The prodigal son?

[justpassinthrough]

The parables in Luke 15 were spoken to those who were children of Israel before Day of Pentecost when the outpouring of Holy Spirit was first given.

You are misapplying that which was written for our learning.

I have presented what was taught in the actual scripture, using the words and phrases Jesus used.


Your theory that what Jesus taught His disciples throughout the scriptures are only applicable to that moment in time and do not teach all generations eternal truths that pertain to all His people, basically makes the Bible obsolete.



His sheep who become lost, whether in the first century or today, need to repent as a sinner, in order to be reconciled back to God.



Hear the parable of the lost sheep and the instructions to Christians.



Matthew's version shows us what Jesus taught about dealing with such a person, and in context shows us the principle of forgiveness and unforgiveness.


“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17

• If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?
• And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.

Jesus defines the steps to take, to go after a person who has sinned against you to get them to repent:

1. “Moreover [likewise] if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
2. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
3. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
4. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

JPT

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Do you have scripture to prove this?

Acts 1:

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

...

2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


Also check out what Jesus said concerning the Comforter in John 14, 15, 16. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit which occurred on Day of Pentecost was not available until after the death, resurrection, and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ into heaven. In John 16:7, Jesus told His disciples that if He did not go away, the Comforter would not come:

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Your theory that what Jesus taught His disciples throughout the scriptures are only applicable to that moment in time and do not teach all generations eternal truths that pertain to all His people, basically makes the Bible obsolete.

Nowhere have I stated that the Bible is obsolete. I have stated exactly what Scripture tells us in Romans 15:4 … that whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning that we through patience and comfort of the Scripture might have hope.

Do you deny that Romans 15:4 is just as much a part of Scripture as Luke 15?

 

[Shamah]

Acts 1:

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

...

2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


Also check out what Jesus said concerning the Comforter in John 14, 15, 16. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit which occurred on Day of Pentecost was not available until after the death, resurrection, and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ into heaven. In John 16:7, Jesus told His disciples that if He did not go away, the Comforter would not come:

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

The the Holy Spirit recalls to us what the Messiah taught while on earth:

John 14:23-26, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me. These Words I have spoken to you while still with you. But the Helper, the Set-apart Spirit, whom the Father shall send in My Name, He shall teach you all, and remind you of all that I said to you.”

 

[dcontroversal]

The Apostles Creed states what is required to be a Christian. It is a doctrinal document created by the elders in 312 with the earliest copy dating to 390. It also defines anything opposed to it as heresy. Before you rant Bible only keep in mind Bibles were extremely expensive and rare since they were copied by hand taking months to copy. Short doctrinal statements people could memorize was how Biblical concepts were passed on to the mostly illerate population. You always rant Bible only. Tell the board how before the printing press that was fesable.

I get very tired of your blindness to others different opinions. Part of the Apostles Creed was the concept by the elders creating it was and is agree to disagree outside of it. All of the different gospel preaching denominations today are testimony to this agree to disagree.

In this post you make assertions that there are disagreements about. Suck it up and live with the disagreements.

No, the BIBLE states what is required to be a Christian, not some man made creed written by men in 390.....take your religion someplace else pal.....you can bark up this religious creed tree all day long and it will not change my mind about the fact that the bible sets the standard not men in 390 A.D....!!

 

[Shamah]

No, the BIBLE states what is required to be a Christian, not some man made creed written by men in 390.....take your religion someplace else pal.....you can bark up this religious creed tree all day long and it will not change my mind about the fact that the bible sets the standard not men in 390 A.D....!!

John/Yahanan 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."

 

[justpassinthrough]

Acts 1:

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

...

2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


Also check out what Jesus said concerning the Comforter in John 14, 15, 16. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit which occurred on Day of Pentecost was not available until after the death, resurrection, and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ into heaven. In John 16:7, Jesus told His disciples that if He did not go away, the Comforter would not come:

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

What the point?


Is that s scripture just for Jews?



JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

Nowhere have I stated that the Bible is obsolete. I have stated exactly what Scripture tells us in Romans 15:4 … that whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning that we through patience and comfort of the Scripture might have hope.

Do you deny that Romans 15:4 is just as much a part of Scripture as Luke 15?

What does Romans 15:4 have to do with Jesus teaching that His sheep who wander away and become lost need to repent.

These have become unreconciled to Him, being sinners; unjust.


Do the lost need salvation?



JPT

 

[reneweddaybyday]

What the point?


Is that s scripture just for Jews?

How about you provide Scripture upon which you rely which indicates that when Jesus spoke the parables in Luke 15, those to whom He spoke were "Born again - Children of God".

The 100 sheep belong to the shepherd, as they are His sheep: Born again - Children of God.

At the time Jesus spoke this parable to the pharisees and scribes who murmured at Him because He received publicans and sinners and ate with them, there were no "Born again - Children of God".

Do you have scripture to prove this?

Acts 1:

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

...

