Who are the inspired scriptures directed to?

[LaJolla]

When invited to the Marriage supper of the Lamb, we will enter through a door. A sign above the door says 'Enter here all who would'. We go through the door, and look back over our entrance. Above the door is written, 'Chosen before the beginning of time'.
Matthew 7:13 : Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
Manifest God's perfect love and mercy to eachother. This is His will. You will yield eternal fruit for the Kingdom.

 

[LaJolla]

Hi BaptistBibleBeliever, my post was specifically concerned with unbelievers and what was said about them in the first half of v18, so I'm somewhat confused about the point you are making about the 2nd half of that verse.

If it has to do with σῴζω [sozo], I believe that verb can be translated "are saved" or "are being saved", but I (along with every other translation and paraphrase other than the AV) think that "are being saved" is preferable, because σῴζω (present, passive, participle) speaks of an action in progress/one which is still taking place. Again though, both are acceptable translations because both translations mean the same thing in context.

~Deut

I wanted to post this message, but Deuteronomy got there first. Our gracious, undeserved salvation is present and on-going. We fail unknowingly, we are upheld unaware, we are loved so profoundly.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I see calvinism is in full swing over in this thread.

The facts are that God wants all to be saved, God's grace has appeared unto all men TEACHING to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, Jesus tasted death for every man, the world, all, and we should pray for all people, God commands all to repent, the true light gives light to every man that comes into the world.

And contrary to what ForestgreenCook just stated, we are not given the Holy Spirit PRIOR to belief. This is in contradiction to Ephesians 1:13.
Nobody in the NT got the Spirit before they believed, like in Pentecost or with the Ephesians or with Cornelius.

1 Corinthians 2 is talking about the deep things of God, as is clear from the earlier verses. Not about understanding the simple message of the Gospel. Here is how people gain faith: Faith cometh by HEARING and hearing by the word of God. You hear the Gospel, you believe the Gospel, you are saved, simple.

You cant just pick up a bible and come out a calvinist as I said before on this forum, it cant happen. Limited atonement especially is so contrary to the NT that you have to read it into the text, force it upon it. And even that isnt enough, you have to make philosophical arguments about "Well does God really save or make saveable" and other falsehoods, when the truth is God does both.

EDIT: I noticed you also said we are justified BEFORE we believe? That is also contrary to scripture:

Galatians 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

This is repeated many times ALL OVER the NT.
Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

We are Justified by Christ's faith; Gal 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith "OF" Jesus Christ. Rom 3:22 - Even the righteousness of God which is by faith "OF" Jesus Christ. Isa 53:11 - By his knowledge shall my righteous servant (Jesus) justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Gal 3:24-25 - Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified, cleared of all guilt, by faith (of Christ) But after that faith (Christ) is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (the old law).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

When invited to the Marriage supper of the Lamb, we will enter through a door. A sign above the door says 'Enter here all who would'. We go through the door, and look back over our entrance. Above the door is written, 'Chosen before the beginning of time'.
Matthew 7:13 : Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
Manifest God's perfect love and mercy to eachother. This is His will. You will yield eternal fruit for the Kingdom.

I probably have a different view of the two gates than you do. I believe that those that go in both gates are regenerated children of God. Those that go into the wide gate are the children of God who are believing and preaching heresies, mainly eternal salvation by works. Those children of God that go in the straight gate are those who have been revealed the truth of Jesus's doctrine, by the Holy Spirit within them, and have been earnestly seeking the truth. The life that the narrow way leads to is not eternal life, because many have eternal life, but to the church that Jesus set up when he was on earth, which gives us a life we can have here on earth, without fear of condemnation, but with contentment, joy and peace.

 

[notuptome]

I probably have a different view of the two gates than you do. I believe that those that go in both gates are regenerated children of God. Those that go into the wide gate are the children of God who are believing and preaching heresies, mainly eternal salvation by works. Those children of God that go in the straight gate are those who have been revealed the truth of Jesus's doctrine, by the Holy Spirit within them, and have been earnestly seeking the truth. The life that the narrow way leads to is not eternal life, because many have eternal life, but to the church that Jesus set up when he was on earth, which gives us a life we can have here on earth, without fear of condemnation, but with contentment, joy and peace.

