OSAS= House Built on Sand

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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Slayer said:
Some wealthy business man can cheerfully give a dime, is that acceptable. Of' course the percentage of giving is important, if everyone gave a dime the Church would cease to exist.
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I am not under the law, sorry your church is legalistic.....show me a percentage required in the N.T. <---You cannot! The following is biblical, your statement is not....

dcontroversal said:
God loves a cheerful giver and let every man set aside in his heart what he desires to give.....it is not about percentages, but rather about motivation.......
 
U

UnderGrace

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#2,222
#2,222
justpassinthrough said:
Lucifer was a son of God who became lost.

He is now called the enemy of God.


Judas, likewise was appointed and destined to reign and rule with Christ and the other apostles.

He also became lost.


Please tell me you understand the simple truth that for a son to become lost, he first must belong to the Lord.


What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


All 100 sheep belong to the shepherd.

They are his sheep.


  • What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them


JPT
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Satan never was, nor will ever be a "bearer of light"
There is only Satan the reference the light bearer in the old testament was to
Nebuchadnezzar.

If Judas was lost he was always lost.
 
Slayer

Slayer

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Jul 23, 2018
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#2,223
justpassinthrough said:
Not true.

They would meet in homes, in caves, wherever.


The underground church in China is probably the most fruitful right now.


There are probably more Christian’s outside the local Church in America than there are who attend to Church Services.



JPT
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If a church meets in a house it's still a Church and every Church needs money to do Gods work. A Church doesn't exist for folks to come and socialize, it's purpose it to do Gods work and that takes lots of money. You can't feed the poor by gathering in a house and singing a few hymns and listen to a sermon, you can't support ministries, you can't invite people off the street to join you because you have no room.

Gods Church will dominate the whole world and rule, you can't make excuses for failing to do the work God commanded us to do. People make all kinds of excuses to cover their greed, but God sees straight through the lies and He will exact His revenge on the unprofitable servants.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#2,224
#2,224
Slayer said:
If a church meets in a house it's still a Church and every Church needs money to do Gods work. A Church doesn't exist for folks to come and socialize, it's purpose it to do Gods work and that takes lots of money. You can't feed the poor by gathering in a house and singing a few hymns and listen to a sermon, you can't support ministries, you can't invite people off the street to join you because you have no room.

Gods Church will dominate the whole world and rule, you can't make excuses for failing to do the work God commanded us to do. People make all kinds of excuses to cover their greed, but God sees straight through the lies and He will exact His revenge on the unprofitable servants.
Click to expand...
Do you always just make it up as you go along?

There is absolutely no need for a church building, the persecuted Christians have always had to meet in homes and secret places and they actually flourished.
 
Slayer

Slayer

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Jul 23, 2018
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#2,225
dcontroversal said:
I am not under the law, sorry your church is legalistic.....show me a percentage required in the N.T. <---You cannot! The following is biblical, your statement is not....

dcontroversal said:
God loves a cheerful giver and let every man set aside in his heart what he desires to give.....it is not about percentages, but rather about motivation.......
Click to expand...
I've heard a few good sermons about giving, your right it's not about percentages but the Bible does teach Gods people to give sacrificially. We saw in the NT how that man and his wife were killed when they held back a portion from the sale of their house. I know that was for lying but it shows how much people were giving, they were selling everything to help the poor and build Gods Church.

There are many other scriptures which teach us about giving to the Lord, they all say that giving must be generous and sacrificial. Many will be sent to the lake of fire for not giving enough, Jesus will tell them "I was hungry and you did not feed me"

By giving sacrificially we are building Gods Kingdom and what could be more important than that.
 
Slayer

Slayer

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Jul 23, 2018
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#2,226
UnderGrace said:
Do you always just make it up as you go along?

There is absolutely no need for a church building, the persecuted Christians have always had to meet in homes and secret places and they actually flourished.
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about those Countries where Christianity is outlawed, we all know they have to meet in secret. I'm talking about the rest of the free world, where we don't have any excuse.

You can't avoid the facts by using extreme cases, you must admit that everyone who calls himself a Christian must give as much money as they can to the Church. There's no excuse for avoiding our obligation, God commanded us to give sacrificially.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#2,227
#2,227
Slayer said:
I'm not talking about those Countries where Christianity is outlawed, we all know they have to meet in secret. I'm talking about the rest of the free world, where we don't have any excuse.

You can't avoid the facts by using extreme cases, you must admit that everyone who calls himself a Christian must give as much money as they can to the Church. There's no excuse for avoiding our obligation, God commanded us to give sacrificially.
Click to expand...
A born again believer who does not give sacrificially is not a reprobate and is not going to hell.
 
