Yeah but you don't say why? Just a statement with no supporting points DarthStav..
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Yeah but you don't say why? Just a statement with no supporting points DarthStav..
I don't know, my head hasn't been right since the weekend. I can't seem to figure out what I want to say. It's like I'm detached from my own mind, erh I've been going through alot lately.
While it is true, He loves us and has chosen us, fundamentally, it just isn't so, , He is and always has been the Giver,
And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything.
Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else.
Acts 17:25
And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything.
Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else.
Acts 17:25
A person who can think for themselves would not need to use unproven theological arguments to strengthen their opinion.
Hi, welcome to CC. Glad to have you here.
See you around the forums
Blessings
See you around the forums
Blessings
God doesn't have a face, he is spirit.Hi, welcome to CC. Glad to have you here.
See you around the forums
Blessings
Agreed, but its figurative speech as well.
Not to mention these scriptures......
Exodus 33:11
Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend When Moses returned to the camp, his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, would not depart from the tent.
Deuteronomy 34:10
Since that time no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face
Genesis 32:30
So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, "I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved."
John 1:18 18No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
Look's like we have a contradiction here.
I agree.
I also like to think that “seeing God” is through His creation, eg nature, animals, us.
No (that is spiritualism that has pervaded the churches through Roman Catholicism, and the Jesuit order), the scripture (KJB) says, John 4:24, "God is a spirit..."
Angels are also called "spirits", but they have form, shape, faces, bodies (celestial) (1 Corinthians 15, etc).
Men are also called "spirits" in the Bible (Hebrews 12:23; 1 Peter 3:19).
God the Father has image (Hebrews 1:3), likeness (Genesis 1:26-27), form (Philippians 2:6), shape (John 5:37) a body and an actual face, a head, hair, a mouth, a voice, legs, etc (Daniel 7:9-10) and a real throne He sits on (Revelation 4-5). God is not a perfume, an aetheral essence pervading the universe.
Our (Christians) Father is a real person/being (Hebrews 1:3; Job 13:8) which art in Heaven (Matthew 6:9, 16:17; Luke 11:2).
Read, the Personality of God (about 8 pages) - text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=PERGO&lang=en&collection=15§ion=all&pagenumber=1
Or Read, Heaven, Is It For Real?: https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/29/t/heaven--is-it-for-real-
The KJB, as I have in my hands, is the perfectly preserved words of God (Psalms 12:6-7; Proverbs 30:5; Deuteronomy 8:3; Matthew 4:4; Luke 4:4; Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33 and "cannot be broken" - John 10:35). It is without error in its words as Jesus is, who also is perfectly preserved.
Is it a contradiction? Or is it referring to the special intimacy that the Son has with the Father? Because that's the context of the scripture you're using.
Not at all. You have a misunderstanding about what it says.
“...but surely, as it is written, “No man has seen God...”, Right?”
Here are the texts:
Exodus 33:20 KJB - And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
John 1:18 KJB - No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
1 Timothy 6:16 KJB - Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
1 John 4:12 KJB - No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1 John 4:20 KJB - If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
When considering such texts, the immediate context and the whole King James Bible context should be considered more carefully, for instance:John 1:18 KJB - No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Please notice that John 1:18's KJB reference to “God” is speaking of the person of “the Father”, and yet even so, the text explicitly states that “the only begotten Son” is the person who appeared and “declared” God, the Father, and those who accepted Christ Jesus, have seen the character of God, the Father. John, even repeats this in John 6:46 KJB:
John 6:46 KJB - Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Please notice, that even John 6:46 KJB is not all 'exclusive' of men having seen God, the Father, but explicitly gives the exception [“save he”] by saying, “save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.” All in Christ Jesus, have indeed seen the Father, meaning His character, for Jesus said:
Matthew 11:27 KJB - All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
John 14:7 KJB - If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
John 14:8 KJB - Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9 KJB - Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Hebrews 1:1 KJB - God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hebrews 1:2 KJB - Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Hebrews 1:3 KJB - Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
In Exodus 33:20 KJB, the context reveals that Moses was not allowed to see the “face” of God in the fullness of His Glory, as in Exodus 33:23 KJB, so God hid Moses in the cleft of a rock, and passed by him, placing His hand over him, and Moses saw the back parts of God.
