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We've already gone through this numerous times, justpassinthrough.
When a person is born again, he/she is sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13).
This "seal" marks the believer out as belonging to God.
If you lose your credit card and someone finds it and uses it, who does the card belong to? The person who is currently using it? or the person whose name is shown on the card?
Kind of a poor analogy, but it gets the point of "ownership" across.
Ownership of the born again believer does not change to satan when the believer sins. But that is the idea you have continuously proposed throughout the pages of this thread.
When a person is born again, he/she is sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13).
This "seal" marks the believer out as belonging to God.
If you lose your credit card and someone finds it and uses it, who does the card belong to? The person who is currently using it? or the person whose name is shown on the card?
Kind of a poor analogy, but it gets the point of "ownership" across.
Ownership of the born again believer does not change to satan when the believer sins. But that is the idea you have continuously proposed throughout the pages of this thread.
The law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant until the Seed should come.
And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:17-19
JPT
Yes, the sheep, coin and son are again the possession of the holder once they are "found'.
In the "lost" state, the person who is lost is a sinner; unreconciled, seperated from Christ.
If the person who is lost, becomes "found", then they are once again reconciled to Him, and are now once again, justified;
right with God; righteous.
If you lose a 100 dollar bill, can you spend iot.
Can you go to the store and say: I had a 100 dollar bill to pay for these groceries but I must have lost it.
Can you pay for anything with money that you lost?
Do the lost need salvation?
Yes or No?
JPT
Confess our sins to God. You admit and confess to God that you sinned; transgressed His commandments, so you can be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.
Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4
- He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar,
Do you understand what John is saying here?
JPT
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-14
The Holy Spirit is the seal of authenticity of a believer; God's seal of approval.
This does not somehow over ride the fact that a believer, one of His sheep can become lost.
Please answer the simple question: Do the lost need salvation?
Yes or No?
JPT
missing the point. the Shepard said ' I have found my lost sheep " . He did not say " one of my sheep wondered off, and was lost to Me, but I found it, now it is mine again."
and, the word likewise in the greek means " in the same manner ", or " in the same way ".
so, Jesus is saying " in the same way that a shepard rejoices when he finds one of his lost sheep, Heaven rejoices when a lost sinner repents and turns to Christ.
really important to understand what was said, and accept it, and not force opinions into the text.
and, the word likewise in the greek means " in the same manner ", or " in the same way ".
so, Jesus is saying " in the same way that a shepard rejoices when he finds one of his lost sheep, Heaven rejoices when a lost sinner repents and turns to Christ.
really important to understand what was said, and accept it, and not force opinions into the text.
Please read the verses in Galatians again (and probably better if we read the whole chapter):
Galatians 3:
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
In Gal 3:16, we see that God made promise to the seed (singular) of Abraham. Who is the Seed of Abraham to Whom God made promise? and to thy Seed, which is Christ (vs 16).
Then in Gal 3:17, we see that the law was 430 years after the promise made to Christ (the Seed of Abraham). And that law cannot disannul the promise that it should make the promise of no effect.
So we have the promise made to the Seed of Abraham, Who is Christ.
And we have the law which was 430 years after the promise and the law cannot disannul the promise.
We also see in Gal 3:17 that there was covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ.
So where did God make covenant with Abraham? We see the covenant in Gen 17.
We have two separate issues revealed here in Gal 3.
We have the promises God made to Abraham which could not be disannulled by the law which was 430 years after; and
We have the covenant between God and Abraham.
Galatians 3:
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made
So, was the law added to the promise God made to Abraham?
Or was the law added to the covenant Abraham entered into with God?
And then look at earlier verses in Gal 3 – vs 14 talks about the blessing of Abraham coming on the gentiles that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
The gentiles were not parties to the covenant God made with Abraham in Gen 17, nor the covenant God made with the children of Israel when God took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt (Heb 8:9).
But the gentiles are made partakers of the promise of the Spirit through faith (not the covenant of the law). The gentiles were parties to the promise God made to Abraham (And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed – Gal 3:8).
Interesting questions here, justpassinthrough ...
Galatians 3:
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
In Gal 3:16, we see that God made promise to the seed (singular) of Abraham. Who is the Seed of Abraham to Whom God made promise? and to thy Seed, which is Christ (vs 16).
Then in Gal 3:17, we see that the law was 430 years after the promise made to Christ (the Seed of Abraham). And that law cannot disannul the promise that it should make the promise of no effect.
So we have the promise made to the Seed of Abraham, Who is Christ.
And we have the law which was 430 years after the promise and the law cannot disannul the promise.
We also see in Gal 3:17 that there was covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ.
So where did God make covenant with Abraham? We see the covenant in Gen 17.
We have two separate issues revealed here in Gal 3.
We have the promises God made to Abraham which could not be disannulled by the law which was 430 years after; and
We have the covenant between God and Abraham.
Galatians 3:
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made
So, was the law added to the promise God made to Abraham?
Or was the law added to the covenant Abraham entered into with God?
And then look at earlier verses in Gal 3 – vs 14 talks about the blessing of Abraham coming on the gentiles that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
The gentiles were not parties to the covenant God made with Abraham in Gen 17, nor the covenant God made with the children of Israel when God took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt (Heb 8:9).
But the gentiles are made partakers of the promise of the Spirit through faith (not the covenant of the law). The gentiles were parties to the promise God made to Abraham (And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed – Gal 3:8).
Interesting questions here, justpassinthrough ...
The seal signifies "OWNERSHIP":
4972 /sphragízō ("to seal") signifies ownership and the full security carried by the backing (full authority) of the owner. "Sealing" in the ancient world served as a "legal signature" which guaranteed the promise (contents) of what was sealed.
Copyright © 1987, 2011 by Helps Ministries, Inc.
HELPS(TM) Word-studies
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Here is what you stated in your Post #167:
Once we belong to God, if/when we stray, we need to be found (And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost — Luke 15:5-6).
Once we belong to God, if/when we stray, we need to be found (And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost — Luke 15:5-6).
Please address my actual post.
There is no scripture in the bible that refers to the lost as someone who never believed.
To be lost, a person must first belong to God.
A person can not loose something they never owned.
I can't lose a coin that belongs to someone else.
Do the lost need salvation?
JLB
According to you, the "lost" spoken of in the parables in Luke 15 already belong to God.
God's seal represents OWNERSHIP. Yet you essentially claim that God's seal which represents OWNERSHIP is ineffective and meaningless. You appear to claim that God loses ownership of one of His own when one of His children wanders.
The "lost" who belong to God do not need "salvation". In our day and time, the "lost" who belong to God (the born again believer) need to be "found" just as shown in the parables of Luke 15.
In our day and time, those who do not belong to God do need "salvation".
God's seal represents OWNERSHIP. Yet you essentially claim that God's seal which represents OWNERSHIP is ineffective and meaningless. You appear to claim that God loses ownership of one of His own when one of His children wanders.
The "lost" who belong to God do not need "salvation". In our day and time, the "lost" who belong to God (the born again believer) need to be "found" just as shown in the parables of Luke 15.
In our day and time, those who do not belong to God do need "salvation".
Thanks for sharing.
Please provide a scripture for your statement.
My point is that someone must own something first, for it to become lost.
“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7
- What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them,
The 100 sheep belonged to the man.
One became lost.
Can you please define lost from the passage?
JPT