Calvinism vs. Arminianism?

[Angela53510]

I hope you just didn't repent, but believed the gospel of Jesus Christ and called upon Him to save you. Many understand that they are sinners and repent. But what are they repenting to? Who are they turning to for forgiveness?

Are you kidding me? I turned to Jesus, I believed his death on the cross paid the price for my sins! I knew when Jesus spoke to me, he was my Saviour, my Redeemer!

But even more I knew Jesus was the King of kings, and Lord of lords! And I have been following him ever since, reading the Bible daily, praying, trusting him, loving and worshipping him, the Name that is above all names.

That is 38 years of Jesus leading me. And calling me to seminary, and now to do my PhD. Studying to show myself approved, and maybe to help others know Jesus better.

What an arrogant person you are, John! You know of my faith, yet you would accuse the brethren? Sounds like you are the one playing for the wrong team!

 

[Slayer]

This is very ironic considering you yourself have promoted Calvinistic ideas.

If ever there was a doctrine that sought to make everything "air tight" so to speak with explanation upon explanation that would be it.

Scripture definitely has a role to play in the successful walk of the believer.
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
2 Timothy 3:16

I promote Calvin's ideas because he came the closest to interpreting the scriptures correctly. He was what we call Biblically correct and we believe Arminius perverted the scriptures by adding and subtracting scriptures.

Yes Calvin's interpretation is air tight, he really hit the nail on the head. That's why he became immortalized as one of Gods greatest servants.

As for the importance of scripture for the Christians walk, you are better off knowing nothing than knowing the wrong thing. God doesn't reveal the truth of the scriptures to everyone who studies, He hides it from most so they will go to the grave and never understand them. He reveals them only to His elect, the rest will get it wrong 100% of the time.

 

[John146]

If we are to take the word "World" in the context of the above verse literally, it would mean that God failed in His mission to save the world. We refuse to believe in a God who fails in anything. Everything God has revealed about Himself suggests that God never fails in anything period.

This is we the two views clash, one suggests that God desires to save everyone and the other suggests that God saves every single person whom He wants to. We believe that God fulfills every one of His desires, we also believe that everything is exactly as God preordained it to be.
Nothing happens outside of Gods will, so salvation is absolutely by His will and so is every other thing that happens in the universe. He is sovereign over every hair which falls from our head.

Christ did not fail in dying for everyone, giving everyone the same free choice unto salvation and never said He was going save everyone that ever existed.

Are you kidding me? I turned to Jesus, I believed his death on the cross paid the price for my sins! I knew when Jesus spoke to me, he was my Saviour, my Redeemer!

But even more I knew Jesus was the King of kings, and Lord of lords! And I have been following him ever since, reading the Bible daily, praying, trusting him, loving and worshipping him, the Name that is above all names.

That is 38 years of Jesus leading me. And calling me to seminary, and now to do my PhD. Studying to show myself approved, and maybe to help others know Jesus better.

What an arrogant person you are, John! You know of my faith, yet you would accuse the brethren? Sounds like you are the one playing for the wrong team!

My apologies Angela. I didn't mean to come across in that manner.

 

[Slayer]

Well, just let me say that I couldn't care less what Calvin believes, nor Arminius. But of course, I am just a "dumb" Christian who happened to hear the gospel and read the Bible searching out for myself the truths dwelling there - I came to understand that when God said I needed to believe in the only begotten Son . . . that I needed to confess Jesus as Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead - I didn't think it was foolishness but the truth and so I trusted God and believed in Jesus Christ. I once was "dead in sin" but that "dead" does not mean "in the grave dead" - I still could reason out the scripture.

One is saved by Romans 10:17 and Romans 10:9,10 and the process is Ephesians 1:13.

You sound like a saved person, I would warn you to guard your heart against pride. I sense a bit of pride on your part, you're trying to take some credit for your salvation.
You should give all the glory to the Lord who saved you and don't brag about how smart you were to work out that the Gospel is a good deal. All we need to do to receive eternal life in paradise, is believe in Christ. That's so easy yet impossible form the vast majority of smart people.

I'm glad for you, but don't think that you deserve salvation more than those poor souls who are sealed for damnation, they will never accept the greatest free gift of all, because it's foolishness to them.

