My Best Explanation for the Trinity. Thoughts?

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p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#141
Sep 4, 2013
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#141
Deade said:
It is needed for salvation View attachment 188927
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Is God needed for Salvation?
Is Christ needed for Salvation?
Is the Holy Spirit needed for Salvation?

Christ Himself established the principals of the Holy Trinity, as recorded in the Gospel of John.

I don't spend time trying to convince people of the Truth of the Trinity. The Truth speaks for itself.

Man is a triune being, so why does man find it hard to accept that God is a Triune God? After all...........we are created in His image. Folks who deny the Holy Trinity (in my opinion) are denying the Divinity of Christ, and, doing that, they are denying God Himself.
Each must decide for themselves, and, one day.......soon......all will know the Truth.
 
EmilyFoster

EmilyFoster

Well-known member
#142
Jul 10, 2018
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#142
Thanks for sharing, friend. The term Trinity was employed by the early church fathers as a "shorthand" way of referencing the idea that the Bible portrays God as both Three (trinus) and One (unitas). You might be interested to do some reading on topic such as: bit.ly/2xsrrwc. God bless you!
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#143
#143
p_rehbein said:
My thoughts remain as they have always been:

The Holy Trinity is the Cornerstone of the Christian Faith.

God the Father: God OF man.

God the Son: God AS man.

God the Holy Spirit: God WITHIN man.
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why is it a cornerstone of the faith? is there a passage that says this?
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#144
#144
Deade said:
It is needed for salvation View attachment 188927
Click to expand...
John 20 30-31
30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

this is what the actual scripture says on salvation. there are others as well and they all have one thing in common, there is no mention of a trinity.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#145
Aug 4, 2016
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#145
jaybird88 said:
John 20 30-31
30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

this is what the actual scripture says on salvation. there are others as well and they all have one thing in common, there is no mention of a trinity.
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Come on jaybird, what does that have to do with anything that at John 20:30-31 there is no mention of the Trinity? There's no mention of the Trinity by Thomas at John 20:28 when he declared that Jesus Christ was his "Lord and God." In the Greek Thomas literally said, "The Lord of me and the God of me." Jesus is still the Lord God so again, what is your point? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#146
#146
bluto said:
Come on jaybird, what does that have to do with anything that at John 20:30-31 there is no mention of the Trinity? There's no mention of the Trinity by Thomas at John 20:28 when he declared that Jesus Christ was his "Lord and God." In the Greek Thomas literally said, "The Lord of me and the God of me." Jesus is still the Lord God so again, what is your point? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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it has to do with this statement:
"It is needed for salvation ?"

please show me a passage that says we have to proclaim a trinity nature of the Most High to receive salvation. i will save you some time, it does not exist.

Thomas never said in that passge that Jesus was a three part trinity.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#147
Aug 4, 2016
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#147
jaybird88 said:
it has to do with this statement:
"It is needed for salvation ?"

please show me a passage that says we have to proclaim a trinity nature of the Most High to receive salvation. i will save you some time, it does not exist.

Thomas never said in that passge that Jesus was a three part trinity.
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No jaybird, as usual your wrong. I do not believe Trinitarianism is a REQIREMENT for salvation, it is the RESULT of salvation. Why? Because you cannot know Jesus and somehow miss the fact that he is God. You cannot have experienced the presense of the Holy Spirit of God and somehow miss that He is God. You don't believe me just read Romans 8:9-11.

So to recap! The Trinity is not needed for salvation. What is needed is to believe that Jesus Christ is God just like Thomas declared at John 20:28. That fact will result in knowing the Trinity is a Biblical teaching and true. God the Father is identified as God in the Scriptures, God the Son Jesus Christ is clearly identified as God in the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit is identifed as God in the Scriptures, note Acts 5:4.

Finally, I suggest you take some classes on logic or logical fallacies. This statment of yours, "Thomas never said in that passge that Jesus was a three part trinity." is know as an argument from silence. Just because something is "NOT" said by someone does not mean the statement is false. Think about it? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#148
#148
bluto said:
No jaybird, as usual your wrong. I do not believe Trinitarianism is a REQIREMENT for salvation, it is the RESULT of salvation. Why? Because you cannot know Jesus and somehow miss the fact that he is God. You cannot have experienced the presense of the Holy Spirit of God and somehow miss that He is God. You don't believe me just read Romans 8:9-11.
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so in other words one is not saved unless they proclaim the trinity, no need trying to spin this idea 20 different ways, be a man and say it. so show me in scripture where Jesus teaches this because i have never heard this "salvation by trinity" teaching of Jesus



So to recap! The Trinity is not needed for salvation. What is needed is to believe that Jesus Christ is God just like Thomas declared at John 20:28. That fact will result in knowing the Trinity is a Biblical teaching and true. God the Father is identified as God in the Scriptures, God the Son Jesus Christ is clearly identified as God in the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit is identifed as God in the Scriptures, note Acts 5:4.
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nope, again, your inserting some very ambitious wishful thinking into the passage. Thomas calls Jesus theos, your assuming it to mean Most High, Sameul and angles are called elohim, are they the Most High, of course not.

