adoption by God

[Deade]

God's adoption of his children is done in the same manner as we adopt children today. First process is to select the child, as God did in selecting his elect children in Eph 1:4. Second process is to pay the price for the adoption of God's elect, which Christ did on the cross, in John6:39. Third process is when the child is taken home, as Jesus will do when he comes back to gather together God's elect and take them home.

You pretty much laid it all out here. It is okay to call ourselves saved but we realize there is a finishing component to take place, our immortality. God calls the future, and so should we. That is how He can call things that are not as though they were. If we have the Holy Spirit we will not seek to live in sin, and the fruits of the spirit will show in our lives. It all still rests on faith that God will perform His finishing task, at the resurrection.

 

[luigi]

It also says we will be like Him WHEN He appears. Again, this is speaking of our bodies . . . NOW are we saved (the sons of God) LATER we will be glorified.

Presently, our bodies are not saved. They will suffer corruption. But we have a new body in the new heaven and the new earth.

If we are saved by Christ, what is it we are saved from?
Are we not saved from carrying out our carnal inclinations which lead to death, and to which we were previously enslaved?
If, however, one chooses not to leave their carnal inclinations, then the Lord is of no salvation benefit to them.
It is to them who overcome their carnal inclinations to whom the adoption is awarded.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[Nehemiah6]

In Romans 8:23 Paul describes how the Christian body (the church in whole) was awaiting adoption by the Lord to be called the children of God. As such, how is it that today most Christian ministries believe and preach that once we accept Jesus as Lord, we are then instantly Gods children?

That is because the New Birth -- being born again -- is a result of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:11-13)
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-1-11/
He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Adoption in Scripture is not the same as adoption in human terms, where children who are from other parents are adopted into a family with no blood relationship.

Adoption according to Scripture means those who are children of God are given all the rights and privileges of HEIRS. Normally the eldest son was the heir, but in God's family every child of God is an heir of God, and a joint-heir with Christ, and receives an eternal heavenly inheritance purely by God's grace.

Strong's Concordance
huiothesia: adoption
Original Word: υἱοθεσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: huiothesia
Phonetic Spelling: (hwee-oth-es-ee'-ah)
Definition: adoption
Usage: adoption, as a son into the divine family.

Vine's Expository Dictionary
...God does not "adopt" believers as children; they are begotten as such by His Holy Spirit through faith. "Adoption" is a term involving the dignity of the relationship of believers as sons; it is not a putting into the family by spiritual birth, but a putting into the position of sons...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Adoption in Scripture is not the same as adoption in human terms, where children who are from other parents are adopted into a family with no blood relationship.
Adoption according to Scripture means those who are children of God are given all the rights and privileges of HEIRS.
[…]
Vine's Expository Dictionary
...God does not "adopt" believers as children; they are begotten as such by His Holy Spirit through faith. "Adoption" is a term involving the dignity of the relationship of believers as sons; it is not a putting into the family by spiritual birth, but a putting into the position of sons...

Pretty much agreed!

["son-placement"]

 

[Locutus]

(Rom 8:19 KJV) For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

This and Paul's following arguments in regards to redemption etc. I believe have been totally misunderstood in futurist "theologies".

In the 1st century during the proclamation of the gospel there was a battle between the apostate Israelites claiming to be the sons of God and the true sons of God in Christ through faith in Him.

When the temple and Jerusalem was destroyed and the apostates cast out (Gal 4:30) the true sons of God were THEN manifested.

(Rom 8:23 KJV) And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

This was the time of redemption of the collective body of Christ:

(Luke 21:20 KJV) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

(Luke 21:28 KJV) And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

The gospel according to Luke states the redemption drew nigh when Jerusalem was compassed with armies in the war of 66-70AD

 

[luigi]

That is because the New Birth -- being born again -- is a result of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:11-13)
He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Adoption in Scripture is not the same as adoption in human terms, where children who are from other parents are adopted into a family with no blood relationship.

