a fraction since he studied under a professor of Greek instruction.
Did you know Calvinism itself asserts that no one can know they are of the elect in this life?


There is no other Gospel than the finished work of Christ Jesus and His power to save us eternally by grace through faith.
That is why you should continue to believe in the finished work of Christ. The salvation and life he gives never ends like it did under the first covenant.