G

GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES

Active member
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Aug 16, 2018
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#2,228
Slayer said:
If the Church doesn't have anywhere to meet, then it ceases to exist. You would end up with individual believers, who can't do anything worthwhile for the extension of Gods Kingdom. God preordained to build His Church, which will eventually dominate and rule the whole world. It takes a lot of money to do this, that's why God commanded us to give sacrificially.

The cost of running a small Church these days is at least $120,000 a year, so the tithes and offerings need to much more than this for the Church to be able to support missions and the poor. I detect a lot of greedy Christians here, I would urge all of you to give sacrificially. Jesus said each of us will be rewarded according to our works, if we indulge in luxuries while our brethren starve in Africa we can't expect to receive a good reward in the Kingdom of God.
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I think I'll elect to leave Africa politics out of this.
Question: Why do you feel inclined to take personal jabs at people who hold different ideas than you do? And understand the scriptures differently?

The church of Christ is the body of faithful that therein make the body of Christ alive in what can be pictured as individual cells, due to the individual in faith, working as a unique unit with the leading and guidance of the indwelling holy spirit.
A church that roams the country wherein two or more are gathered in Jesus name can think globally and bless locally.

$120.000.00 per year, $10, 000 per month, to operate a mega structure can buy foreclosed tow homes in an area and open a prison ministry shelter & after-prison training and GED education center.

Gathering in groups? Sure. Each "cell" in the body has a home. We can share together by opening our doors to weekly meetings with one another. Each week someone gets to pay it forward.
And the monies raised within that church can help everyone that needs help. While we the body help ourselves with our job that keeps the roof over our heads. The lights on. And the food in our kitchen first and the body-church financed and supported food pantry second.

In the time of Jesus shepherds did not herd their flock into a large structure. Rather the shepherd led that flock about the countryside so that the sheep could be nourished from many sources. And in the course of that travel the sheep would bear fruit to the locals and from themselves.

We can learn quite a bit from sheep parables,
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#2,229
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#2,229
Slayer said:
I've heard a few good sermons about giving, your right it's not about percentages but the Bible does teach Gods people to give sacrificially. We saw in the NT how that man and his wife were killed when they held back a portion from the sale of their house. I know that was for lying but it shows how much people were giving, they were selling everything to help the poor and build Gods Church.

There are many other scriptures which teach us about giving to the Lord, they all say that giving must be generous and sacrificial. Many will be sent to the lake of fire for not giving enough, Jesus will tell them "I was hungry and you did not feed me"

By giving sacrificially we are building Gods Kingdom and what could be more important than that.
Click to expand...
No one will be sent to the lake of fire for not giving enough....Personally I would avoid whoever taught you that crap....people are sent to the lake of fire because they died lost having not trusted into the saving faith of Christ
 
Slayer

Slayer

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Jul 23, 2018
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#2,230
UnderGrace said:
A born again believer who does not give sacrificially is not a reprobate and is not going to hell.
Click to expand...
That's not what the Bible teaches. You will never get away with that false view, I urge you to believe the Bible.

There is 100 verses which show that sacrificial giving is a must for the saved person. I'm not taking about those who claim to be saved!

Look at all of these and them come back and refute every single one, thank you

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Sacrificial-Giving

https://www.openbible.info/topics/sacrificial_giving

It's time you face the truth!!!
 
G

GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES

Active member
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Aug 16, 2018
137
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#2,231
"tow homes", my above post. Too late to edit. So please read, "row homes", where it should apply.
I'm now going to turn down the nozzle in-flow on that bottle of Helium this airhead apparently didn't realize she was inhaling as she tried to type. o_O
 
G

GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES

Active member
#2,232
Aug 16, 2018
137
87
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#2,232
Slayer said:
I'm not talking about those Countries where Christianity is outlawed, we all know they have to meet in secret. I'm talking about the rest of the free world, where we don't have any excuse.

You can't avoid the facts by using extreme cases, you must admit that everyone who calls himself a Christian must give as much money as they can to the Church. There's no excuse for avoiding our obligation, God commanded us to give sacrificially.
Click to expand...
Please, you will have to post a scripture , as requested once already, that exactly teaches what you hope to here.
That if the believer does not give a lot of money to their church God has said he will send them to the lake of fire.
Not a scripture you interpret to say that. A scripture that does state that precisely.
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#2,233
Oct 31, 2015
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#2,233
Slayer said:
The last part of that scriptures says that the unprofitable servant was cast into the outer darkness where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. That sounds like hell to me and I know that no true believer will end up in hell.
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Brother please stop making up special words that are not mentioned in His teaching, nor found in the Bible.