I understand that heretics often find themselves far outside of orthodox teaching in biblical matters. Without a proper biblical foundation you will never have sound doctrine. As you are often want to say the natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[peacefulbeliever]

We are Justified by Christ's faith; Gal 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith "OF" Jesus Christ. Rom 3:22 - Even the righteousness of God which is by faith "OF" Jesus Christ. Isa 53:11 - By his knowledge shall my righteous servant (Jesus) justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Gal 3:24-25 - Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified, cleared of all guilt, by faith (of Christ) But after that faith (Christ) is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (the old law).

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
It seems that we are justified by the faith of Jesus Christ through our belief in him.

Yes, Jesus Christ does justify many - namely, those who believe in him.

God justifies the heathen through faith . . . Gal. 3:8 . . . Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith (our belief in Christ) is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster for you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I understand that heretics often find themselves far outside of orthodox teaching in biblical matters. Without a proper biblical foundation you will never have sound doctrine. As you are often want to say the natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

And unless you will become to believe that the natural man cannot discern spiritual things, like it plainly states, you will never understand Jesus's doctrine.

 

[notuptome]

And unless you will become to believe that the natural man cannot discern spiritual things, like it plainly states, you will never understand Jesus's doctrine.

While you make many claims the claim specific to knowing Jesus as Savior is the one that is least evident in your theology.

Salvation is by grace not by election. Election is post salvation by grace through faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
It seems that we are justified by the faith of Jesus Christ through our belief in him.

Yes, Jesus Christ does justify many - namely, those who believe in him.

God justifies the heathen through faith . . . Gal. 3:8 . . . Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith (our belief in Christ) is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster for you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

The natural person or heathen, as you prefer to call them, has no spiritual faith 1 Cor 2:10. A person does not have a spiritual faith until they have been regenerated and given the Holy Spirit.(Eph 2:5) Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22). Being born again of the Spirit comes first, then faith follows. Gal 3:24, I think is the scripture that you quoted, and lets look at 25 also- But after faith (strong's Greek meaning for faith in this scripture, and in verse 24 also, is simply stated "CHRIST" Christ's faith. After we have been regenerated the Spirit begins to reveal some truths to us about how Jesus justified us on the cross, and after we have faith that Jesus was our justification we believe in Jesus for our justification.

 

[LaJolla]

I probably have a different view of the two gates than you do. I believe that those that go in both gates are regenerated children of God. Those that go into the wide gate are the children of God who are believing and preaching heresies, mainly eternal salvation by works. Those children of God that go in the straight gate are those who have been revealed the truth of Jesus's doctrine, by the Holy Spirit within them, and have been earnestly seeking the truth. The life that the narrow way leads to is not eternal life, because many have eternal life, but to the church that Jesus set up when he was on earth, which gives us a life we can have here on earth, without fear of condemnation, but with contentment, joy and peace.

Hey ForrestGreen, I understand what you said, but Jesus didn't mince words about the 'gates'. One leads to life, one to death. Simples.
Matthew 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it."
Perhaps you will get that I can't pretend Jesus didn't say that. Some belief systems say 'don't worry about that'. I think those are lies.

Be a river of God's LIFE in you world.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

While you make many claims the claim specific to knowing Jesus as Savior is the one that is least evident in your theology.

Salvation is by grace not by election. Election is post salvation by grace through faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You are giving the natural man the ability to discern spiritual things. How can you ignore that is the opposite of what 1 Cor 2:14 says? Eph 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith (This faith is not man's faith, but the faithfulness of Christ going to the cross) and even says, "and that not of yourselves (not your faith) lest any man should boast. Choosing his elect was before he formed the world. does not sound like post salvation to me. Your claim that God is not all powerful in that he cannot save all mankind, although he wants to save them, and that he cannot accomplish all of his will is "evident" in your theology.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hey ForrestGreen, I understand what you said, but Jesus didn't mince words about the 'gates'. One leads to life, one to death. Simples.
Matthew 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it."
Perhaps you will get that I can't pretend Jesus didn't say that. Some belief systems say 'don't worry about that'. I think those are lies.

