Who are the inspired scriptures directed to?

[Jackson123]

Interesting Verses to look up to...

• [John 15:16a] Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain:

This is in reference to Christ choosing for fruitfulness of believers/ saved during his earthly ministry and the choosing was not before the foundation of the world.

• [2 Th 2:13] But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Perceived that the very beginning of this choosing is through the setting apart by the Holy Spirit and our belief of the truth of the gospel and this was not done before the foundation of the world.

• [Luke 18:6,7] And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him...

Okay, the elect are they who choose to pray for him.

• [Eph 1:11-12] In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

This pre-ordination began after one trusted Christ and not before the foundation of the world. The election is to the praise of his glory enabling the saved to do what’s right. Alleluia!

• [1 Cor 1:27-29] God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nothing things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.

God choose the folly of this world to compound the wise but when? Just when someone thinks he knows many things.

• [1 Pet 1:2] Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

What is being referred to as Elect base on the foreknowledge of God the Father? It is referred not to the people but God chosen how we are save through the sanctification of the Spirit and the redeeming act of Christ. Amazing Grace, O how sweet the sound…

[Eph 1:4-5] According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

That is IN HIM. Christ is the elect to the good pleasure of his will…

God chosen us, to believe in Him, is that mean He force us?

If I am chosen to be a student of elementry school is that mean I am forced to be a student? Can I say No?

If I am chosen by God to follow Jesus is that mean only me Being chosen?

Is that not posible every human chosen and only few accept?

God not chose satan but human.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hey, Forrest, thank you for your candidness. I see what you are saying and appreciate you are using Strong's and instinct to find meaning. I am usually wrong and don't need to be 'right'. I see so much deception and diversion, even among sincere folk. I pray not to be deceived.
What I wanted to get across was that BROAD IS THE PATH THAT LEADS TO DESTRUCTION, AND MANY FIND IT (and are content to follow it).
Forrest, not attacking you. Just saying that our enemy sows doubt and division, as if His path could be flexy. In the flesh, we are easily fooled. Many are called but few are chosen. Be strong. Know you are loved and protected.

Thank you for your gentle attitude. Many are called (the wide gate) but few are chosen (the strait gate). Matt 20:16 - So the last shall be first, and the first last; for many are called, but few chosen. The church that Jesus set up has, throughout history, been referred to as, the little flock, the few, the remnant, etc. Just my interpretation, the scriptures seem to harmonize better for me with this interpretation.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

It is faith produced by hearing the word of God.

You do not understand how to be saved. You have your way and God has His way. I'm going with Gods way. You completely discount the ministry of the Holy Spirit as shown in John 16:8-11. God draws and man responds.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The thing that you cannot understand is that the natural man cannot "respond" until
God regenerates him as stated in Eph 2, especially verse 5.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God chosen us, to believe in Him, is that mean He force us?

If I am chosen to be a student of elementry school is that mean I am forced to be a student? Can I say No?

If I am chosen by God to follow Jesus is that mean only me Being chosen?

Is that not posible every human chosen and only few accept?

God not chose satan but human.

God choose an elect people before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4), because by his foreknowledge he could see that no one would choose him (Ps 53:2-3) God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back, they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth goon, no, not one. Yes, God choose us to believe in him, but the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot believe in him until God regenerates him (Eph 2, especially verse 5). If God wants to regenerate a person, according to Eph2:5 they cannot have a choice of anything spiritual because they are "dead(a corps-Strong's definition) in sins.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

John 15:16 - God choose an elect people before the foundation of the world, have you not read Eph 1? Jesus is doing the choosing in this verse, not God, choosing the apostles to be ordained to preach the gospel. 2 Thes 2:13 - God hath from the beginning (of the world) chosen you, that you would be sanctified by Christ's death on the cross, and would be regenerated,and given the Holy Spirit, which would reveal truths to you. Luke 18:6-7 - I don't think that Jacob was his elect because he prayed to him, according to Rom 9:11. which says he was not born yet. Eph 1:11-12 - God "PRE" determined, before the foundation of the world, that we should be to the praise of his glory, who trusted in Christ after they were regenerated from their former state of being "dead in sins"(Eph 2 especially in verse 5). 1 Cor 1:26-27 - God is "all knowing" (Isa 46:10) Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure. 1 Pet 1:2 - Same account as in 2 Thes 2:13. Eph 1:4-5 - God choose before the foundation of the world, that the people he choose would be in Christ after he regenerated (Eph 2:5). It never seems to amaze me just how far the children of God will go to try to do away with the fact that God choose an elect people.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Actually, I don't prefer to call them "heathen" . . . that was the word God used. One does NOT receive the holy Spirit UNTIL one has heard and believes the gospel of salvation - THEN they are sealed with the holy Spirit.

