Colossians 1:23
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Now what? Well I've been saved to accomplish the works God prepared beforehand. I also still inhabit this stinky dead flesh that constantly tries to tell me it's still alive. And unfortunately, I still listen to it, when I'm not walking in the Spirit. So the indwelling Holy Spirit transforms me into the likeness of Jesus. I wish this transformation was instantaneous upon receiving Him. But I don't think it will be fully accomplished until physical death. So He is constantly refining me to burn out ANYTHING that interferes with that transformation.
That surely sounds like a "process........."
And, had you given thought to the OP instead of seeing who posted it, and prejudged the OP to not be worth your consideration, you may have realized that what you wrote above pretty much describes what Jesus, Paul, and Gill wrote, and what I mentioned......
Now, as for your attitude, I don't really care, you have displayed it for quite some time towards me............and, seriously, it really doesn't matter, for I don't value your thoughts towards me as being worthy of seeking.
IF you "reject" R.O.S.E. Theology, then that surely lends great credit towards it's truth!
That surely sounds like a "process........."
And, had you given thought to the OP instead of seeing who posted it, and prejudged the OP to not be worth your consideration, you may have realized that what you wrote above pretty much describes what Jesus, Paul, and Gill wrote, and what I mentioned......
Now, as for your attitude, I don't really care, you have displayed it for quite some time towards me............and, seriously, it really doesn't matter, for I don't value your thoughts towards me as being worthy of seeking.
IF you "reject" R.O.S.E. Theology, then that surely lends great credit towards it's truth!
BTW.......ROSE theology was not a factor considered for this Thread...........what was considered were the words both Christ and the Apostle Paul spoke. Christ, as recorded in Matthew, and Paul as recorded in Romans, Colossians, and a couple other Epistles that I have not posted yet. They surely are connected, as Paul himself said he ONLY PREACHED the Gospel of Christ. Meaning, should he preach another Gospel, he would be a false Apostle........
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Gill was a Calvanist Baptist, but he believed and wrote that eternal salvation could never be lost, and that is the foundational belief of OSAS is it not? 
You may get to it in two different ways......but, once there, you both hold the same beliefs...........so, maybe you shouldn't REJECT all of his teachings?
Now, concerning the OP...........and the purpose of this Thread, do you have any thoughts concerning the Scriptures posted?
You may get to it in two different ways......but, once there, you both hold the same beliefs...........so, maybe you shouldn't REJECT all of his teachings?
Now, concerning the OP...........and the purpose of this Thread, do you have any thoughts concerning the Scriptures posted?
More Commentaries to consider:
Colossians 1:23 | Bible Exposition Commentary
Colossians 1:23 (KJV) - Forerunner Commentary
Colossians 1:23 | Bible Exposition Commentary
Colossians 1:23 (KJV) - Forerunner Commentary
I'm virtually certain outside of when you presented your ROSE works doctrine I haven't addressed you in yrs, and before that, I actually DID find your posts enlightening. So not sure what "attitude" you are referring to. This thread IS about ROSE, and the passage you attach to it makes this works doctrine all the more disturbing.
This is the full passage:
Matthew 7:
I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
These guys, who THOUGHT they were saved BECAUSE of their obedience, and what THEY did, instead of trusting in what JESUS did, were actually NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH.
Jesus NEVER knew them NEVER created in them a NEW heart. NEVER made them a NEW creation.
It is NOT our obedience that secures our eternal destiny. It is Jesus Christ that does that.
I don't understand how you see the transformative work BY THE HOLY SPIRIT as the mechanism for Salvation. That is the RESULT of Salvation.
“My son, do not despise the [c]chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”
When I was physically born, I needed a whole lot of corrective transformation from my parents. I wasn't instantaneously born a conformed, well adjusted, obedient adult. The same holds true with my Spiritual birth.
7 If[d] you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no [e]chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
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Wow! That's GREAT man! And, I applaud, the efforts/works it must have taken you in overcoming this darkened world, and your hearing the Word of God, from which is where ALL believers start faith to growing. And, being baptized into Christ, thus giving unto Christ that which the Father gave Him. Whosoever will, may come! Tis a glorious season indeed! Even the angels in heaven rejoice! And, eternity begins at that very point of conversion! Let the refiner's fire commence!
