Can anyone help me understand these verses?

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U

UnderGrace

Guest
#261
#261
Ralph- said:
@UnderGrace[/USER]

"6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end."-Hebrews 3:6

Don't you realize that you are literally saying this verse is not true? You're saying I DON'T have to hold fast my confidence in the hope of the Gospel to be the house of Christ.
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Even if I exegeted this for you, you would deny it because you have the wrong lens for scripture in more ways than one.

Like I said Ralphie, you keep "holding fast" "keep believing to maintain a justified status" I am finally resolved to the place where if you prefer to deny yourself the riches of God's grace then so be it.

One thing CC has demonstrated over and over again those that deny sound doctrine are following some personal agenda or need.

In your case you have at least been transparent about it.
 
F

FirstLovedByHim

Active member
#262
Aug 8, 2018
222
70
28
#262
Ralph- said:
Sure. It means I have no religious affiliation other than being on the Protestant side of the great divide between Catholicism and Protestantism.

I don't think there is a denomination whose official doctrine addresses all the issues and addresses them 100% accurately. So my doctrinal construct is composed of the doctrines that line up with the Bible, not just the ones crammed into a single denomination's statement of faith.
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Okay so your Protestant. That is the side you are for in the great divide. I say this because you do know what you first stated was a contradiction?

I am a New arrival, nondenominational therefore noncommittal, simply playing the field. Like something from all denominations, that which is supported by scripture alone of course. And even this can not be clearly understood without the Holy Spirit, for it is Holy Spirit imbued . 2Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-Breathed


…15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.… 2 Peter 1:20-21


20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

I can find something worth cherishing from all denominations.

I take the goods and cast the rest aside. I am here to chat, and hear views and opinions. Maybe I will find some gold, silver and precious gems the only thing worth putting in my treasure chest. I am a gold digger admittedly . Only in it for the finest,


I hate cheap stuff! No wood , hay or straw for me.

1Corinthians3:11-14

11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward.


Glory to God Alone for all who are in Him and are esteemed by men, is the esteeming of God who makes all the saints who they are. For it is His gifts in them that are worthy of praise on earth and in heaven, where for sure the saints reign in Christ.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#263
#263
Ralph- said:
Through my faith I'm holding on to he who saves me. Why do you ignore the scriptures that plainly say you have to do that to be saved?
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Seriously Ralphie when I read your posts about "keep believing" it gives me this mental image of Dorothy willing herself back to Kansas by the power of her own belief.

You see your doctrine is more aligned with the world than the scriptures. :D I wonder if that is where it came from? hehehe

 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#264
#264
UnderGrace said:
You see your doctrine is more aligned with the world than the scriptures. :D I wonder if that is where it came from?
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Yes, heaven forbid that I would get a doctrine about believing from the scriptures.

" 18fight the good fight, 19keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith."-1 Timothy 1:18-20

"13Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith"-1 Corinthians 16:13

And I'm pretty sure the Bible predates Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz. Pretty sure about that.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#265
#265
UnderGrace said:
Even if I exegeted this for you, you would deny it because you have the wrong lens for scripture in more ways than one.
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What you're saying is, you have to explain this to me so that the scriptures won't actually mean what they say. I need the special lens of your 'once saved always saved' doctrine to see that the Bible doesn't really mean what it says.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#266
#266
UnderGrace said:
Not worth answering
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I agree. It's hardly worth addressing. Who would have thought that in just these last few years the church would decide you don't have to keep believing in order to be God's building, even though the scriptures plainly say you are that building IF you keep believing.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#267
#267
UnderGrace said:
Like I said Ralphie, you keep "holding fast" "keep believing to maintain a justified status" I am finally resolved to the place where if you prefer to deny yourself the riches of God's grace then so be it.
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Seriously? Believing denies me the riches of God's grace? Stop and listen to the lunacy of what you're saying some time. You are in the grip of a lying spirit. I'm convinced that Freegrace doctrine is the false doctrine that destroys the visible church just before the return of Christ. And you are in the grip of that false doctrine.

