PROVING THE TRINITY IS A BIBLICAL DOCTRINE

[Zmouth]

now, I give you this for thought- did Jesus say " I will pray the Father and He will send the Comforter ....... ", or did He say ' I will pray myself and I will send me.........?

I think he would ask the Father and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.

Seeing that the Holy Ghost is the invisible light made in the image invisible God, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; But of course you know in thine heart, that the comforter is the LORD who is the God of truth in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

 

[Noose]

If you believe The Father is God, and the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, why would anyone get hung up on the word Trinity? It's just a descriptive name of the tri-une nature of God.

And why would anyone get hung up for believing that the Father/Son/Holy spirit are distinct authorities of God who is one person in one being?
I know why i get hung up, because someone also believes that that the Father is not the son and the son is not the Holy spirit- now you need to show me this in the bible.

 

[Noose]

You just did when say that Jesus was the eternal God in the flesh.

The eternal can not be created and neither can it change in nature or form. If the eternal can change in nature or form then it can be created so there really isn't logical argument against the three divine persons of the trinity each being God yet by nature are one God.

You still did not catch my arguments. The Father/Son/Holy spirit are not persons but authorities of God.
Can authorities change? absolutely. The owner of these authorities is one person and one being- Jesus.
What is demonstrated in the bible is that Jesus is the Father/Son/Holy spirit at different times.

 

[Noose]

because he ( and no one else ) told them to pray in anyone's name.

I understand just fine. oneness is a lie, based on salvation by command keeping. oneness is just another disguise for legalism.

Nope.

The opposite is true- Trinity is a lie.
You are yet to show how three persons can be one being and a verse that says the father is not the son and the son is the Holy spirit.
1, 2, Go..

 

[gb9]

Nope.

The opposite is true- Trinity is a lie.
You are yet to show how three persons can be one being and a verse that says the father is not the son and the son is the Holy spirit.
1, 2, Go..

I already told you. the best and simplest is - I ( 1 ) will pray to the Father ( 2 ) and He will send the Comforter ( 3 ).

now, of course Jesus said " I and the Father are one ". he also said " my Father is greater than I ), and " in my Father's house their are many mansions ".

it's called the mystery of the Godhead. study that sometime. because it is TRUE.

 

[Noose]

I think he would ask the Father and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.

Seeing that the Holy Ghost is the invisible light made in the image invisible God, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; But of course you know in thine heart, that the comforter is the LORD who is the God of truth in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

What are you trying to say? The comforter is Jesus and not a different person from the person of Jesus.

John 14: 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforter to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless; I will come to you.
.....23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

John 16: 7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

If Jesus doesn't go, the comforter CAN NOT COME, but if Jesus goes, the comforter COMES. How distinct are these persons?
Jesus also clearly says He will not leave them comfortless, He will come to them.
Jesus also tells them that they already know the comforter because He there with them.

Jesus is claiming to be the comforter here.
These issues about an invisible light being made in the image of God are just your own.

 

[Noose]

I already told you. the best and simplest is - I ( 1 ) will pray to the Father ( 2 ) and He will send the Comforter ( 3 ).

now, of course Jesus said " I and the Father are one ". he also said " my Father is greater than I ), and " in my Father's house their are many mansions ".

it's called the mystery of the Godhead. study that sometime. because it is TRUE.

I don't like it when you start arguing how you know i'm wrong and end up saying that God is a mystery. If you are convinced that God is three distinct persons then you must also show how distinct persons can be one, don't pull mystery card on me.
Yes, God is a mystery, that doesn't mean His nature is a mystery, then why is He trying to tell us who He is? so that we can get confused in mysteries?!!

 

[gb9]

I don't like it when you start arguing how you know i'm wrong and end up saying that God is a mystery. If you are convinced that God is three distinct persons then you must also show how distinct persons can be one, don't pull mystery card on me.
Yes, God is a mystery, that doesn't mean His nature is a mystery, then why is He trying to tell us who He is? so that we can get confused in mysteries?!!

well, someone has a pride problem. can't take being corrected.

well, here is another example - mount of transfiguration- God the Father comes down and says of the Son " this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. hear Him".

did the father say " hear Me " ? no. did the Father say ' Hear me through Him " no. hear HIM.