2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


Also check out what Jesus said concerning the Comforter in John 14, 15, 16. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit which occurred on Day of Pentecost was not available until after the death, resurrection, and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ into heaven. In John 16:7, Jesus told His disciples that if He did not go away, the Comforter would not come:

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Do the lost need salvation?

In our day and time, those who are not born again need salvation.

Those who are born again have already been sealed with that holy spirit of promise.

Ephesians 1:

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

[justpassinthrough]

How about you provide Scripture upon which you rely which indicates that when Jesus spoke the parables in Luke 15, those to whom He spoke were "Born again - Children of God".

Was the prodigal son lost when he was with his father before he left?


Were the 100 sheep lost?


The 100 sheep belonged to the shepherd.


One became lost.


How does that apply to us today?

How do we put into practice today these these principles that Jesus taught?



What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17

• If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?
• And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.

Jesus defines the steps to take, to go after a person who has sinned against you to get them to repent:

1. “Moreover [likewise] if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
2. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
3. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
4. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

Jesus was referring to people who belonged to God. The Church.


Please show me where a person who belongs to God is not born of God.



JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

In our day and time, those who are not born again need salvation.

Those who are born again have already been sealed with that holy spirit of promise.

Ephesians 1:

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

In our day and time a brother in Christ who wanders away from the truth needs to repent of face eternal death.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death;

• Brethren; James is writing to the Church and addressing brethren.
• if anyone among you wanders from the truth; again anyone among you refers to Christian brothers.
• wanders from the truth; Jesus Christ is the truth. The Gospel of the kingdom.
• let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death;

The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death.




JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

How about you provide Scripture upon which you rely which indicates that when Jesus spoke the parables in Luke 15, those to whom He spoke were "Born again - Children of God".

The people that Jesus preached the Gospel to, who believed and were baptized, were saved.


If you believe the people who Jesus preached the Gospel to, whom His disciples baptized, were not saved
(Born again), then please explain why you think this?


After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized.
John 3:22


Please explain why you think Jesus would baptize an unsaved person?



JPT

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Please show me where a person who belongs to God is not born of God.

So now you're changing the issue from "Born again - Children of God" to "person who belongs to God".

You know the difference between "born again" as in after Day of Pentecost and "belongs to God" as in prior to Day of Pentecost.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

In our day and time a brother in Christ who wanders away from the truth needs to repent of face eternal death.

In agreement that a born again believer needs to repent and turn back to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and our Father God.

Not in agreement that the born again believer faces "eternal" death. You have added the word "eternal" to what is written in James 5:20.

How about you read James 5:19-20 in light of what is written in 1 Cor 5:5 (To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus).

It could just be that James 5:19-20 is not speaking of "eternal" death (as you claim).

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The people that Jesus preached the Gospel to, who believed and were baptized, were saved.

If you believe the people who Jesus preached the Gospel to, whom His disciples baptized, were not saved
(Born again), then please explain why you think this?

Again, at the time Jesus spoke the parables in Luke 15, there were no "Born again" believers.

That you equate "saved" with "Born again" does not make it so.

Before Day of Pentecost, all who were saved were not "born again".

After Day of Pentecost, all who are born again are saved.

Example: Moses was "saved" by grace through faith. Moses was not "born again". You know this. I know this. Why do you insist on continuing the debate concerning this issue? You know that prior to Day of Pentecost, there were no "born again" believers.

After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized.
John 3:22

Please explain why you think Jesus would baptize an unsaved person?

Please explain why you believe Jesus baptized all who were present when He taught the parables in Luke 15. Thank you.

 

[memmett]

Questions???

If you left the Lord's house to venture in this world (for what ever reason) what inheritance would you ask for? Or receive?

This father did not look for his son. Jesus said he would seek out the one that strayed.

The prodigal is similar to the lost sheep in that both are a type of religious lost sinners getting saved. Both started out in the religious fold but their sinful nature led them to walk away from God. Jesus sought and found the lost sheep. The Holy Spirit drew the prodigal to a new relationship with his Father.

 

[justpassinthrough]

So now you're changing the issue from "Born again - Children of God" to "person who belongs to God".

I’m not changing anything.

I’m teaching what the scriptures say and you are denying what the scriptures say.


It’s that simple.


Sheep who become lost need salvation.


A very simple concept.


Born again is a reference to being born of God. His son. His own people.

His sheep. Reconciled to Him. Justified.

Know Him. Joined to Him.

Right with Him; Righteous


JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

Not in agreement that the born again believer faces "eternal" death. You have added the word "eternal" to what is written in James 5:20.

Yes. Eternal death.

Perish.

The second death.

Spiritual death.

As opposed to natural death: physical death.


Please explain how a soul dies, or perishes.



JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

That you equate "saved" with "Born again" does not make it so.

not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:5-7.


Justification, saved by grace, born again, regenerated, Reconciled to God are references to the same thing.


Born of God.


JPT


JPT