Finally, I suggest you take some classes on logic or logical fallacies. This statment of yours, "Thomas never said in that passge that Jesus was a three part trinity." is know as an argument from silence. Just because something is "NOT" said by someone does not mean the statement is false. Think about it? :eek:
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again your very confused. your confusing a fact with logical fallacies. when Thomas says "theos" your editing theos with trinity, im stating a fact that Thomas never said trintiy. this is a fact. you can call this every ugly name in the book but it will never change this truth.
and just so you know, i would have to be establishing some kind of pholosophy, doctrine etc on the silence for it to be an actual argument from silence, (example - its ok to be homosexual cause Jesus never mentions homosexuals) which i am not, all i am telling you is that Thomas never made the statement.
lol bless your heart
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#149
Aug 4, 2016
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#149
jaybird88 said:
so in other words one is not saved unless they proclaim the trinity, no need trying to spin this idea 20 different ways, be a man and say it. so show me in scripture where Jesus teaches this because i have never heard this "salvation by trinity" teaching of Jesus




nope, again, your inserting some very ambitious wishful thinking into the passage. Thomas calls Jesus theos, your assuming it to mean Most High, Sameul and angles are called elohim, are they the Most High, of course not.



again your very confused. your confusing a fact with logical fallacies. when Thomas says "theos" your editing theos with trinity, im stating a fact that Thomas never said trintiy. this is a fact. you can call this every ugly name in the book but it will never change this truth.
and just so you know, i would have to be establishing some kind of pholosophy, doctrine etc on the silence for it to be an actual argument from silence, (example - its ok to be homosexual cause Jesus never mentions homosexuals) which i am not, all i am telling you is that Thomas never made the statement.
lol bless your heart
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The following is what Greek Scholar A.T. Robertson stated, "
Verse 28
My Lord and my God (ο κυριος μου και ο τεος μου — Ho kurios mou kai ho theos mou). Not exclamation, but address, the vocative case though the form of the nominative, a very common thing in the Koiné. Thomas was wholly convinced and did not hesitate to address the Risen Christ as Lord and God. And Jesus accepts the words and praises Thomas for so doing."
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#150
Dec 17, 2017
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yeshuaofisrael.org
#150
p_rehbein said:
Is God needed for Salvation?
Is Christ needed for Salvation?
Is the Holy Spirit needed for Salvation?

Christ Himself established the principals of the Holy Trinity, as recorded in the Gospel of John.

I don't spend time trying to convince people of the Truth of the Trinity. The Truth speaks for itself.

Man is a triune being, so why does man find it hard to accept that God is a Triune God? After all...........we are created in His image. Folks who deny the Holy Trinity (in my opinion) are denying the Divinity of Christ, and, doing that, they are denying God Himself.
Each must decide for themselves, and, one day.......soon......all will know the Truth.
Click to expand...
Have I ever denied the divinity of Christ? I would not do such. All I am saying is that your Nicene Creed of defining God is an oversimplification. You got Him all labeled up in a neat little package. Christ is the creator--the Word that was with God--that is God. Is that denying His divinity? This side of glory none of us will understand just what the Holy Spirit is. But know this: it is what makes God--God. blu_icon.png
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#151
Apr 18, 2016
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#151
bluto said:
So to recap! The Trinity is not needed for salvation.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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IMO, you are the one who needs classes on logical fallacies because you claim something and deny it at the same time.

You say God= Trinity
You also say Trinity is not needed for salvation
So, you are simply saying, God is not needed for salvation but rather He is the result of salvation
:eek:
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#152
#152
bluto said:
The following is what Greek Scholar A.T. Robertson stated, "
Verse 28
My Lord and my God (ο κυριος μου και ο τεος μου — Ho kurios mou kai ho theos mou). Not exclamation, but address, the vocative case though the form of the nominative, a very common thing in the Koiné. Thomas was wholly convinced and did not hesitate to address the Risen Christ as Lord and God. And Jesus accepts the words and praises Thomas for so doing."
Click to expand...
I agree Thomas was not making an exclamation, that would be misusing the name, he would know better. like i said to begin with, he called Him theos, just the same as Samuel and angels were called elohim, no one gets confused thinking Samuel was the Most High.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#153
#153
Noose said:
IMO, you are the one who needs classes on logical fallacies because you claim something and deny it at the same time.