 

[Slayer]

I truly pray you do not really mean this, it is a very scary sentiment.

If you don't follow Christ, you are not a Christian. If you question Christ, it means you don't trust Him. Faith is blind, so we follow as blind sheep. There are some wise Goats and sly Wolves among the flock so beware.

 

[Slayer]

Christ did not fail in dying for everyone, giving everyone the same free choice unto salvation and never said He was going save everyone that ever existed.


My apologies Angela. I didn't mean to come across in that manner.

God created every person, He created the brain with all of it's functions. He created us with the ability to chose, He created some to choose Him and He created others who would reject Him.

We believe God created everything, including the part of your brain which chooses to believe in Him or reject Him.

 

[PennEd]

Iv'e heard it said that a Queen of England said, that she believes she was saved by an "M". So it's perfectly Biblical to say there aren't many Einsteins that are saved. But it doesn't say there aren't ANY, just not Many.

! Corinthians:26 For [k]you see your calling, brethren, that not Many wise according to the flesh, not Many mighty, not Many [l]noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the [m]base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

 

[John146]

God created every person, He created the brain with all of it's functions. He created us with the ability to chose, He created some to choose Him and He created others who would reject Him.

We believe God created everything, including the part of your brain which chooses to believe in Him or reject Him.

Contradictory thoughts here...God created us to choose, but He created some to choose Him...that's not choice...He created some to reject Him...again, that's not choice.

 

[John146]

If we are to take the word "World" in the context of the above verse literally, it would mean that God failed in His mission to save the world. We refuse to believe in a God who fails in anything. Everything God has revealed about Himself suggests that God never fails in anything period.

This is we the two views clash, one suggests that God desires to save everyone and the other suggests that God saves every single person whom He wants to. We believe that God fulfills every one of His desires, we also believe that everything is exactly as God preordained it to be.
Nothing happens outside of Gods will, so salvation is absolutely by His will and so is every other thing that happens in the universe. He is sovereign over every hair which falls from our head.

Is it God's will for your life to sin? Do you sin? Is God weak because His will is not carried out?

Faulty thinking to suggest God is weak if He died for all, but not all will come to Him.

 

[Slayer]

Contradictory thoughts here...God created us to choose, but He created some to choose Him...that's not choice...He created some to reject Him...again, that's not choice.

They were created with the ability to only choose according to the way their brain and reasoning were wired. God wired some to believe and others to reject, they can't choose what they weren't created to choose.

I didn't word the previous comment very well, I was in a hurry to go out and I rushed it.

 

[notuptome]

They were created with the ability to only choose according to the way their brain and reasoning were wired. God wired some to believe and others to reject, they can't choose what they weren't created to choose.

I didn't word the previous comment very well, I was in a hurry to go out and I rushed it.

Dumbest thing I have heard lately. God created all men to glorify Him. No one is wired to rebel against God. God never made a soul He did not love. God even loves you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[UnderGrace]

They were created with the ability to only choose according to the way their brain and reasoning were wired. God wired some to believe and others to reject, they can't choose what they weren't created to choose.

I didn't word the previous comment very well, I was in a hurry to go out and I rushed it.

You have absolutely no evidence to support this, unless you have the credentials I would stay away from neuroscience to support your ideas.

Follow your own doctrine and just say that God gives them the faith and the grace to believe.

It is not a case of the believer's "cooperation" with grace; the will is first actuated through grace
The Institutes of Christian Religion, John Calvin

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You sound like a saved person, I would warn you to guard your heart against pride. I sense a bit of pride on your part, you're trying to take some credit for your salvation.
You should give all the glory to the Lord who saved you and don't brag about how smart you were to work out that the Gospel is a good deal. All we need to do to receive eternal life in paradise, is believe in Christ. That's so easy yet impossible form the vast majority of smart people.

I'm glad for you, but don't think that you deserve salvation more than those poor souls who are sealed for damnation, they will never accept the greatest free gift of all, because it's foolishness to them.

You can "sense" pride on my part? . . . I just did what God asked me to do - believe in the only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, confess him as Lord and believed in my heart that God raised him from the dead. I take no credit for the Spirit born within me when I obeyed. Those "poor souls who are sealed for damnation" made their choice - they rejected the gospel - God did NOT "seal them for damnation".