The mark is coming, and you are not prepared to resist it. Because you think it does not matter if you take it or not. You think grace makes it so you do not have to keep believing to be saved. You'll crumble like a cheap cookie when the persecution breaks out. And you'll be lost.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#268
#268
Ralph- said:
I agree. It's hardly worth addressing. Who would have thought that in just these last few years the church would decide you don't have to keep believing in order to be God's building, even though the scriptures plainly say you are that building IF you keep believing.
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Oh, by the way, UG, even Calvin the leader of the Reformed movement you defend so fiercely said only those who keep believing and don't fall away are true Christians.

It's been interesting to see how so many 'once saved always saved' Christians who once thought 1 John 2:19 taught that if you fall away you were never really saved to begin with now believe that you were not only saved before you fell away but remain saved while you are fallen away. These are interesting times in the church we live in these days. We are witnessing the end of the visible church in accordance with prophecy. The end is near.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#269
#269
Ralph- said:
Oh, by the way, UG, even Calvin the leader of the Reformed movement you defend so fiercely said only those who keep believing and don't fall away are true Christians.

It's been interesting to see how so many 'once saved always saved' Christians who once thought 1 John 2:19 taught that if you fall away you were never really saved to begin with now believe that you were not only saved before you fell away but remain saved while you are fallen away. These are interesting times in the church we live in these days. We are witnessing the end of the visible church in accordance with prophecy. The end is near.
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So you have read Calvin's Institutes and his Commentaries and are now an expert on his body of work, well then you please provide supporting quotes?
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#270
#270
UnderGrace said:
So you have read Calvin's Institutes and his Commentaries and are now an expert on his body of work, well then you please provide supporting quotes?
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"Where God's call is effectual, there will be sure perseverance"

Did Calvin say this?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#272
#272
Ralph- said:
Seriously? Believing denies me the riches of God's grace? Stop and listen to the lunacy of what you're saying some time. You are in the grip of a lying spirit. I'm convinced that Freegrace doctrine is the false doctrine that destroys the visible church just before the return of Christ. And you are in the grip of that false doctrine.

The mark is coming, and you are not prepared to resist it. Because you think it does not matter if you take it or not. You think grace makes it so you do not have to keep believing to be saved. You'll crumble like a cheap cookie when the persecution breaks out. And you'll be lost.
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I said move from milk to meat, you can only do so from a position of belief that you are irrevocably saved........ otherwise you are always in the world of "how do I stay saved" and "what will cause me to loose my salvation" which quite evident from the way you read scripture btw!!!

This is really priceless Ralphie, your "kept belief" is stronger than the "grace of God" and therefore you will survive persecution.

Seriously!!!

Again you show your motive for your false doctrine of "loseable salvation" its all about the visible church.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#273
#273
Ralph- said:
Oh, by the way, UG, even Calvin the leader of the Reformed movement you defend so fiercely said only those who keep believing and don't fall away are true Christians.

It's been interesting to see how so many 'once saved always saved' Christians who once thought 1 John 2:19 taught that if you fall away you were never really saved to begin with now believe that you were not only saved before you fell away but remain saved while you are fallen away. These are interesting times in the church we live in these days. We are witnessing the end of the visible church in accordance with prophecy. The end is near.
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There you go again making false assumptions, boy you really like your boxes, Reformed, Calvinism, freegracers, hypergracers, OSAS Christians etc.,

I notice you never put Arminism in there??? Now why is that:unsure:
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#274
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#274
UnderGrace said:
Seriously Ralphie when I read your posts about "keep believing" it gives me this mental image of Dorothy willing herself back to Kansas by the power of her own belief.

You see your doctrine is more aligned with the world than the scriptures. :D I wonder if that is where it came from? hehehe

