OSAS= House Built on Sand
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R
That and perhaps these people are struggling with doubt, and, living in failure as a Christian. They need to know as long as they don't go back to the world in outright unbelief and a denial of Christ that their faith in Christ, as weak as it may be, keeps them justified before the Father in heaven.
But 'once saved always saved' is the false gospel they have turned to to relieve the pressure of their doubts and sinful failures when the real answer is to keep believing Christ is the payment for their sins of weakness and ignorance and doubt they commit (no need to invent an ear tickling doctrine that says they are saved no matter what). And to remember the only sin Christ can't cover is the willful decision to go back to the world in unbelief. But 'once saved always saved' has deceived them into thinking they can go back to the world in defeat and they are still saved.
But 'once saved always saved' is the false gospel they have turned to to relieve the pressure of their doubts and sinful failures when the real answer is to keep believing Christ is the payment for their sins of weakness and ignorance and doubt they commit (no need to invent an ear tickling doctrine that says they are saved no matter what). And to remember the only sin Christ can't cover is the willful decision to go back to the world in unbelief. But 'once saved always saved' has deceived them into thinking they can go back to the world in defeat and they are still saved.
I believed at a point in time in the past and was born into God's family. I am continuing to believe in his sacrifice and hanging on to Jesus as my Savior.
Am I saved because I believe? Well - I am saved because God's grace has worked and is continuing to work in my heart so that I am able to respond by believing in Him! Praise the Lord!
Is that saving myself by works or self-effort? Of course not! Ridiculous!
Am I saved because I believe? Well - I am saved because God's grace has worked and is continuing to work in my heart so that I am able to respond by believing in Him! Praise the Lord!
Is that saving myself by works or self-effort? Of course not! Ridiculous!
THIS has to do with "inheritance" (the package deal we receive once we faithe on Christ):
Romans 8 -
"15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received [aorist indicative active] the Spirit of [divine] adoption of sons [not "as sons"], whereby we cry, Abba, Father."
The "adoption of sons" is not like our present-day "adopting someone TO BE our son," but the package-deal "inheritance" we receive when we believe on [trust in] Christ for salvation. It pertains to "the God-given right to act in His name," and we have this only by virtue of being connected "with [G4862] Christ" (IN Him).
Romans 8 -
"15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received [aorist indicative active] the Spirit of [divine] adoption of sons [not "as sons"], whereby we cry, Abba, Father."
The "adoption of sons" is not like our present-day "adopting someone TO BE our son," but the package-deal "inheritance" we receive when we believe on [trust in] Christ for salvation. It pertains to "the God-given right to act in His name," and we have this only by virtue of being connected "with [G4862] Christ" (IN Him).
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It's a good question Chester. There are at least 2 passages that somewhat deal with this question. In both passages we ALL at least walked liked the sons of disobedience who have the spirit of the prince of the power of the air. So it might be fair to say that if we were not literally children of the devil, we at least acted in a way that was indistinguishable from them.
Ephesians 2:2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Collosians 3:6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
So I was DEAD in my sins. Dead means NOT alive. Spiritually speaking I was dead. A dead person cannot do ANYTHING but be dead. There is no logical explanation as to why the desire came on me to even entertain the Gospel, much less believe and accept it. My life consisted of parties, and when the next one would come and most of the lists of bad, sinful stuff listed in several places. Why would I WANT to give that up?
Now my dead FLESH tries to come back to life ALL the time. And unfortunately I still sometimes forget that it IS dead and succumb to it and sin. This happens because of a failure to walk every moment in the Spirit. Because those are our only 2 options. Every second, of every day, we either walk in the Spirit or walk in the flesh.
To directly answer your question, whether a child of the devil, or just plain dead doesn't matter. What matters is that God drew me to Him. As I look back i can see exactly how He did that, and how He kept me physically alive, although I should have died several times over, UNTIL I was made His Child. I do not have an exact date of when that occurred, but I believe it was in 1992.
Ephesians 2:2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Collosians 3:6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
So I was DEAD in my sins. Dead means NOT alive. Spiritually speaking I was dead. A dead person cannot do ANYTHING but be dead. There is no logical explanation as to why the desire came on me to even entertain the Gospel, much less believe and accept it. My life consisted of parties, and when the next one would come and most of the lists of bad, sinful stuff listed in several places. Why would I WANT to give that up?
Now my dead FLESH tries to come back to life ALL the time. And unfortunately I still sometimes forget that it IS dead and succumb to it and sin. This happens because of a failure to walk every moment in the Spirit. Because those are our only 2 options. Every second, of every day, we either walk in the Spirit or walk in the flesh.
To directly answer your question, whether a child of the devil, or just plain dead doesn't matter. What matters is that God drew me to Him. As I look back i can see exactly how He did that, and how He kept me physically alive, although I should have died several times over, UNTIL I was made His Child. I do not have an exact date of when that occurred, but I believe it was in 1992.
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Why did you not answer my question?
