Well good for you. So have others and concluded that these are a bunch of false teachers.
https://standforthefaith.com/2017/09/21/beware-of-hyper-grace-andrew-farely-and-jeremy-white/
An Appeal: Lift the ban on Hyper-Grace
- Thread starter BenFTW
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https://standforthefaith.com/2017/09/21/beware-of-hyper-grace-andrew-farely-and-jeremy-white/
I just skimmed through this thread to try to figure out what the discussion is about, and the following came to mind (not sure if it adds to the discussion or not, but I'm offering it in the hopes that someone finds it helpful):
--Romans 1 to 5:12 covers the topic of "sinS"
--Romans 5:12 - chpt 8-end covers the topic of "Sin"
[I recently posted an article that briefly makes mention of a couple of verses that speak of "Sin" that are continually mis-applied/-defined/-used]
--Romans 1 to 5:12 covers the topic of "sinS"
--Romans 5:12 - chpt 8-end covers the topic of "Sin"
[I recently posted an article that briefly makes mention of a couple of verses that speak of "Sin" that are continually mis-applied/-defined/-used]
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Well now that is very interesting I have read that article and have followed Jim and his group for many years.
It may interest you to know that Jim and his friends with whom I do converse with on the internet consider Prince, Farley, White etc. false teachers you know why ................ because they preach LORDSHIP (Performance salvation) sometimes know as LOADSHIP salvation and it actually has little to do with their grace teachings.
I find it comical that the free grace crowd accuses the hyper grace crowd of lordship salvation, that puts the hyper grace crowd in league with MacArthur and his clan, hmm maybe that it why Prince is taking a picture with Micheal Brown.
You know every teacher is heretic on the internet.
Jim considers Andrew Farley false because of his view of the Bema seat and rewards I never knew this different point of view/understanding was enough to declare one a false teacher?
Jim has really concluded very little, I think the standard for false teachers is much higher than the bar he has set, no wonder Christianity is such a mess.
NayborBear
Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Might I suggest Ben, in the "light" of "free speech" verses "hyper grace?" You change the "handles" on your "battering ram?" Or, use something more in your "veiling" of it. Or, perhaps go to the Conspiracy and Corruption forum?
As it stands now, it appears you are defending hyper grace, although you are adamant you are not.
Makes one wonder just who you are trying to convince? Yourself? Or everyone else.
Just as "free speech" in the outside, or "real" world, as proponents of princapalities, may consider it, gives rise to "uttered verbages", albeit, free for those sucking air and vocalizing, are too many oft times, especially in these days, not very guarded speech! Nor very disciplined!
Mocking and scoffing, are the terms used in the Bible.
Terms such as this person is slower then the 2nd coming! Oft times used by "supposed" christians, are "buzz terms" of "mockery", indicating a "shallowness" of discipline of spirit/depth of root/s/stony groundedness, or "milkiness." There are other such "buzz terms", engaged by, and with princapalities. And, just as many oft times, the christian is, or made to feel oppressed, into joining in, with such scoffing and/or mockery. As "certain" consequences are sure to be rendered upon those who don't!
Oh yeah! Another one....It IS, what it IS! Instead of It IS, what it Has BECOME! Indicative of an assessment of, or upon the apparent direction, and reasons why it must remain the way it is. Which, of course, is very "flux", yet not up for debate, when it changes to the new and improved: It IS, what it is! Is it?
R
Ralph-
Guest
...if they keep believing as evidenced by a righteous life. Because my Bible says the person who is living in unrighteousness is not born again:
"10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."-1 John 310
On one hand I think it important to have the freedom to call people out on this horrible doctrine that says you can live in unrighteousness and be saved at the same time (John disagrees). But on the other hand, by drawing a hard and fast line and saying that this doctrine is so absurd and outside the boundaries of sensible Christian theology that it is not allowed to be discussed in the forum would in itself make people at least recognize it as a non-Christian doctrine outside of the gospel of salvation.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I think we can see still how this topic brings people to odds, and is still as heated as ever.
I think some forget, it started (at least what I saw) by a few people (ISIT and PJ) when they made some threads which were apposed to hypergrace. I know myself. I read thinking they were attacking grace, and in one op specifically, I asked for the OP (one of the two above) to show how we believed some things he stated we believed, i then proceded to show him how he was wrong in his understanding of my view. And asked him to explain why he thought I or others like me believed this view. What I got back was a heated, hatefull vengefull response of how evil I was. How wrong I was. And continued slander. It only got worse, it continued, Many followed him and I felt like I was in all out war with a group of people who had utterly no idead what I believed. (Anyone who looks up hypergrace can find these ops. Which is why I mentioned specific people. Because people can see, if I am wrong, I request the mods forgive me and ask them to please remove the names)
All the while. We also had a specific member Angela mentioned in her response. He kept posting these videos of Joseph Prince Which of course fed the war. I and many others basically begged him to stop posting these video’s But he would respond saying so many people appreciated these videos so he would not stop. So it kept going.
It got to the point we had two groups fighting each other No one listening, I myself alienated many people who were my friends because I refused to allow these LIES to continue, hoping and praying the mods would eventually do something, I could not believe they would allow slander like this. Yet I was looking outside, and not helping my own case because I was spouting things myself in anger, and just made things worse, I was just as guilty. It came to the point one group was doing what they could to make certain members mad so they would say something to get them banned, which worked, quite a few good people were banned because of retaliation. Which again, made things worse. Many members, good members left because of all the fighting. And CC stopped being the great place it was to fellowship with members all because of these wars. These wars got so bad, Mods had to also close threads, And other threads were ruined by people on both sides, Where it would get so bad and out of hand those threads to had to be closed, and people from both sides would get banned.