You say God= Trinity
You also say Trinity is not needed for salvation
So, you are simply saying, God is not needed for salvation but rather He is the result of salvation
:eek:
Click to expand...
i thought he said trinity was not needed for salvation, but is a result of salvation wich would mean anyone not proclaiming this doctrine does not have salvation, which is just another way of saying no trinity no salvation. kinda like the tongue churches that claim you cant have salvation if you dont babble in the angel language.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#154
Aug 4, 2016
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#154
Noose said:
IMO, you are the one who needs classes on logical fallacies because you claim something and deny it at the same time.

You say God= Trinity
You also say Trinity is not needed for salvation
So, you are simply saying, God is not needed for salvation but rather He is the result of salvation
:eek:
Click to expand...
The word "trinity" is not needed for salvation. Trinity is a word of "convience" to describe how God manifest Himself as three distinct divine persons. In other words, it is a "shorthand" way so referring to the one God as manifesting Himself as three persons. The word "monotheism" is not in the Bible either but we all know that there is only one God.

And "NO" I am not simply saying, "God is not needed for salvation." I'm saying that believing that God is a Trinity of persons is the result of salvation. This is why I quoted Romans 8:11 which of course you did not read. Tell me something noose, how many persons are in view in this verse? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#155
Aug 4, 2016
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#155
jaybird88 said:
I agree Thomas was not making an exclamation, that would be misusing the name, he would know better. like i said to begin with, he called Him theos, just the same as Samuel and angels were called elohim, no one gets confused thinking Samuel was the Most High.
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Well answer me this jaybird? Are Samuel or angels really "true" gods or not? Or at Psalm 82:6, are the men there who are identified as "theous" really true gods? I suggest you read 1 Corinthians 8:5-6. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#156
#156
bluto said:
Well answer me this jaybird? Are Samuel or angels really "true" gods or not? Or at Psalm 82:6, are the men there who are identified as "theous" really true gods? I suggest you read 1 Corinthians 8:5-6. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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every god in the bible that is called god is a true god. i believe every word the bible says.
the "gods" of psalm 82 are true gods, they are not the Most High.
there is only one G-D with a big "G"
 
Epiales

Epiales

Junior Member
#157
Jan 21, 2018
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#157
Geesh everyone!

It's very simple. The belief in the trinity has nothing to do with receiving salvation. I think the thief on the cross proves this. He had no idea of the Holy Spirit or anything when He believed in Christ. I think most believe in deathbed salvation here probably, so one can claim Christ at death and still receive Him, without any knowledge of the trinity.

It's as simple as that. I think what I am hearing from others, in which I would say this. If you are claiming to be a child of God and are vehemently preaching AGAINST the trinity, then I would have to wonder. I do not think there is an issue of a child of God that might not understand the trinity, like the thief, but for someone to live after salvation and then preach utterly against it; THAT would be an issue with me. Understanding the trinity won't get you saved, but if you are saved, there should come a point in your life that God reveals Himself as to who He is; does this save you? No!

It's not difficult! If a Christian doesn't understand, fine, but if they are preaching against... there's a problem.

Just my two cents!!!
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

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#158
The thief on the cross didn't know anything about Creation vs. Evolution, and he had no idea of water baptism for the remission of sins . . . all He knew was He trusted the man on the middle cross and met up with Him again in paradise.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#160
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
...all He knew was He trusted the man on the middle cross and met up with Him again in paradise.
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When you analyze the words of this repentant thief (malefactor) you will find that he actually had amazing theological insight. More than most Christians give him credit for.

We do not know if this man was among the crowds which gathered around Christ all the time to see Him and hear Him. We do not know if this man had studied the Torah. But we should take note of his words while he hung on the Cross:

HE UNDERSTOOD THE MEANING OF BLASPHEMY
But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, ...

HE UNDERSTOOD THAT THE PUNISHMENT FOR SINS (CRIMES) IS DEATH
...seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

HE UNDERSTOOD THE MEANING OF JUSTICE
And we indeed justly;...

HE UNDERSTOOD THE MEANING OF SOWING AND REAPING
...for we receive the due reward of our deeds: ...

HE RECOGNIZED THE SINLESSNESS OF THE SAVIOR
...but this man hath done nothing amiss.

HE CALLED JESUS "LORD"
And he said unto Jesus, Lord,...

HE TOTALLY BELIEVED THAT CHRIST WAS KING AND WOULD RECEIVE HIS KINGDOM
...remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
 
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