I have 2 sons. For a whole host of reasons I may decide to give all to just one and "disinherit" the other. (I almost certainly won't do that). One may be more reliable, or worthy, or obedient. But in NO scenario would EITHER son no longer be my son. And although one may not inherit much, he will always be allowed on my land.
I have 2 sons. For a whole host of reasons I may decide to give all to just one and "disinherit" the other. (I almost certainly won't do that). One may be more reliable, or worthy, or obedient. But in NO scenario would EITHER son no longer be my son. And although one may not inherit much, he will always be allowed on my land.
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It is the goodness of God not the severity of God that leads men to repentance.
Dead in this illustration is Spiritual death not physical death. Calvinists often overstate Spiritual death in relation to physical death. Man cannot save himself but God is merciful and reaches down into the miry clay to lift men out. Those who perish are those who turn away from the goodness of God and raise their goodness up in place of Gods goodness.
Why did some in the camp turn away from the firey serpent instead of just looking upon it? They choose death as opposed to life by believing.
Nu 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Dead in this illustration is Spiritual death not physical death. Calvinists often overstate Spiritual death in relation to physical death. Man cannot save himself but God is merciful and reaches down into the miry clay to lift men out. Those who perish are those who turn away from the goodness of God and raise their goodness up in place of Gods goodness.
Why did some in the camp turn away from the firey serpent instead of just looking upon it? They choose death as opposed to life by believing.
Nu 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I did answer your question by pointing out that your point is irrelevant because birth is not a guarantee of inheritance. Numerous people in the bible who were rightful heirs were disinherited from receiving the promises of GOD (e.g., Ishmael, Esau, Reuben, King Saul, the nation of Israel, etc).
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Thanks, Penned, for the beautiful and clear response and testimony! Your are a wonderful man!
My quibble has nothing to do with your character or testimony - that speaks for itself.
But your analogy of "once a son then always a son" just does not stand up to careful analysis. You use it to say that once a Christian then we are always a Christian. But when I point out that we were all children of the Devil, but are no longer children of the Devil, you just skirt the issue. If "once a son always a son" is true, then once a child of the Devil always a child of the Devil.
My quibble has nothing to do with your character or testimony - that speaks for itself.
But your analogy of "once a son then always a son" just does not stand up to careful analysis. You use it to say that once a Christian then we are always a Christian. But when I point out that we were all children of the Devil, but are no longer children of the Devil, you just skirt the issue. If "once a son always a son" is true, then once a child of the Devil always a child of the Devil.
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And? IS it? Yes or no answer...
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I said I spiritually dead Roger. In that dead state, there was NO way I would have chose Him. That is what Ephesians 2: 8-9 are about. WE CANNOT muster the faith to believe. That faith has to be a gift, given to us by God. WE will ALWAYS choose sin unless He gives us the faith to believe in His Son.
You can't really explain why you believe the Creator of everything, became a man, allowed Himself to be tortured, crucified, and die, and raised to life on the 3rd day. You just KNOW you believe.
Sure. NOW you could point to Scripture, the fulfillment of prophecy, your new birth, to other Christians and they might understand, but the Word tells us this is foolishness to us before we are saved. And if you step outside the Christian perspective for sec, it IS foolishness.
I could just as easily say you have to collect the tails of 25 duck-billed platypus's to be saved. Or accomplish the 5 pillars of islam. Or follow the entire Mosaic Law. Etc....
These are just as believable a way to salvation as Believing in Jesus to the dead unsaved.
You can't really explain why you believe the Creator of everything, became a man, allowed Himself to be tortured, crucified, and die, and raised to life on the 3rd day. You just KNOW you believe.
Sure. NOW you could point to Scripture, the fulfillment of prophecy, your new birth, to other Christians and they might understand, but the Word tells us this is foolishness to us before we are saved. And if you step outside the Christian perspective for sec, it IS foolishness.
I could just as easily say you have to collect the tails of 25 duck-billed platypus's to be saved. Or accomplish the 5 pillars of islam. Or follow the entire Mosaic Law. Etc....
These are just as believable a way to salvation as Believing in Jesus to the dead unsaved.
Is continuing to believe a "work of the works gospel"? Absolutely not! Continuing to believe is a work of God's grace in the heart
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R....,
True...and it is interesting that the OSAS interpretation of scriptures...without scriptures, I might add.....is not found as part of the christian teachings or applications before the 1960's....that we can find in research...so far.
Why is that a significant point......because we had a moral and social revolution in that era and because of guilt from having been taught in school and church many had to find a way to ...tickle their ears...and relieve their guilt. So, several new age religion interpretations were forthcoming to accomplish that goal...OSAS is one of them. It is not biblical based..
True...and it is interesting that the OSAS interpretation of scriptures...without scriptures, I might add.....is not found as part of the christian teachings or applications before the 1960's....that we can find in research...so far.
Why is that a significant point......because we had a moral and social revolution in that era and because of guilt from having been taught in school and church many had to find a way to ...tickle their ears...and relieve their guilt. So, several new age religion interpretations were forthcoming to accomplish that goal...OSAS is one of them. It is not biblical based..
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