We are now in an eternal spiritual body, within a not eternal flesh body! We have become "peculiar", as it is called in the Bible. Schizophrenic, may be another term, used these days. I rather like the way the "Phillips Bible" says it.
Ephesians 6:12 (PHILLIPS)
In conclusion be strong—not in yourselves but in the Lord, in the power of his boundless resource. Put on God’s complete armour so that you can successfully resist all the devil’s methods of attack. For our fight is not against any physical enemy: it is against organisations and powers that are spiritual. We are up against the unseen power that controls this dark world, and spiritual agents from the very headquarters of evil. Therefore you must wear the whole armour of God that you may be able to resist evil in its day of power, and that even when you have fought to a standstill you may still stand your ground. Take your stand then with truth as your belt, righteousness your breastplate, the Gospel of peace firmly on your feet, salvation as your helmet and in your hand the sword of the Spirit, the Word of God. Above all be sure you take faith as your shield, for it can quench every burning missile the enemy hurls at you. Pray at all times with every kind of spiritual prayer, keeping alert and persistent as you pray for all Christ’s men and women.
I don't much like, or care to "talk poilitics", here, in the BDF, but feel, it quite necessary, in the pointing out of "the works God prepared beforehand." And, the "growing process" entailed, from a "child of Light", to a "Son of Light."
Do you think it a "God Sent Miracle", that a personage such as "the Donald" came to be president? You should!
Do you think it a "coincidence", that the so called "populist movement" is exposing the "reprobate (unacceptable) minds", that just "seem" to be falling along "political party lines?" No such "critter" named coincidence!
Do you think it is the Father's Love for His children, that He gave to Christ, that these "blessed events" are taking place these days? To an extent? Yes! Yes, they are! But, children do not struggle very successfully, with that which Paul stated above. It is "when" people "IN Christ" start "rendering" that which is the Father's TO the Father!
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R
What I find interesting is how some 'once saved always saved' adherents will ignore the "you who practice lawlessness!" part in Matthew 7 and will take false comfort that they are saved because they aren't doing the "look at my works of ministry" part of Matthew 7, yet they live in lawlessness (sin).
John explains to us it is the person who practices lawlessness/sin that doesn't know Christ. This is just as true as it is true that you aren't saved if you are trying to earn your salvation. But this part about lawlessness (sin) is ignored by some (many?) 'once saved always saved' people and they take false comfort that they are saved because they aren't doing the 'look what I've done' part of Matthew 7 while turning a blind eye to the fact that they live in lawlessness.
John explains to us it is the person who practices lawlessness/sin that doesn't know Christ. This is just as true as it is true that you aren't saved if you are trying to earn your salvation. But this part about lawlessness (sin) is ignored by some (many?) 'once saved always saved' people and they take false comfort that they are saved because they aren't doing the 'look what I've done' part of Matthew 7 while turning a blind eye to the fact that they live in lawlessness.
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Thank you for your encouraging words brother, but I wouldn't phrase it that it was ME who overcame. I don't want or take ANY credit for what Jesus has done.
I like what you say about rendering to God.Caesars image is that of the world. We are made in God's image, and of course that goes way beyond appearance. We need to render to Him a reflection of His image. That again is what the Holy Spirit is transforming us to.
As for Donald Trump, I never will put my faith in a person that is not Jesus. Having said that, and recognizing his boorish and fleshly behavior, from a secular view, and in view of his accomplishments in a year and a half, he is the greatest President of my lifetime. I am literal shocked at just how incredible his policies and actions have been.
From Supreme court Justices, to the economy, to reduced regulations, to foreign policy, to lower taxes, to leaving the Paris accords, to defunding foreign aid to abortion providers, to friend of the court briefs defending Christians refusing to be forced to engage with homosexuals and their sin, to opening up oil and shale reserves, to truly doing what HE thinks is in America's best interest, TO DEFINITIVELY EXPOSING THE MAJOR MEDIA AS A FRAUDULENT, BIASED, ARM OF THE SOCIALISTS, and on and on...
And of course God is in control. In both good and bad leaders arising to be used for His purposes.