A person must have some knowledge of good and evil for even a person not born again does good things. A person must have some capability to hear and learn for that is why God sent preachers . . . that is how one hears and when one hears enough to believe what is written concerning Jesus Christ life, death and resurrection then faith comes . . . (Rom. 10:17) God gave men minds, reasonal, rational minds to make choices in life based on what they know/learn.

It is by grace through faith (belief, trust) that one is saved. Faith is not some mystical thing that suddenly appears - Faith is being fully persuaded of something . . . convinced of something - again, comes from hearing the word of God. (faith - conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things)

One can only be born again of the Spirit by believing in Jesus Christ - again - faith comes by hearing and being fully persuaded of the truth. Galatians 3:25 But after faith - same faith that is in Eph. 2:8 - pistis - conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things; relating to God - the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ; relating to Christ - a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God . . . . same Greek word used in Galatians 3:23,24,25,26

We are NOT justified until we believe in Jesus Christ death and resurrection . . . Just as Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness . . . the righteousness of God is given through faith in Jesus Christ to ALL WHO BELIEVE . . . (Rom. 3:22) he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith (belief, trust, conviction) in Jesus. (Rom. 3:26)

I think it would help you understand my point if you would take a long hard look at 1 Cor 2:14 and tell me if the natural man is capable of doing those things you have suggested before he is regenerated as explained in Eph 2 especially verse 5. Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22) and the natural man cannot have spiritual faith before he has the Spirit. He receives the Spirit in regeneration.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

That might be another perspective of getting to know what really the word/scripture is saying that we are chosen indeed after we are saved for a specific purpose. Sometimes the scriptures are not talking directly to us “being chosen for salvation” as the Calvinist does but the reality the scripture speaks about the means of salvation. Well you can just ignore me if you wish and I might be a 2D troll to you. I do really GET IT. He chooses us because we have chosen Him. Pardon me also because I chide in with your post without your consent, my bad…btw, you are a new member in this forum and glad you're here not unless you have change your name...

God bless

I am sorry that my post #185 did not get attached to your comments. I am not too good with the computer.

 

[LaJolla]

I believe that all of the scriptures harmonize, and we should not set aside any of them without trying to prove them with the other scriptures..... I believe there will be so many in heaven that they will be to many to number. That is why I do not believe the strait gate is talking about those going to heaven.

I utterly respect your honesty and thoughts on this. I was just sharing my grasp on the 'Gates' Jesus spoke about. Our enemy, the father of lies, wants us to trust that we can be flexy on the Word we have been given. I know from personal experience how deceitful my heart is: not to be trusted. The Word says what it says, and it takes humility not to bend it for our comfort. A sharp sword is not comfortable.
Be Strong, ForrestGreenCook!

 

[LaJolla]

That might be another perspective of getting to know what really the word/scripture is saying that we are chosen indeed after we are saved for a specific purpose. Sometimes the scriptures are not talking directly to us “being chosen for salvation” as the Calvinist does but the reality the scripture speaks about the means of salvation. Well you can just ignore me if you wish and I might be a 2D troll to you. I do really GET IT. He chooses us because we have chosen Him. Pardon me also because I chide in with your post without your consent, my bad…btw, you are a new member in this forum and glad you're here not unless you have change your name...

God bless

Didn't mean to offend, Fredo. I am new. I am not against you, just bruised from some attacks of name-calling against me, which I have now done against you. Sorry. My bad. I won't ignore you. 'As iron sharpen iron'... Correct me whenever you wish.

 

[Endoscopy]

They are not written to the unsaved natural man who cannot discern spiritual things, but to those children of God who have been regenerated and are able to discern spiritual things. The scriptures are instructions from God telling his children how they should live their lives here on earth and also informing them how they have been saved from their sins by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. They are not scriptures telling the natural man, who cannot discern spiritual things, how to get saved eternally. We are all born into this world as "dead in sins" until God regenerates us, when we are yet dead in sins and unable to respond to spiritual things.(Eph 2:5).