The phrase “true believer” is not found in the text not in the Bible.


Please just stick to the words Jesus uses.



Jesus starts out in this series of teachings with the parable of the faithful and unfaithful servants.


Matthew 25:45-51


Same exact thing. His servants being given responsibility to do what God has called them to do.

Luke says it this way -

And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. Luke 12:42-46


JPT
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#2,234
Oct 31, 2015
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#2,234
Slayer said:
If a church meets in a house it's still a Church and every Church needs money to do Gods work. A Church doesn't exist for folks to come and socialize, it's purpose it to do Gods work and that takes lots of money. You can't feed the poor by gathering in a house and singing a few hymns and listen to a sermon, you can't support ministries, you can't invite people off the street to join you because you have no room.
Click to expand...

Brother, I hate to shock you, but the pattern of “Church” we have today is no where found in the Bible.


JPT
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#2,235
#2,235
Slayer said:
That's not what the Bible teaches. You will never get away with that false view, I urge you to believe the Bible.

There is 100 verses which show that sacrificial giving is a must for the saved person. I'm not taking about those who claim to be saved!

Look at all of these and them come back and refute every single one, thank you

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Sacrificial-Giving

https://www.openbible.info/topics/sacrificial_giving

It's time you face the truth!!!
Click to expand...
Slayer, Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell all that he had to gain eternal life. I hope you have done that. :)
 
Slayer

Slayer

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Jul 23, 2018
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#2,236
dcontroversal said:
No one will be sent to the lake of fire for not giving enough....Personally I would avoid whoever taught you that crap....people are sent to the lake of fire because they died lost having not trusted into the saving faith of Christ
Click to expand...
There are just too many scriptures speaking about the importance of giving sacrificially in the Bible. My Church teaches that it's vital part of being a Christian and those who don't obey the Bible are not true believers.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Sacrificial-Giving

https://www.openbible.info/topics/sacrificial_giving
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#2,237
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
#2,237
UnderGrace said:
Satan never was, nor will ever be a "bearer of light"
There is only Satan the reference the light bearer in the old testament was to
Nebuchadnezzar.

If Judas was lost he was always lost.
Click to expand...
Lucifer the son of God, became Satan the enemy.


Likewise Judas was appointed and destined to reign with Christ and the other apostles in the age to come.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28


Judas was disciple for three years The was promoted to an Apostle.

Then he became a traitor.


Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot who also became a traitor.
Luke 6:16


How can a person become a traitor if they first do not belong to that kingdom.


Likewise, Saul of Tarsus was an enemy of God’s kingdom then he became an Apostle of the Lord.


He was the one thing then became the other.



JPT
 
Slayer

Slayer

Active member
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Jul 23, 2018
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#2,238
justpassinthrough said:
Brother, I hate to shock you, but the pattern of “Church” we have today is no where found in the Bible.


JPT
Click to expand...
We can't compare the situation they dealt with 2000 years ago to today. Today's Church is far more able to do Gods work than the early Church. We have everything we need to build the Church so that it can feed all the worlds poor and bring the Gospel to them, the only limiting factor is greedy Christians.
 
Slayer

Slayer

Active member
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Jul 23, 2018
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#2,239
GRASSESANDDRAGONFLIES said:
Please, you will have to post a scripture , as requested once already, that exactly teaches what you hope to here.
That if the believer does not give a lot of money to their church God has said he will send them to the lake of fire.
Not a scripture you interpret to say that. A scripture that does state that precisely.
Click to expand...
No problem, I'll give you over 100 thank you

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Sacrificial-Giving

https://www.openbible.info/topics/sacrificial_giving
 
Slayer

Slayer

Active member
#2,240
Jul 23, 2018
724
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#2,240
justpassinthrough said:
Brother please stop making up special words that are not mentioned in His teaching, nor found in the Bible.

The phrase “true believer” is not found in the text not in the Bible.


Please just stick to the words Jesus uses.



Jesus starts out in this series of teachings with the parable of the faithful and unfaithful servants.


Matthew 25:45-51


Same exact thing. His servants being given responsibility to do what God has called them to do.

Luke says it this way -

And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. Luke 12:42-46


JPT
Click to expand...
I use believer and true believer to describe the difference between the elect of God and the hypocrites and reprobate, who claim to believe but they are exposed as unbelievers.
 
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