I like what you say about rendering to God.Caesars image is that of the world. We are made in God's image, and of course that goes way beyond appearance. We need to render to Him a reflection of His image. That again is what the Holy Spirit is transforming us to.
As for Donald Trump, I never will put my faith in a person that is not Jesus. Having said that, and recognizing his boorish and fleshly behavior, from a secular view, and in view of his accomplishments in a year and a half, he is the greatest President of my lifetime. I am literal shocked at just how incredible his policies and actions have been.
From Supreme court Justices, to the economy, to reduced regulations, to foreign policy, to lower taxes, to leaving the Paris accords, to defunding foreign aid to abortion providers, to friend of the court briefs defending Christians refusing to be forced to engage with homosexuals and their sin, to opening up oil and shale reserves, to truly doing what HE thinks is in America's best interest, TO DEFINITIVELY EXPOSING THE MAJOR MEDIA AS A FRAUDULENT, BIASED, ARM OF THE SOCIALISTS, and on and on...
And of course God is in control. In both good and bad leaders arising to be used for His purposes.
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I fail to see the significance of this post. I fully agree with you. They practiced lawlessness. No one can "practice" the Law. You have to NEVER break a single Law. If you do you have broken ALL the Law. Of course we know that we ALL practiced lawlessness. That's why we have to be hidden in the One who FULFILLED the law perfectly. These guys trusted in THEIR works to be justified, they didn't trust in HIS WORKS to be justified.
See the danger of this works to attain or maintain Salvation Ralph?
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U
Gill was a Calvanist Baptist, but he believed and wrote that eternal salvation could never be lost, and that is the foundational belief of OSAS is it not?
You may get to it in two different ways......but, once there, you both hold the same beliefs...........so, maybe you shouldn't REJECT all of his teachings?
Now, concerning the OP...........and the purpose of this Thread, do you have any thoughts concerning the Scriptures posted?
You may get to it in two different ways......but, once there, you both hold the same beliefs...........so, maybe you shouldn't REJECT all of his teachings?
Now, concerning the OP...........and the purpose of this Thread, do you have any thoughts concerning the Scriptures posted?
What is very evident to me is that Paul is very concerned for the Colossians, losing hope, (v. 1:5)
Paul is focusing on a "worthy walk" not for justification as you would like to infer since he has already made it clear in verse 1:5 that they are assured of heaven, they are saved not being saved!!!
The word translated "laid up" denotes certainty and was used in the ancient world for something that was put away, stored up, or reserved.
In context, Paul writes words of encouragement and hope to these believers, secure in God's justification and reconciliation by the grace of God in Christ, but to make sure that their presentation in heaven will be holy and unblameable.
The conditional element in verse 23 (if) does not refer back to the reconciliation mentioned in verse 22, but to the presentation mentioned in verse 22.
Paul is encouraging them so that they have good evaluation before the judgement seat of Christ. verse 1:28, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.
Paul is so emphatically teaching them to be who they are in Christ and not give head to false teachers, they are saved in Christ, they are secure because Christ is God!! (2:9)
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Gill was a Calvanist Baptist, but he believed and wrote that eternal salvation could never be lost, and that is the foundational belief of OSAS is it not?
You may get to it in two different ways......but, once there, you both hold the same beliefs...........so, maybe you shouldn't REJECT all of his teachings?
Now, concerning the OP...........and the purpose of this Thread, do you have any thoughts concerning the Scriptures posted?
You may get to it in two different ways......but, once there, you both hold the same beliefs...........so, maybe you shouldn't REJECT all of his teachings?
Now, concerning the OP...........and the purpose of this Thread, do you have any thoughts concerning the Scriptures posted?
Matthew 5:46
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Still trying to figure out how people negate works, or efforts, that were even necessary, to even make possible, a persuasion, let alone one's acceptance of Christ.The possibility is, it was so slight, as to go unnoticed?
In Colossians 1:23, we read - ..if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. The word "if" here is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."
That is, continuance would show that the person's faith was firmly rooted and established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Greek particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians who believe in vain/without cause or without effect, to no purpose (1 Corinthians 15:2).
1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe/belief was never firmly rooted and established).
