If homosexuality is a sin, then why didn't Jesus say anything about it?

[Dan_473]

as with so many situations involving rulemaking or Rule keeping, it seems clear until you get down to the nitty-gritty.

The Bible passages commonly used when talking about homosexuality, do they clearly refer to both male and female?

 

[Slayer]

as with so many situations involving rulemaking or Rule keeping, it seems clear until you get down to the nitty-gritty.

The Bible passages commonly used when talking about homosexuality, do they clearly refer to both male and female?

Roman 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

There’s an implication in Romans 1:26 that lesbianism is even worse than male homosexuality.

Notice the phrase “even their women.” The text suggest that it is more common for men to engage in sexual depravity, and when women begin to do it, that is a sign things are getting really bad. Men usually have much stronger sex drives than women, and so are more prone to sexual deviancy.

When women commit unnatural sexual acts, then the degree of immorality has truly become shameful. Lesbianism is evidence of people being given over to “through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves”

 

[UnderGrace]

as with so many situations involving rulemaking or Rule keeping, it seems clear until you get down to the nitty-gritty.

The Bible passages commonly used when talking about homosexuality, do they clearly refer to both male and female?

Who are the rules for us or God?

 

[preston39]

Yea but someone may have sex before marriage over and over.... And lie over and over... And get angry over and over... And drink over and over.

Everyone perpetually sins. That doesn't really set them apart. How many times should you forgive someone?

b....,
The Bible says ........without end.
Just as G-d forgives you and I.......without end.

 

[Dan_473]

Who are the rules for us or God?

Well, which rules did you mean? The rules in Leviticus probably aren't for me.

 

[UnderGrace]

Well, which rules did you mean? The rules in Leviticus probably aren't for me.

Agreed, I think I understand your earlier comment now.

 

[Dan_473]

Roman 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

There’s an implication in Romans 1:26 that lesbianism is even worse than male homosexuality.

Notice the phrase “even their women.” The text suggest that it is more common for men to engage in sexual depravity, and when women begin to do it, that is a sign things are getting really bad. Men usually have much stronger sex drives than women, and so are more prone to sexual deviancy.

When women commit unnatural sexual acts, then the degree of immorality has truly become shameful. Lesbianism is evidence of people being given over to “through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves”

yes, there is that implication

that's one reason I asked do they
clearly
refer to both male and female?

what we perceive as an implication can be heavily influenced by our culture and upbringing. It kind of gets down to nitty-gritty things. when Paul says the natural function of the woman what does he mean? does he mean heterosexual activity? Or certain roles or activities expected of a woman in Paul's mind?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Roman 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

There’s an implication in Romans 1:26 that lesbianism is even worse than male homosexuality.

Notice the phrase “even their women.” The text suggest that it is more common for men to engage in sexual depravity, and when women begin to do it, that is a sign things are getting really bad. Men usually have much stronger sex drives than women, and so are more prone to sexual deviancy.

When women commit unnatural sexual acts, then the degree of immorality has truly become shameful. Lesbianism is evidence of people being given over to “through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves”

Even is not a good translation of that word (τέ) in Romans 1:26. Both is a better translation because it ties in with verse 27 (For both females ... and males...)

G5037 τέ te (teh') prt.
1. both or also

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

yes, there is that implication

that's one reason I asked do they
clearly
refer to both male and female?

what we perceive as an implication can be heavily influenced by our culture and upbringing. It kind of gets down to nitty-gritty things. when Paul says the natural function of the woman what does he mean? does he mean heterosexual activity? Or certain roles or activities expected of a woman in Paul's mind?

I think the implication is pretty clear since he says in Romans 1:26 that both females do such-and-such and males do likewise (in verse 27).

 

[Deva_1972]

I think its kind of funny how everyone who tries to justify this says 'its not in the bible' *rolls eyes* and if we are talking about people being born with a certain tendency towards liking someone of the opposite sex and saying its perfectly fine to live this way, then on that same line of thought, then people could easily say that "we should accept people who like children and who want to live this way" - it makes no sense. Yes, we are to love them and be kind, but not agreeing with them acting on it doesn't make us haters. I also have much more compassion with someone who is genuinely struggling with same sex attraction because they feel they were born in the wrong body than with someone who is in relationships with both men and women just for the sake of it, if that makes sense.