Be a river of God's LIFE in you world.

I believe that all of the scriptures harmonize, and we should not set aside any of them without trying to prove them with the other scriptures. Destruction in Matthew 7:13 according to Strong's concordance means; Ruin, or loss (physical,spiritual or eternal) Those that are cleaving to the old law of works are considered "dead" to a fellowship with God (as those in the wide gate) Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. Sometimes on face value we can come up with an unclear picture of the meaning of a scripture unless we glean the truth of them by comparing them to other scriptures. There are some scriptures that I have difficulty understanding, but I think we should keep studying and comparing the scriptures and asking the Holy Spirit to reveal. I believe there will be so many in heaven that they will be to many to number. That is why I do not believe the strait gate is talking about those going to heaven.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The natural person or heathen, as you prefer to call them, has no spiritual faith 1 Cor 2:10. A person does not have a spiritual faith until they have been regenerated and given the Holy Spirit.(Eph 2:5) Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22). Being born again of the Spirit comes first, then faith follows. Gal 3:24, I think is the scripture that you quoted, and lets look at 25 also- But after faith (strong's Greek meaning for faith in this scripture, and in verse 24 also, is simply stated "CHRIST" Christ's faith. After we have been regenerated the Spirit begins to reveal some truths to us about how Jesus justified us on the cross, and after we have faith that Jesus was our justification we believe in Jesus for our justification.

Actually, I don't prefer to call them "heathen" . . . that was the word God used. One does NOT receive the holy Spirit UNTIL one has heard and believes the gospel of salvation - THEN they are sealed with the holy Spirit.

A person must have some knowledge of good and evil for even a person not born again does good things. A person must have some capability to hear and learn for that is why God sent preachers . . . that is how one hears and when one hears enough to believe what is written concerning Jesus Christ life, death and resurrection then faith comes . . . (Rom. 10:17) God gave men minds, reasonal, rational minds to make choices in life based on what they know/learn.

It is by grace through faith (belief, trust) that one is saved. Faith is not some mystical thing that suddenly appears - Faith is being fully persuaded of something . . . convinced of something - again, comes from hearing the word of God. (faith - conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things)

One can only be born again of the Spirit by believing in Jesus Christ - again - faith comes by hearing and being fully persuaded of the truth. Galatians 3:25 But after faith - same faith that is in Eph. 2:8 - pistis - conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things; relating to God - the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ; relating to Christ - a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God . . . . same Greek word used in Galatians 3:23,24,25,26

We are NOT justified until we believe in Jesus Christ death and resurrection . . . Just as Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness . . . the righteousness of God is given through faith in Jesus Christ to ALL WHO BELIEVE . . . (Rom. 3:22) he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith (belief, trust, conviction) in Jesus. (Rom. 3:26)

 

[Endoscopy]

They are not written to the unsaved natural man who cannot discern spiritual things, but to those children of God who have been regenerated and are able to discern spiritual things. The scriptures are instructions from God telling his children how they should live their lives here on earth and also informing them how they have been saved from their sins by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. They are not scriptures telling the natural man, who cannot discern spiritual things, how to get saved eternally. We are all born into this world as "dead in sins" until God regenerates us, when we are yet dead in sins and unable to respond to spiritual things.(Eph 2:5).

However Christians are commanded by the great commission to go into all the world and make disciples baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Calvinists believe while doing this that God has to touch their heart to accept the gospel. Armenians believe they make the decision on their own. Disagreements abound about issues in Christianity. That is why the creeds were created. They define what a Christian MUST believe. All else is to agree to disagree. That is why there are so many gospel preaching denominations.