It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians along with genuine Christians, without being able to know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance here that they will be eternally saved when in fact they may not? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow, vain faith was not rooted and established in the gospel to begin with.
That is, continuance would show that the person's faith was firmly rooted and established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Greek particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians who believe in vain/without cause or without effect, to no purpose (1 Corinthians 15:2).
1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe/belief was never firmly rooted and established).
It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians along with genuine Christians, without being able to know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance here that they will be eternally saved when in fact they may not? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow, vain faith was not rooted and established in the gospel to begin with.
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R
No, John said the person who is still practicing sin in his old life is not born again:
"7Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. "-1 John 3:7-9
So we can see that your Freegrace doctrine is dead wrong when it teaches that saved and unsaved people sin alike with no difference.
Jesus said the Matthew 7 group were lawless. That means they were practicing sin (1 John 3:4). That means they were not born again. This has nothing to do with them trying to earn their salvation through works of the law (the definition of the works gospel), because they had no works. They were lawless. We see from the Luke version that what they were guilty of is thinking they have favor with Jesus by association:
26“Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.’ "-Luke 13:26-27
And that is what we see in the church today. Lot's of people involved in the doings of the church--programs, ministries, etc--but who then go home and live immoral, lawless lives, taking false comfort that their ministry doings and association with the church somehow put them in God's graces and prepare them for the day of his return. That is the message of the passage and you are missing it altogether.
These people were not doing works to earn salvation. As I've pointed out, Jesus said they are lawless. They would be doing works if they were trying to earn salvation by works. They thought their association with Christ is going to save them on the day of Christ's return.
The danger being warned about here is not the works gospel, but rather the danger of people in the church thinking they're okay with Christ through your association with him in all kinds of church activities and ministries, blind to the fact they're living sinful, lawless lives of unbelievers. And so they will not be saved when Jesus comes back. That is the message of the passage. And it is especially damning to people who subscribe to Freegrace theology which says their sinning doesn't matter because all people, saved and unsaved, sin equally. As I've shown, the Bible does not say that at all. In fact, it says the exact opposite.
"7Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. "-1 John 3:7-9
So we can see that your Freegrace doctrine is dead wrong when it teaches that saved and unsaved people sin alike with no difference.
Jesus said the Matthew 7 group were lawless. That means they were practicing sin (1 John 3:4). That means they were not born again. This has nothing to do with them trying to earn their salvation through works of the law (the definition of the works gospel), because they had no works. They were lawless. We see from the Luke version that what they were guilty of is thinking they have favor with Jesus by association:
26“Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.’ "-Luke 13:26-27
And that is what we see in the church today. Lot's of people involved in the doings of the church--programs, ministries, etc--but who then go home and live immoral, lawless lives, taking false comfort that their ministry doings and association with the church somehow put them in God's graces and prepare them for the day of his return. That is the message of the passage and you are missing it altogether.
These people were not doing works to earn salvation. As I've pointed out, Jesus said they are lawless. They would be doing works if they were trying to earn salvation by works. They thought their association with Christ is going to save them on the day of Christ's return.
The danger being warned about here is not the works gospel, but rather the danger of people in the church thinking they're okay with Christ through your association with him in all kinds of church activities and ministries, blind to the fact they're living sinful, lawless lives of unbelievers. And so they will not be saved when Jesus comes back. That is the message of the passage. And it is especially damning to people who subscribe to Freegrace theology which says their sinning doesn't matter because all people, saved and unsaved, sin equally. As I've shown, the Bible does not say that at all. In fact, it says the exact opposite.
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Paul rightly says "Their condemnation is just"!!
This applies to YOU Ralph. You have for several yrs now accused many brethren of preaching that sin is ok because you are saved. YOUR condemnation is just!
You have been given enough explanation and Scripture that we do NOT believe sinning is ok!
YOUR condemnation is just!
Grace IS a free gift. Because YOU want to make it a work is on your head.
YOUR condemnation is just!
Many have been extremely patient with you, and your accusations against the brethren, your belief that Jesus is not strong enough to keep that which is His. I pray that the Lord will soften your heart and reveal to you the error you are stuck in. Meditate, and pray on this passage Ralph. It is some other entity that constantly accuses the brethren. Don't align yourself with him.