 

[Slayer]

Is it God's will for your life to sin? Do you sin? Is God weak because His will is not carried out?

Faulty thinking to suggest God is weak if He died for all, but not all will come to Him.

We don't believe that theory, we take the Bible literally.

Yes everything that happens in the universe is Gods will, He wouldn't allow an ant to die unless it is His will.

That's why we say, that the God we believe in is almighty. The word all mighty means almighty, you guys won't allow Him to be all mighty. You feel an irresistible urge to control Him and make Him conform to your understanding and expectations, news flash. It's not going to happen, He is no respecter of men.

Don't forget that God hates sin so much that He destroyed billions of people in Noah's flood, and He has cast around 150 billion into hell since then. I'm sick of people preaching about the love of God only and ignoring the God of hate.

We believe God predestines and controls everything, including salvation. He has the right to choose because He owns us, we are like puppets so we should never assume we are something when we are nothing.

 

[UnderGrace]

We don't believe that theory, we take the Bible literally.

Yes everything that happens in the universe is Gods will, He wouldn't allow an ant to die unless it is His will.

That's why we say, that the God we believe in is almighty. The word all mighty means almighty, you guys won't allow Him to be all mighty. You feel an irresistible urge to control Him and make Him conform to your understanding and expectations, news flash. It's not going to happen, He is no respecter of men.

Don't forget that God hates sin so much that He destroyed billions of people in Noah's flood, and He has cast around 150 billion into hell since then. I'm sick of people preaching about the love of God only and ignoring the God of hate.

We believe God predestines and controls everything, including salvation. He has the right to choose because He owns us, we are like puppets so we should never assume we are something when we are nothing.

So you also believe God willed Adam and Eve to sin?
Do you believe God is the author of evil as some Calvinists do?

 

[Slayer]

You can "sense" pride on my part? . . . I just did what God asked me to do - believe in the only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, confess him as Lord and believed in my heart that God raised him from the dead. I take no credit for the Spirit born within me when I obeyed. Those "poor souls who are sealed for damnation" made their choice - they rejected the gospel - God did NOT "seal them for damnation".

I just got the sense that you took a bit of credit for making the wisest decision anyone could ever make. I just thank God for drawing me to Himself, I was just drawn along like a rag doll against my will so I take zero credit for my salvation.

 

[John146]

We don't believe that theory, we take the Bible literally.

Yes everything that happens in the universe is Gods will, He wouldn't allow an ant to die unless it is His will.

That's why we say, that the God we believe in is almighty. The word all mighty means almighty, you guys won't allow Him to be all mighty. You feel an irresistible urge to control Him and make Him conform to your understanding and expectations, news flash. It's not going to happen, He is no respecter of men.

Don't forget that God hates sin so much that He destroyed billions of people in Noah's flood, and He has cast around 150 billion into hell since then. I'm sick of people preaching about the love of God only and ignoring the God of hate.

We believe God predestines and controls everything, including salvation. He has the right to choose because He owns us, we are like puppets so we should never assume we are something when we are nothing.

Do you blame your sin on God's will?

 

[Slayer]

So you also believe God willed Adam and Eve to sin?
Do you believe God is the author of evil as some Calvinists do?

I believe God willed Adam and Eve would sin, because He had planned salvation before they were created.

We believe God created the the option to choose to do evil, and those who God doesn't restrain and draw to Himself will choose to do evil 100% the time rather than serve God.

 

[Slayer]

Do you blame your sin on God's will?

I thank God for paying for all of my past, present and all future sins without exception. I have back sliden more times than I can remember, I went back into the world and indulged in whatever sin I wanted then repented and He received me back every single time. So the sin problem was fully paid for by Christ, so it's not an issue for believers.

 

[John146]

I thank God for paying for all of my past, present and all future sins without exception. I have back sliden more times than I can remember, I went back into the world and indulged in whatever sin I wanted then repented and He received me back every single time. So the sin problem was fully paid for by Christ, so it's not an issue for believers.

Was your "back sliding" the will of God? Yes or no.