 

[notuptome]

You are giving the natural man the ability to discern spiritual things. How can you ignore that is the opposite of what 1 Cor 2:14 says? Eph 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith (This faith is not man's faith, but the faithfulness of Christ going to the cross) and even says, "and that not of yourselves (not your faith) lest any man should boast. Choosing his elect was before he formed the world. does not sound like post salvation to me. Your claim that God is not all powerful in that he cannot save all mankind, although he wants to save them, and that he cannot accomplish all of his will is "evident" in your theology.

It is faith produced by hearing the word of God.

You do not understand how to be saved. You have your way and God has His way. I'm going with Gods way. You completely discount the ministry of the Holy Spirit as shown in John 16:8-11. God draws and man responds.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[fredoheaven]

General observation: Understanding the event sequence of when one is 'saved' and justified may be a challenge to our perspective living in space-time, with no way to see beyond time. Our Father is outside the time domain, which is tricky at best to put into our understanding, so please don't sweat the small stuff. Our Father is on the Throne. Who chose whom?

• [John 15:16a] Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain:
• [2 Th 2:13] But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
• [Luke 18:6,7] And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him...
• [Eph 1:11-12] In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
• [1 Cor 1:27-29] God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nothing things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.
• [1 Pet 1:2] Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
• [Eph 1:4-5] According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

Show His love to the people around you.

Interesting Verses to look up to...

• [John 15:16a] Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain:

This is in reference to Christ choosing for fruitfulness of believers/ saved during his earthly ministry and the choosing was not before the foundation of the world.

• [2 Th 2:13] But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Perceived that the very beginning of this choosing is through the setting apart by the Holy Spirit and our belief of the truth of the gospel and this was not done before the foundation of the world.

• [Luke 18:6,7] And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him...

Okay, the elect are they who choose to pray for him.

• [Eph 1:11-12] In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

This pre-ordination began after one trusted Christ and not before the foundation of the world. The election is to the praise of his glory enabling the saved to do what’s right. Alleluia!

• [1 Cor 1:27-29] God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nothing things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.

God choose the folly of this world to compound the wise but when? Just when someone thinks he knows many things.

• [1 Pet 1:2] Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

What is being referred to as Elect base on the foreknowledge of God the Father? It is referred not to the people but God chosen how we are save through the sanctification of the Spirit and the redeeming act of Christ. Amazing Grace, O how sweet the sound…

[Eph 1:4-5] According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

That is IN HIM. Christ is the elect to the good pleasure of his will…

 

[LaJolla]

Interesting Verses to look up to...

• [John 15:16a] Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain:

This is in reference to Christ choosing for fruitfulness of believers/ saved during his earthly ministry and the choosing was not before the foundation of the world.

• [2 Th 2:13] But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Perceived that the very beginning of this choosing is through the setting apart by the Holy Spirit and our belief of the truth of the gospel and this was not done before the foundation of the world.

• [Luke 18:6,7] And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him...

Okay, the elect are they who choose to pray for him.

• [Eph 1:11-12] In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

This pre-ordination began after one trusted Christ and not before the foundation of the world. The election is to the praise of his glory enabling the saved to do what’s right. Alleluia!

• [1 Cor 1:27-29] God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nothing things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.

God choose the folly of this world to compound the wise but when? Just when someone thinks he knows many things.

• [1 Pet 1:2] Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

What is being referred to as Elect base on the foreknowledge of God the Father? It is referred not to the people but God chosen how we are save through the sanctification of the Spirit and the redeeming act of Christ. Amazing Grace, O how sweet the sound…

[Eph 1:4-5] According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

That is IN HIM. Christ is the elect to the good pleasure of his will…

Hey Fredo, thanks for the review. Didn't get your 'point'. Our Father needs no clocks. He chose us. Satan would have us ask, 'Did God really say'. Well, He did. I don't live in the timeless realm of our Saviour. We are in time-space, in the flesh, not in the unbounded domain of our Father. Please suffer my ignorance. Jesus keep you, Jesus guide you. Really don't get your point. Sorry. Seems you define meaning you make up as fact to serve your personal degree of understanding. Seems you are taking a shot at my post for your ego's sake. You fail to indicate you understand what I am stating. HE CHOOSES US. GET IT? Try encouraging others, if your serve LIFE, the source. If you are merely another 2D troll, Jesus heal you. Nothing is hidden from my Saviour's perception. Not long now.