As for should it be reopened? I for one have no desire to see things get to this point I still have old freinds who will not talk to me, or come at me whenever i try to stand up fr my beliefs ar hold people accountable for saying others believe things they do not. Which I have always done But when you lose a reputation because of what happened with HG wars. It is hard to get that back.
Also. We still have members on their HG war, one person (who I have on ignore) still is chosing to tell everyone who believes in grace as following hypergrace. Which means since he already has a preconcieved notion of what others believe, You can never have a conversation, because he will only hear what he wants to hear, And again, This goies on with alot of people. n both sides.. Amd it does nto help one iota people who are trying to have real conversations and real discussion.
I think a member asked why do we not just discuss grace? Discuss Sanctification? Discuss doctrines which are founded by the word. Not doctrines of men, or specific groups of people (ie hypergrace, calvinanism/catholicism/arminianism etc etc) i that such a bad thing?
I do not have time to proofread this post. I have to check in with customer. So i am sure there are many typos, with my fingers or with spellcheck. If you have an issue with my spelling forgive me. I pray you understand what I wanted to say, if you have a question, please ask, do not assume you know.
I think some forget, it started (at least what I saw) by a few people (ISIT and PJ) when they made some threads which were apposed to hypergrace. I know myself. I read thinking they were attacking grace, and in one op specifically, I asked for the OP (one of the two above) to show how we believed some things he stated we believed, i then proceded to show him how he was wrong in his understanding of my view. And asked him to explain why he thought I or others like me believed this view. What I got back was a heated, hatefull vengefull response of how evil I was. How wrong I was. And continued slander. It only got worse, it continued, Many followed him and I felt like I was in all out war with a group of people who had utterly no idead what I believed. (Anyone who looks up hypergrace can find these ops. Which is why I mentioned specific people. Because people can see, if I am wrong, I request the mods forgive me and ask them to please remove the names)
All the while. We also had a specific member Angela mentioned in her response. He kept posting these videos of Joseph Prince Which of course fed the war. I and many others basically begged him to stop posting these video’s But he would respond saying so many people appreciated these videos so he would not stop. So it kept going.
It got to the point we had two groups fighting each other No one listening, I myself alienated many people who were my friends because I refused to allow these LIES to continue, hoping and praying the mods would eventually do something, I could not believe they would allow slander like this. Yet I was looking outside, and not helping my own case because I was spouting things myself in anger, and just made things worse, I was just as guilty. It came to the point one group was doing what they could to make certain members mad so they would say something to get them banned, which worked, quite a few good people were banned because of retaliation. Which again, made things worse. Many members, good members left because of all the fighting. And CC stopped being the great place it was to fellowship with members all because of these wars. These wars got so bad, Mods had to also close threads, And other threads were ruined by people on both sides, Where it would get so bad and out of hand those threads to had to be closed, and people from both sides would get banned.
As for should it be reopened? I for one have no desire to see things get to this point I still have old freinds who will not talk to me, or come at me whenever i try to stand up fr my beliefs ar hold people accountable for saying others believe things they do not. Which I have always done But when you lose a reputation because of what happened with HG wars. It is hard to get that back.
Also. We still have members on their HG war, one person (who I have on ignore) still is chosing to tell everyone who believes in grace as following hypergrace. Which means since he already has a preconcieved notion of what others believe, You can never have a conversation, because he will only hear what he wants to hear, And again, This goies on with alot of people. n both sides.. Amd it does nto help one iota people who are trying to have real conversations and real discussion.
I think a member asked why do we not just discuss grace? Discuss Sanctification? Discuss doctrines which are founded by the word. Not doctrines of men, or specific groups of people (ie hypergrace, calvinanism/catholicism/arminianism etc etc) i that such a bad thing?
I do not have time to proofread this post. I have to check in with customer. So i am sure there are many typos, with my fingers or with spellcheck. If you have an issue with my spelling forgive me. I pray you understand what I wanted to say, if you have a question, please ask, do not assume you know.
Depends. Are you talking about remission or redemption? Remission is ONLY for sins that are past (Romans 3:25), redemption is eternal (Hebrews 9:12).
About Prince I disagree with youWell now that is very interesting I have read that article and have followed Jim and his group for many years.
It may interest you to know that Jim and his friends with whom I do converse with on the internet consider Prince, Farley, White etc. false teachers you know why ................ because they preach LORDSHIP (Performance salvation) sometimes know as LOADSHIP salvation and it actually has little to do with their grace teachings.
I find it comical that the free grace crowd accuses the hyper grace crowd of lordship salvation, that puts the hyper grace crowd in league with MacArthur and his clan, hmm maybe that it why Prince is taking a picture with Micheal Brown.
You know every teacher is heretic on the internet.
Jim considers Andrew Farley false because of his view of the Bema seat and rewards I never knew this different point of view/understanding was enough to declare one a false teacher?
Jim has really concluded very little, I think the standard for false teachers is much higher than the bar he has set, no wonder Christianity is such a mess.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Redemption is based on remission. If you do not have remission you have no redemption.
And both are rooted in atonement, which is rooted in the cross.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
amen brother, but there is still a distinction. While redemption has always been the same (Hebrews 11), remission was different in the OT
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Remission is remission, The only difference in the OT was that remission was not forever, It could not be until Jesus made full restitution and atonment on the cross.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
You said you do not believe in hyper grace.
Do you believe in conditional grace? Or unconditional grace?