KJ21
And why not say rather (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), “Let us do evil, that good may come”? Their damnation is just!
ASV
and why not (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), Let us do evil, that good may come? whose condemnation is just.
AMP
And why not say, (as some slanderously report and claim that we teach) “Let us do evil so that good may come of it”? Their condemnation [by God] is just.
AMPC
And why should we not do evil that good may come?—as some slanderously charge us with teaching. Such [false teaching] is justly condemned by them.
BRG
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
CSB
And why not say, just as some people slanderously claim we say, “Let us do what is evil so that good may come”? Their condemnation is deserved!
CEB
Why not say, “Let’s do evil things so that good things will come out of it”? (Some people who slander us accuse us of saying that, but these people deserve criticism.)
CJB
Indeed! Why not say (as some people slander us by claiming we do say), “Let us do evil, so that good may come of it”? Against them the judgment is a just one!
CEV
You might as well say, “Let’s do something evil, so that something good will come of it!” Some people even claim that we are saying this. But God is fair and will judge them as well.
DARBY
and not, according as we are injuriously charged, and according as some affirm that we say, Let us practise evil things, that good ones may come? whose judgment is just.
DLNT
Indeed, why not say “Let us do evil things that good things may come”, as we are blasphemed, and as some affirm us to say— whose condemnation is just!
DRA
And not rather (as we are slandered, and as some affirm that we say) let us do evil, that there may come good? whose damnation is just.
ERV
It would be the same to say, “We should do evil so that good will come.” Many people criticize us, saying that’s what we teach. They are wrong, and they should be condemned for saying that.
EHV
And why not say (as some slanderously claim we say), “Let us do evil so that good may result.” Their condemnation is deserved.
ESV
And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.
ESVUK
And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.
EXB
It would be the same to say, “We should do evil so that good will come.” Some people ·find fault with [slander] us and say we teach this, but ·they are wrong and deserve the punishment they will receive [L their condemnation is just].
GNV
And (as we are blamed, and as some affirm, that we say) why do we not evil, that good may come thereof? whose damnation is just.
GW
Or can we say, “Let’s do evil so that good will come from it”? Some slander us and claim that this is what we say. They are condemned, and that’s what they deserve.
KJV
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
NKJV
And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.
This applies to YOU Ralph. You have for several yrs now accused many brethren of preaching that sin is ok because you are saved. YOUR condemnation is just!
You have been given enough explanation and Scripture that we do NOT believe sinning is ok!
YOUR condemnation is just!
Grace IS a free gift. Because YOU want to make it a work is on your head.
YOUR condemnation is just!
Many have been extremely patient with you, and your accusations against the brethren, your belief that Jesus is not strong enough to keep that which is His. I pray that the Lord will soften your heart and reveal to you the error you are stuck in. Meditate, and pray on this passage Ralph. It is some other entity that constantly accuses the brethren. Don't align yourself with him.
KJ21
And why not say rather (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), “Let us do evil, that good may come”? Their damnation is just!
ASV
and why not (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), Let us do evil, that good may come? whose condemnation is just.
AMP
And why not say, (as some slanderously report and claim that we teach) “Let us do evil so that good may come of it”? Their condemnation [by God] is just.
AMPC
And why should we not do evil that good may come?—as some slanderously charge us with teaching. Such [false teaching] is justly condemned by them.
BRG
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
CSB
And why not say, just as some people slanderously claim we say, “Let us do what is evil so that good may come”? Their condemnation is deserved!
CEB
Why not say, “Let’s do evil things so that good things will come out of it”? (Some people who slander us accuse us of saying that, but these people deserve criticism.)
CJB
Indeed! Why not say (as some people slander us by claiming we do say), “Let us do evil, so that good may come of it”? Against them the judgment is a just one!
CEV
You might as well say, “Let’s do something evil, so that something good will come of it!” Some people even claim that we are saying this. But God is fair and will judge them as well.
DARBY
and not, according as we are injuriously charged, and according as some affirm that we say, Let us practise evil things, that good ones may come? whose judgment is just.
DLNT
Indeed, why not say “Let us do evil things that good things may come”, as we are blasphemed, and as some affirm us to say— whose condemnation is just!