 

[Dan_473]

I think the implication is pretty clear since he says in Romans 1:26 that both females do such-and-such and males do likewise (in verse 27).

I hear what you're saying, but at the same time it's very easy to take our cultural expectations from today and read them back into the text.

I have some familiarity with Reading New Testament Greek, and I don't see a strong implication there.

It's further Complicated by
τέ καί appearing together in verse 27.
https://biblehub.com/greek/5037.htm

 

[Endoscopy]

as with so many situations involving rulemaking or Rule keeping, it seems clear until you get down to the nitty-gritty.

The Bible passages commonly used when talking about homosexuality, do they clearly refer to both male and female?

If anyone is unclear homosexuality is considered an abomination in both the Old and New Testaments. Also here are the 613 laws in the Torah.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I hear what you're saying, but at the same time it's very easy to take our cultural expectations from today and read them back into the text.

I have some familiarity with Reading New Testament Greek, and I don't see a strong implication there.

It's further Complicated by
τέ καί appearing together in verse 27.
https://biblehub.com/greek/5037.htm

Explain why that complicates anything. Don't force your modern linguistic expectations or norms on an ancient writing, or Paul's style.

 

[Endoscopy]

The thread title is ludicrous on a Christian site. All Christians understand that Jesus was God incarnate. Jesus stated, "The Father and I are one." The Bible is the Word of God. Therefore Jesus caused the condemnation of homosexuality to be written. Thus quoting the verses against homosexuality is quoting Jesus.

 

[Chris122]

Hello Blanche,

First of all, Jesus did in fact speak regarding this sin in referring to sexual immorality, which means of every type. And secondly, the word of God states that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." This means that the prophets and the apostles where writing and speaking through the Holy Spirit, which means that God is the author of His word. So yes, Jesus did speak about homosexuality. Here are a couple of examples:

"For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. Likewise, the men abandoned natural relations with women and burned with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

"Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things are worthy of death, they not only continue to do these things, but also approve of those who practice them." - Rom.1:26-27, 32

"In like manner, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who indulged in sexual immorality and pursued strange flesh, are on display as an example of those who sustain the punishment of eternal fire. " - Jude 7

These are just examples of scriptures which are God-breathed and there are many, many more regarding this subject.

Read Romans 1 : 27

 

[Ahwatukee]

Read Romans 1 : 27

Thanks Chris,

Yes, I am well aware of the information regarding same-sex in Romans 1:27. In fact, if you will look in the post above, I mentioned Rom.1:26-27, 32.

 

[Dan_473]

If anyone is unclear homosexuality is considered an abomination in both the Old and New Testaments. Also here are the 613 laws in the Torah.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

the 613 number is traditional, it depends how you count.

I'm not aware of a passage in the scriptures that connects female homosexuality with the word abomination. Perhaps it's there and I'm just not seeing it. Please post the passage you're looking at, if you wish.

 

[Dan_473]

Explain why that complicates anything. Don't force your modern linguistic expectations or norms on an ancient writing, or Paul's style.

did you look at the URL?

Especially section 2 of the
Thayer's?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

did you look at the URL?

Especially section 2 of the
Thayer's?

No, I didn't look at the link, but now I just did, and I really don't want to have to wade through that to try to figure out what you're meaning to say.

 

[Dan_473]

The thread title is ludicrous on a Christian site. All Christians understand that Jesus was God incarnate. Jesus stated, "The Father and I are one." The Bible is the Word of God. Therefore Jesus caused the condemnation of homosexuality to be written. Thus quoting the verses against homosexuality is quoting Jesus.

I've noticed this pattern coming up frequently when people want to justify keeping Old Testament rules.

Jesus and the father are one. Therefore Jesus and the father are the same in every respect. Moreover Jesus and yhwh are the same in every respect. yhwh is the speaker in The Book of Leviticus, therefore every commandment in The Book of Leviticus is given by Jesus, when Jesus says keep my Commandments he's referring to the Book of Leviticus.

I believe that Jesus is God, and I believe that Jesus and the father are one.

But saying that Jesus and yhwh are identical, the same in every respect, creates problems in my opinion.

One example is the opening of Psalm 110, where
yhwh is speaking to the Messiah.