I disagree. While committed atheists will reject them there are other unsaved people who might read and understand. Most likely they will really need to hear the word of God. This is done by a Christian witnessing to them. Faith comes by hearing. They will be more open to a friend sharing with them than a stranger accosting them. Those old enough to remember there was an evangelism event wanting to reach everyone in America and had the symbol of a hand pointing up. 👆 I went house to house and talked to a lot of people. I only got 1 person who was interested. One atheist told me he never did anything wrong.

 

[Endoscopy]

I utterly respect your honesty and thoughts on this. I was just sharing my grasp on the 'Gates' Jesus spoke about. Our enemy, the father of lies, wants us to trust that we can be flexy on the Word we have been given. I know from personal experience how deceitful my heart is: not to be trusted. The Word says what it says, and it takes humility not to bend it for our comfort. A sharp sword is not comfortable.
Be Strong, ForrestGreenCook!

There is a problem you are ignoring. The creeds were written between 212 and 500. They are to define what a person must believe to be a Christian. Anything outside of them is to agree to disagree over the issues. There is a wide variety of issues being disagreed about. For instance the 5 points of Calvinism and Armenianism are totally opposite of each other. Both have long forms of the points with lots of scripture backing them up. There are gospel preaching denominations on both sides of the issues and some in between the 2 sides. Anyone wanting to believe that the Bible is clear cut on every issue should study both sides of this argument.

The quinquarticular controversy is the difference between the 5 points of Calvinism and Armenianism. Both are diametrically opposed to each other.

Calvinism
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Armenianism

1. Free will or Human ability
2. Unconditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. Resistible grace
5. Falling from Grace

 

[LaJolla]

There is a problem you are ignoring. ...

Nice academic overview. "The creeds were written between 212 and 500." Says it all. the original post was about 'to whom were the scriptures directed'. On that topic, perhaps you would concede many unsaved, uninspired academics find patterns in the scriptures and make 'rules' about them. Golly. Thankfully, my Father makes the rules and patterns that matter. I don't fuss about dichotomies generated by limited human intelligence. People see what they need to see and argue over words, as you know.
Hope you world is full of His Love and Power, Endo.

 

[fredoheaven]

God chosen us, to believe in Him, is that mean He force us?

If I am chosen to be a student of elementry school is that mean I am forced to be a student? Can I say No?

If I am chosen by God to follow Jesus is that mean only me Being chosen?

Is that not posible every human chosen and only few accept?

God not chose satan but human.

Hi Jackson123,

The selection of God in those passages and in many passages of the bible will always precede faith. In reality, God hath chosen us because we believed. Now does God forces us to believe in Him? I believe we are fearfully and wonderfully made (Ps. 39:14) We are created in the image and in the likeness of God (Gen.1:26-27) This image and the likeness can simply refer to mankind’s having the will, emotion and intellect. God does not create a puppet for a puppet show, but a creature for his own glory. The capacity is to make a choice, whether we receive or resist. The rest are great points to consider.
God bless

 

[fredoheaven]

John 15:16 - God choose an elect people before the foundation of the world, have you not read Eph 1? Jesus is doing the choosing in this verse, not God, choosing the apostles to be ordained to preach the gospel.

Right, Jesus is doing the choosing in this verse, choosing his disciples for fruit bearing. But what does it mean “not God” been perplexed here. Are you saying God the Father? Further, I am reading John 15:16 and has no connection with some “…elect people before the foundation of the world.” The fact is Jesus did choose them during his earthly ministry. Even the Ephesians 1, I haven’t yet read the thing “God choose an elect of people before the foundation of the world” though I read that over and over. I even challenge myself to go to the other English versions/interpretations of the seeming “chosen elect before the foundation of the world” but to my despair, it’s none. Perhaps, I’m too lazy or that I have specks in my eyes. Could you show me then the text where you got the idea? Moreover, I was then asking myself what does this mean of “elect world” “world of believers only” Does this mean A) Some choose one’s idea B) some may have privately interpret the scripture C) Some err, not knowing the scriptures?

 

[Endoscopy]

Nice academic overview. "The creeds were written between 212 and 500." Says it all. the original post was about 'to whom were the scriptures directed'. On that topic, perhaps you would concede many unsaved, uninspired academics find patterns in the scriptures and make 'rules' about them. Golly. Thankfully, my Father makes the rules and patterns that matter. I don't fuss about dichotomies generated by limited human intelligence. People see what they need to see and argue over words, as you know.
Hope you world is full of His Love and Power, Endo.