 

[LaJolla]

I believe that all of the scriptures harmonize, and we should not set aside any of them without trying to prove them with the other scriptures. Destruction in Matthew 7:13 according to Strong's concordance means; Ruin, or loss (physical,spiritual or eternal) Those that are cleaving to the old law of works are considered "dead" to a fellowship with God (as those in the wide gate) Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. Sometimes on face value we can come up with an unclear picture of the meaning of a scripture unless we glean the truth of them by comparing them to other scriptures. There are some scriptures that I have difficulty understanding, but I think we should keep studying and comparing the scriptures and asking the Holy Spirit to reveal. I believe there will be so many in heaven that they will be to many to number. That is why I do not believe the strait gate is talking about those going to heaven.

Hey, Forrest, thank you for your candidness. I see what you are saying and appreciate you are using Strong's and instinct to find meaning. I am usually wrong and don't need to be 'right'. I see so much deception and diversion, even among sincere folk. I pray not to be deceived.
What I wanted to get across was that BROAD IS THE PATH THAT LEADS TO DESTRUCTION, AND MANY FIND IT (and are content to follow it).
Forrest, not attacking you. Just saying that our enemy sows doubt and division, as if His path could be flexy. In the flesh, we are easily fooled. Many are called but few are chosen. Be strong. Know you are loved and protected.

 

[fredoheaven]

Hey Fredo, thanks for the review. Didn't get your 'point'. Our Father needs no clocks. He chose us. Satan would have us ask, 'Did God really say'. Well, He did. I don't live in the timeless realm of our Saviour. We are in time-space, in the flesh, not in the unbounded domain of our Father. Please suffer my ignorance. Jesus keep you, Jesus guide you. Really don't get your point. Sorry. Seems you define meaning you make up as fact to serve your personal degree of understanding. Seems you are taking a shot at my post for your ego's sake. You fail to indicate you understand what I am stating. HE CHOOSES US. GET IT? Try encouraging others, if your serve LIFE, the source. If you are merely another 2D troll, Jesus heal you. Nothing is hidden from my Saviour's perception. Not long now.

That might be another perspective of getting to know what really the word/scripture is saying that we are chosen indeed after we are saved for a specific purpose. Sometimes the scriptures are not talking directly to us “being chosen for salvation” as the Calvinist does but the reality the scripture speaks about the means of salvation. Well you can just ignore me if you wish and I might be a 2D troll to you. I do really GET IT. He chooses us because we have chosen Him. Pardon me also because I chide in with your post without your consent, my bad…btw, you are a new member in this forum and glad you're here not unless you have change your name...

God bless

 

[Jackson123]

Interesting Verses to look up to...

• [John 15:16a] Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain:

This is in reference to Christ choosing for fruitfulness of believers/ saved during his earthly ministry and the choosing was not before the foundation of the world.

• [2 Th 2:13] But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Perceived that the very beginning of this choosing is through the setting apart by the Holy Spirit and our belief of the truth of the gospel and this was not done before the foundation of the world.

• [Luke 18:6,7] And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him...

Okay, the elect are they who choose to pray for him.

• [Eph 1:11-12] In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

This pre-ordination began after one trusted Christ and not before the foundation of the world. The election is to the praise of his glory enabling the saved to do what’s right. Alleluia!

• [1 Cor 1:27-29] God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nothing things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.

God choose the folly of this world to compound the wise but when? Just when someone thinks he knows many things.

• [1 Pet 1:2] Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

What is being referred to as Elect base on the foreknowledge of God the Father? It is referred not to the people but God chosen how we are save through the sanctification of the Spirit and the redeeming act of Christ. Amazing Grace, O how sweet the sound…

[Eph 1:4-5] According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

That is IN HIM. Christ is the elect to the good pleasure of his will…