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AMEN.........His dogma totally devalues Christ, his work, his power and the absolute truth that Christ will remain faithful to his promises, irrevocable gift of life, imputed righteousness and applied blood unto the believer regardless of the level of faith we have or even if we lose faith......Every one of the disciples lost faith, scattered and sat in a lonely room when Christ was crucified, Peter even denied the Lord three times and denied KNOWING the Lord, yet Christ remained FAITHFUL to his word and they never LOST salvation and or had to do anything to MAINTAIN IT.....and we know that THOMAS even DOUBTED and expressed that DOUBT OUT LOUD and NOT ONCE did the Lord say he lost it and had to regain it.......the false gospel of one maintaining salvation makes me want to puke......it is a total degradation of God, His word, His power, His Promises, His FAITH and is a flat slap in the face of the Son of God......!
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#275
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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#275
Both 1 Timothy 1:19b and 1 Corinthians 16:13 speak of "THE faith" ('that body of truth' as found in the NT [following His death...]).
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#277
#277
dcontroversal said:
AMEN.........His dogma totally devalues Christ, his work, his power and the absolute truth that Christ will remain faithful to his promises, irrevocable gift of life, imputed righteousness and applied blood unto the believer regardless of the level of faith we have or even if we lose faith......Every one of the disciples lost faith, scattered and sat in a lonely room when Christ was crucified, Peter even denied the Lord three times and denied KNOWING the Lord, yet Christ remained FAITHFUL to his word and they never LOST salvation and or had to do anything to MAINTAIN IT.....and we know that THOMAS even DOUBTED and expressed that DOUBT OUT LOUD and NOT ONCE did the Lord say he lost it and had to regain it.......the false gospel of one maintaining salvation makes me want to puke......it is a total degradation of God, His word, His power, His Promises, His FAITH and is a flat slap in the face of the Son of God......!
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Calvinism says that 1 John 2:19 means if you fall away you were never really saved to begin with. That's the 'P' in 'TULIP'.

Calvinism is where 'once saved always saved' comes from in the modern church. It's origins are in Gnosticism, which, ironically, is what John is warning the church about in 1 John (John being the one most cited as teaching 'once saved always saved'). And Augustine tried to teach it but the church resisted it then, too. Calvin is the one who was finally successful in bringing 'once saved always saved' into the church. And now we can see how it has changed from what he taught into what you and others believe about it--that even if you fall away you not only were saved before falling away but that you remain saved while you are in unbelief.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#278
#278
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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#279
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#279
Ralph- said:
What is the Greek word for 'the' ? I don't see 'the' in the original Greek in those verses.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1ti/1/1/t_conc_1120019

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1co/16/1/t_conc_1078013


I don't see how that would change anything anyway.
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Well, check it out under Bible Hub, and then also consider verses which DO say their faith (which is phrased like "the faith OF THEM" ['of them' is a different Greek word]... though we say it like "their faith". In this verse, it is the definite article "the".)


Perhaps it will also help you to look at another word, along with this:

where 1Tim1:19b uses the word that means "to thrust away, reject, refuse, push away, repudiate, to drive away from oneself, having cast away" (see who does this; are either of these talking about people who once were "saved" [eternal life] and then cast off that salvation [eternal life]? or were they in possession of truths which they thrust away/rejected/drove away from oneself [disregarded as not for them]?) -

https://biblehub.com/text/acts/7-39.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/acts/13-46.htm


[see the wider contexts]
 
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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#280
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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#280
wider context for Acts 7:39 [blb] -

33 And the Lord said to him, ‘Take off the sandal of your feet, for the place on which you stand is holy ground. 34 Having seen, I saw the oppression of My people in Egypt, and I have heard their groans, and I have come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send you to Egypt.’
35 This Moses whom they rejected, having said, ‘Who appointed you ruler and judge?’—him whom God sent and as ruler and redeemer by the hand of the angel having appeared to him in the bush— 36 this one led them out, having done wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red Sea, and in the wilderness forty years.
37 This is the Moses having said to the sons of Israel, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me out from your brothers.’ 38 This is the one having been in the congregation in the wilderness with the angel speaking to him in Mount Sinai, and who was with our fathers. He received living oracles to give to us, 39 to whom our fathers were not willing to be obedient, but thrust away, and turned back in their hearts to Egypt, 40 having said to Aaron, ‘Make us gods who will go before us. As for this Moses who brought us out from the land of Egypt, we do not know what has happened to him.’
41 And in those days they made a calf and offered a sacrifice to the idol and were rejoicing in the works of their hands. 42 But God turned away and delivered them to worship the host of heaven, as it has been written in the book of the prophets:
 
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