 

[Noose]

I already told you. the best and simplest is - I ( 1 ) will pray to the Father ( 2 ) and He will send the Comforter ( 3 ).

now, of course Jesus said " I and the Father are one ". he also said " my Father is greater than I ), and " in my Father's house their are many mansions ".

it's called the mystery of the Godhead. study that sometime. because it is TRUE.

Nope. God is not a mystery, His ways are mysterious but:

Jer 9: 24 But let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD,who exercises loving devotion, justice and righteousness on the earth— for I delight in these things,” declares the LORD.

You must know God

 

[Noose]

well, someone has a pride problem. can't take being corrected.

well, here is another example - mount of transfiguration- God the Father comes down and says of the Son " this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. hear Him".

did the father say " hear Me " ? no. did the Father say ' Hear me through Him " no. hear HIM.

That event is similar to the baptism event. It was not something physical but it happened in the spirit- the reason they were all engulfed in the clouds means that it was a spiritual as opposed to a physical event. It is a symbolic presentation of the authorities of God.
The Father can not physically come down from anywhere when Jesus says He (Father) is inside Him. The father can not speak from anywhere when He is supposed to be in Jesus.
When i say it was a spiritual event, i mean it happened in the minds of the witnesses just like the baptism event- a voice was heard from the heavens but only John the baptist and Jesus heard the voice yet there were so many people around.

 

[PennEd]

Why would anyone think God couldn't divide Himself into 3 distinct entities?

There are so many passages that deal with this I don't know where to start! GB has named some already.

But how about God the Father speaking at Jesus' Baptism? At that event we had all 3 distinct members of the Godhead present and distinct! What about at the transfiguration? Same deal.

How about Jesus saying that ONLY the Father in Heaven knew the hour and day of Jesus's second coming, that even HE didn't know!

I mean the list goes on and on.

 

[PennEd]

I don't like it when you start arguing how you know i'm wrong and end up saying that God is a mystery. If you are convinced that God is three distinct persons then you must also show how distinct persons can be one, don't pull mystery card on me.
Yes, God is a mystery, that doesn't mean His nature is a mystery, then why is He trying to tell us who He is? so that we can get confused in mysteries?!!

So the classic example of 3 distinct but the same, is H2O, water. Each has their own distinct qualities, yet they are the same, yet distinct.

Water can be ice, a solid, steam, a gas, and liquid.

Yet ALL 3 are water or H2O.

 

[Latour]

Here is a mystery...

Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. John 14:23

The Father making His abode in us ??? How???

By the Holy Spirit...

When we are filled with the Spirit we can be said to be also filled with the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit is the actual connection between the Father and the Son. When we enter into the Spirit we are entering into the love that exists between them...in the Godhead.

What is important is to connect with God in the Spirit and become ambassadors of His love in the world. When we have Christ we also have the Father. When we are filled with the Spirit we are abiding in the love of the Father and the Son.

 

[Noose]

Why would anyone think God couldn't divide Himself into 3 distinct entities?

There are so many passages that deal with this I don't know where to start! GB has named some already.

But how about God the Father speaking at Jesus' Baptism? At that event we had all 3 distinct members of the Godhead present and distinct! What about at the transfiguration? Same deal.

How about Jesus saying that ONLY the Father in Heaven knew the hour and day of Jesus's second coming, that even HE didn't know!

I mean the list goes on and on.

Nope.
You think that these events prove your doctrine right, how about you answer this question:

Q1. Is Jesus one person and one being by himself or is He a third of a being?
Q2. Is the Father one person and one being by himself or is He a third of a being?

You blaspheme but you don't even realize.

 

[Noose]

So the classic example of 3 distinct but the same, is H2O, water. Each has their own distinct qualities, yet they are the same, yet distinct.

Water can be ice, a solid, steam, a gas, and liquid.

Yet ALL 3 are water or H2O.

This is a good example of three distinct authorities of God who is one person and one being- but going ahead and saying ice can not be steam and steam can not be water is absurd.

 

[Noose]

How about Jesus saying that ONLY the Father in Heaven knew the hour and day of Jesus's second coming, that even HE didn't know!

I mean the list goes on and on.

Jesus actually knows the hour- He is the Father. Jesus did not say ".. i don't know the hour..", He said the son doesn't because the son is the authority here on earth which was to be attained by believers.
In another place He says:

Acts 1:7 Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.