DRA
And not rather (as we are slandered, and as some affirm that we say) let us do evil, that there may come good? whose damnation is just.
ERV
It would be the same to say, “We should do evil so that good will come.” Many people criticize us, saying that’s what we teach. They are wrong, and they should be condemned for saying that.
EHV
And why not say (as some slanderously claim we say), “Let us do evil so that good may result.” Their condemnation is deserved.
ESV
And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.
ESVUK
And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.
EXB
It would be the same to say, “We should do evil so that good will come.” Some people ·find fault with [slander] us and say we teach this, but ·they are wrong and deserve the punishment they will receive [L their condemnation is just].
GNV
And (as we are blamed, and as some affirm, that we say) why do we not evil, that good may come thereof? whose damnation is just.
GW
Or can we say, “Let’s do evil so that good will come from it”? Some slander us and claim that this is what we say. They are condemned, and that’s what they deserve.
KJV
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
NKJV
And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.
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R
Wrong!
You are teaching that grace makes it so 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Galatians 5:19-21 and 1 John 3:6-10, do not apply to you. If that's not making grace a license to sin, what is, Penn????
Paul really wasn't teaching 'let us do evil that good may come'. YOU ARE! The accusation fits exactly for you and everyone else who misleads people into this new Freegrace OSAS gospel destroying the church.
Now go back and address my post. And you never answered why 1 John 2:19 doesn't apply to you and how you left the Lord, yet, you were saved and stayed saved before and after you left. You have a great testimony, but you have to go on record that 1 John 2:19 doesn't mean what OSAS says it means or admit you did not remain saved when you left, or that you were never really saved to begin with.
You are teaching that grace makes it so 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Galatians 5:19-21 and 1 John 3:6-10, do not apply to you. If that's not making grace a license to sin, what is, Penn????
Paul really wasn't teaching 'let us do evil that good may come'. YOU ARE! The accusation fits exactly for you and everyone else who misleads people into this new Freegrace OSAS gospel destroying the church.
Now go back and address my post. And you never answered why 1 John 2:19 doesn't apply to you and how you left the Lord, yet, you were saved and stayed saved before and after you left. You have a great testimony, but you have to go on record that 1 John 2:19 doesn't mean what OSAS says it means or admit you did not remain saved when you left, or that you were never really saved to begin with.
^ "that [to the end that] the righteousness [requirement] OF the law might be fulfilled [passive] IN us [note: not BY us]..." Rom8:4
https://biblehub.com/text/romans/8-4.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/romans/8-4.htm
P
I do have a problem with this osas thing. Perhaps it's my lack of understanding of scripture that blinds me.
The letters to the 7churches in which case Jesus warns about being Luke warm also the warning of leaving your first love.
Also in the gospels where the parable of the wicked servant caught my eye it seems he got more than yelled at.
Now Jesus did call him a servant and he did receive from God.
Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments. James said be ye doers and not just hearers, also faith without works is dead.
All of this imo is pointing to accountiblity. Now I'm not saying you have to work for salvation because you can't that work is done and now is in the form of a gift. From God. Only God can grant that gift. But wouldn't it be wise to read the directions that came with that gift and follow it's instructions so your not deceived?
To be removed from a lampstand.
To be cast in outter darkness.
To be vomited out of the mouth of God
Is not chastisement it is judgement.
Please if I am wrong then correct me in kindness....
Potter
The letters to the 7churches in which case Jesus warns about being Luke warm also the warning of leaving your first love.
Also in the gospels where the parable of the wicked servant caught my eye it seems he got more than yelled at.
Now Jesus did call him a servant and he did receive from God.
Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments. James said be ye doers and not just hearers, also faith without works is dead.
All of this imo is pointing to accountiblity. Now I'm not saying you have to work for salvation because you can't that work is done and now is in the form of a gift. From God. Only God can grant that gift. But wouldn't it be wise to read the directions that came with that gift and follow it's instructions so your not deceived?
To be removed from a lampstand.
To be cast in outter darkness.
To be vomited out of the mouth of God
Is not chastisement it is judgement.
Please if I am wrong then correct me in kindness....
Potter