It is obvious that you have absolutely no concept of why those creeds were written. At that time bibles were scarce and very expensive. Creeds and some memorized scriptures were all they had until the printing press was invented. That was all they had back then so that was how Christianity was spread to everyone they could reach. That is who the scriptures were for, everyone.

 

[fredoheaven]

2 Thes 2:13 - God hath from the beginning (of the world) chosen you, that you would be sanctified by Christ's death on the cross, and would be regenerated,and given the Holy Spirit, which would reveal truths to you. Luke 18:6-7 - I don't think that Jacob was his elect because he prayed to him, according to Rom 9:11. which says he was not born yet.

Again, 2 Thes. 2:13 is not talking of the beginning of the world. Just because of the word beginning would mean of the creation days? If so, then the beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ began before the foundation of the world and does not coincide with the John the Baptist ministry? I don’t think so… Mark 1:1-3…
Hmm, Jacob is another story to tell but what Luke 18:16-17 does refer to are believers being chosen to pray. Prayer is part of the newly converts for him to grow and exactly that is what the early believers in Acts 2 did and continued daily.

 

[fredoheaven]

Eph 1:11-12 - God "PRE" determined, before the foundation of the world, that we should be to the praise of his glory, who trusted in Christ after they were regenerated from their former state of being "dead in sins"(Eph 2 especially in verse 5). 1 Cor 1:26-27 - God is "all knowing" (Isa 46:10) Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure. 1 Pet 1:2 - Same account as in 2 Thes 2:13. Eph 1:4-5 - God choose before the foundation of the world, that the people he choose would be in Christ after he regenerated (Eph 2:5). It never seems to amaze me just how far the children of God will go to try to do away with the fact that God choose an elect people.

I believe the basis of God’s selection is on the foreknowledge of God. But the question on the text on Ephesians 1 is that are the people being chosen to believe or the plan of God on which he will chose. To look back in Genesis 3:15 would give us the hint that God plans of saving mankind, a prophecy that the serpent will be bruised in his head and Christ will be bruised in his heel. Apparently, this is what meant here that God has foreordained the redemption of mankind and he elected Christ as the means of salvation.

 

[Endoscopy]

Nice academic overview. "The creeds were written between 212 and 500." Says it all. the original post was about 'to whom were the scriptures directed'. On that topic, perhaps you would concede many unsaved, uninspired academics find patterns in the scriptures and make 'rules' about them. Golly. Thankfully, my Father makes the rules and patterns that matter. I don't fuss about dichotomies generated by limited human intelligence. People see what they need to see and argue over words, as you know.
Hope you world is full of His Love and Power, Endo.

Please explain to me why there are so many gospel preaching denominations that disagree with each other outside of the creeds. Creeds are the beliefs that a Christian must believe. Could it be as the elders back then said that outside of the creeds it was agree to disagree and back then like now there were lots of issues where disagreements occurred?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I disagree. While committed atheists will reject them there are other unsaved people who might read and understand. Most likely they will really need to hear the word of God. This is done by a Christian witnessing to them. Faith comes by hearing. They will be more open to a friend sharing with them than a stranger accosting them. Those old enough to remember there was an evangelism event wanting to reach everyone in America and had the symbol of a hand pointing up. 👆 I went house to house and talked to a lot of people. I only got 1 person who was interested. One atheist told me he never did anything wrong.

If we want to base our remarks on scripture, let us look at 1 Cor 2:14, The natural man (void of the Spirit) cannot discern spiritual things, they are foolishness unto him. He is not pron to pick up a bible to read, even if he did, it would not make sense to him. The only way that the natural man can discern spiritual things is explained in Eph 2, especially in verse 5. God regenerates him and gives him the Holy Spirit while he is yet "dead in sins" unable to respond to spiritual things. I cannot recall the scripture right now, but it says "only his sheep hear his voice".

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Please explain to me why there are so many gospel preaching denominations that disagree with each other outside of the creeds. Creeds are the beliefs that a Christian must believe. Could it be as the elders back then said that outside of the creeds it was agree to disagree and back then like now there were lots of issues where disagreements occurred?

Can you give me a scripture where it says "they agreed to disagree"? The word CREED is nowhere mentioned in the scriptures. The scriptures must harmonize, otherwise, you do not understand the doctrine that Jesus taught.