Jesus is the first and the last/ the beginning and the end- how then can you claim that He doesn't know an hour which is well within the first and the last?

It is not for the authority of the son to know the times and we are the sons, He is our Father. And in any case, this doesn't prove two distinct persons in one being.

 

[PennEd]

Nope.
You think that these events prove your doctrine right, how about you answer this question:

Q1. Is Jesus one person and one being by himself or is He a third of a being?
Q2. Is the Father one person and one being by himself or is He a third of a being?

You blaspheme but you don't even realize.

Well, why should I answer your questions when you skipped right past the point that ALL 3 members were present AND distinct at Jesus's Baptism?

You are trying to use your 3 pound human brain and intellect to put the Creator who created your brain, and EVERYTHING else in the Universe and in Heaven, to prove what exactly?

Jesus is fully God, and fully man. The mechanics of how He accomplished that is waaay above our pay grade!

It is interesting to note that as a person begins to lose a discussion they more and more resort to attacks and name calling. I'm fully secure in the knowledge of the Lord and with the use of the Trinity. Therefore I see no need to reciprocate your behavior.

 

[Noose]

Well, why should I answer your questions when you skipped right past the point that ALL 3 members were present AND distinct at Jesus's Baptism?

You are trying to use your 3 pound human brain and intellect to put the Creator who created your brain, and EVERYTHING else in the Universe and in Heaven, to prove what exactly?

Jesus is fully God, and fully man. The mechanics of how He accomplished that is waaay above our pay grade!

It is interesting to note that as a person begins to lose a discussion they more and more resort to attacks and name calling. I'm fully secure in the knowledge of the Lord and with the use of the Trinity. Therefore I see no need to reciprocate your behavior.

I made an argument but you chose to see my arguments as name calling. That's fine with me, never my intentions here.

I have answered the question on the baptism event maybe you didn't like the answer but i'll do it again anyway.

That event as much as it is represented physical happened in the spiritual realm. Only Jesus and John witnessed that event (heard the voice and saw the dove). It was important for John to witness because of the work he was to do. The authorities of the Father and the Holy spirit are in Jesus and there's no other way of expressing these authorities other than making it appear so to the witness who was John at this moment and Peter on the mount of transfiguration.

1. Saying that the Father is distinct because He speaks from a different physical location can not be reconciled with the fact that you also think they are one.
2. The fact that Jesus as He stood there being baptist was one person and being by himself proves your doctrine wrong- because you have to otherwise think that the Father and the Holy spirit are not beings

 

[PennEd]

I made an argument but you chose to see my arguments as name calling. That's fine with me, never my intentions here.

I have answered the question on the baptism event maybe you didn't like the answer but i'll do it again anyway.

That event as much as it is represented physical happened in the spiritual realm. Only Jesus and John witnessed that event (heard the voice and saw the dove). It was important for John to witness because of the work he was to do. The authorities of the Father and the Holy spirit are in Jesus and there's no other way of expressing these authorities other than making it appear so to the witness who was John at this moment and Peter on the mount of transfiguration.

1. Saying that the Father is distinct because He speaks from a different physical location can not be reconciled with the fact that you also think they are one.
2. The fact that Jesus as He stood there being baptist was one person and being by himself proves your doctrine wrong- because you have to otherwise think that the Father and the Holy spirit are not beings

Umm... Newsflash! Telling someone they are blaspheming the Lord is about as serious an attack as you can level against a Christian. Ya might wanna remember that one.

As for the rest of this post, it is filled with YOUR conjecture, YOUR speculation that there weren't 3 distinct members of the Godhead present. It makes ZERO difference whether it was only John, or other limited people that saw all 3.

The WORD says there WERE 3 distinct and separate members of the Godhead present.

 

[Noose]

Umm... Newsflash! Telling someone they are blaspheming the Lord is about as serious an attack as you can level against a Christian. Ya might wanna remember that one.

As for the rest of this post, it is filled with YOUR conjecture, YOUR speculation that there weren't 3 distinct members of the Godhead present. It makes ZERO difference whether it was only John, or other limited people that saw all 3.

The WORD says there WERE 3 distinct and separate members of the Godhead present.

Ok, the issue about blasphemy- i withdraw.

3 distinct persons during Jesus' baptism- How were they one being at that moment?