It is those who are not in Christ Jesus that have not seen God, the Father, since they have rejected His character in the person of His Son:
John 5:37 KJB - And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
John 5:43 KJB - I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
3 John 1:11 KJB - Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.
Various persons of the Old Testament [Genesis to Malachi] and of the New Testament [Matthew to Revelation] have seen and heard God, especially the Son, but even a few prophets have seen and heard the Father [in vision], and some have seen and heard the Holy Spirit in various forms:
Having seen, heard and experienced the Father:
Daniel the prophet; Daniel 7:9-10,13:
John the Baptist, and others; Matthew 3:17, 17:5,6; Mark 1:11, 9:7; Luke 3:22, 9:35,36
Stephen; Acts 7:55
Peter, James and John the Apostles; 2 Peter 1:17,18
John the Apostle and prophet; Revelation 4:2,3,4,5,6,7,,8,9,10,11, 5:1,7,13,14
Having seen, heard and experienced the Son:Adam and Eve; Genesis 3:8
Noah and sons; Genesis 6:13,22, 7:1,16, 8;15,16,21, 9:1,8
Abraham; Genesis 17:1,3,22, 18;1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33, 19:12,14,16,24 (Side note: Genesis 19:24 KJB reveals all three persons, “the LORD” the Son standing upon the earth, rains fire [symbolic of the Holy Spirit Himself between the two] from “the LORD”, the Father in Heaven.) Genesis 19:25,27,29; John 8:56,57
Isaac; Genesis 26:24
Jacob/Israel; Genesis 28:13, 32:24,25,26,27,28,29,30, 35:1,2,3,6,7,9,10,11 (Compare, “be fruitful and multiply” with that of commandment unto Abraham.), Genesis 35:12,13,14,15; Hosea 12:3,4,5
Job; Job 38:1 (See also: Job 38:2-41, 39:1-30, 40:1-24, 41:1-34 KJB.); Job 42:1,5,7,8
Moses, the messenger of the LORD, and the elders of Israel; Exodus 3:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,11,12,13,14,15,16,18, 4:1,5,24, 6:1,2,3, 24:9,10,11, 33:9,11,18,19,20,21,22,23, 34:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,28,32,34,35; Numbers 20:16; Deuteronomy 34:10; Acts 7:30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38
Aaron, Moses' brother and Highpriest; Exodus 4:27
Israel, the peoples, heard God's own voice from Heaven;
Exodus 20:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22; Deuteronomy 4:11,12,13
Balaam, the mad prophet; Numbers 22:9,10,12,13,20,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,31,32,33,34,35,38; 2 Peter 2:16
Joshua, the son of Nun; Joshua 5:13,14,15
Compare:
Hebrews 2:10 KJB - For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Gideon, aka Jerubbaal; Judges 6:10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,18,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27
Manoah and his wife, the parents of Samson; Judges 13:2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24
Samuel, the prophet and judge; 1 Samuel 3:10,21
David, the son of Jesse; 2 Samuel 24:16,17; 1 Chronicles 21:15,16,17,18,26,27,28,29,30; 2 Chronicles 3:1
Solomon, the son of David; 1 King 3:5, 9:2, 11:9; 2 Chronicles 7:12
Micaiah the prophet; 1 Kings 22:19,20,21,22,23; 2 Chronicles 18:18,19,20,21,22
Isaiah the prophet; 2 Kings 19:34,35; Isaiah 6:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13; John 12:41
Jeremiah the prophet; Jeremiah 1:4,5,6,7,8,9
Ezekiel the prophet; Ezekiel 1:1,26,27,28, 2:1, 10:1,2,3,4,5,18,19,20
Daniel the prophet; Daniel 7:13
John the Apostle and prophet; Revelation 1:10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18, 5:6
Having seen, heard and experienced the Holy Spirit:
Gideon, aka Jerubbaal; Judges 6:34
Samson; Judges 13:25
John the Baptist; Matthew 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32,33
Jesus; Mark 1:12
Apostles and Disciples; Acts 2:3,4
Philip; Acts 8:29
Peter and others; Acts 10:19, 11:12,15
Paul; Acts 21:4
John the Apostle and prophet; Revelation 5:6, 22:17
The the Bible has no actual power to do anything to you, unless you believe in it. That's it's power.
Not so. The word of God itself, has power, whether we believe in it or not:
Ecc_8:4 Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou?
Isa_55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.