Adoption according to Scripture means those who are children of God are given all the rights and privileges of HEIRS. Normally the eldest son was the heir, but in God's family every child of God is an heir of God, and a joint-heir with Christ, and receives an eternal heavenly inheritance purely by God's grace.

Strong's Concordance
huiothesia: adoption
Original Word: υἱοθεσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: huiothesia
Phonetic Spelling: (hwee-oth-es-ee'-ah)
Definition: adoption
Usage: adoption, as a son into the divine family.

Vine's Expository Dictionary
...God does not "adopt" believers as children; they are begotten as such by His Holy Spirit through faith. "Adoption" is a term involving the dignity of the relationship of believers as sons; it is not a putting into the family by spiritual birth, but a putting into the position of sons...

If you are born again as you claim, you then do not sin according to 1 John 3:9.
You are a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17).
I, however, recognize that I have yet to cease from all sin, and as such earnestly await adoption into Gods family as I continue to overcome my carnal instincts.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[luigi]

(Rom 8:19 KJV) For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

This and Paul's following arguments in regards to redemption etc. I believe have been totally misunderstood in futurist "theologies".

In the 1st century during the proclamation of the gospel there was a battle between the apostate Israelites claiming to be the sons of God and the true sons of God in Christ through faith in Him.

When the temple and Jerusalem was destroyed and the apostates cast out (Gal 4:30) the true sons of God were THEN manifested.

(Rom 8:23 KJV) And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

This was the time of redemption of the collective body of Christ:

(Luke 21:20 KJV) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

(Luke 21:28 KJV) And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

The gospel according to Luke states the redemption drew nigh when Jerusalem was compassed with armies in the war of 66-70AD

Your claiming Romans 8 as Paul's way to describe the situation between the Jews in Judea and Christians, takes God out of the picture and makes this a contemporary story only applicable to Paul's time.
I on the other hand believe Romans 8 to be Gods Word, and applicable to all generations until the Lords return.

 

[Locutus]

Believe what you like Louie.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I, however, recognize that I have yet to cease from all sin, and as such earnestly await adoption into Gods family as I continue to overcome my carnal instincts.

Take some time to get a grip on what the New Birth means and what Adoption means. Study the Word.

 

[Locutus]

Get a grip

 

[LPT]

Get a grip View attachment 189119

Quite easy to spot sarcasm surely someone born again would at least try from time to time to harness such pride.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

This and Paul's following arguments in regards to redemption etc. I believe have been totally misunderstood in futurist "theologies".
[…]
This was the time of redemption of the collective body of Christ:

(Luke 21:20 KJV) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

(Luke 21:28 KJV) And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

The gospel according to Luke states the redemption drew nigh when Jerusalem was compassed with armies in the war of 66-70AD

I believe the "chronology" aspect has been misunderstood by all BUT the "futurist" viewpoints.

I believe Lk21:12-24a [b follows on from there] is the only part of the entire Olivet Discourse to be referring to the 70ad events (and basically states, "BUT BEFORE all these [BEFORE all "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS [PLURAL]," before THAT, the 70ad events must take place.)

Verses 8-11 DESCRIBE what the parallels (Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8) NAMED "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" (and I believe these parallel the SEALS of Rev6). 1Th5:2-3 tells of the ARRIVAL of the DOTL time period (which unfolds upon the earth), and makes reference then to the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" AT THAT TIME [its START] (of many more to follow on from there), and in 2Th2, Paul says that is not yet "PRESENT" (and explains WHY and what ONE THING must take place "FIRST" and which is distinct from "the man of sin" be revealed).

...and then Matt22:7-8 also give this SAME SEQUENCE, where also Rev1:1 states "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"... [Rev7:3 "servants of our God" (re: the 144,000), etc...]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ the SEQUENCE / CHRONOLOGY:

1) the 70ad events (Lk21:12-24a, with part b following on from there)

2) the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (1Th5:2-3; at the START/ARRIVAL of the DOTL time period [always and ever "on the earth"], with many more "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" to follow on from there; equivalent to the FIRST SEAL [SINGULAR]; the "man of sin be revealed" at the START of the trib; THIS is YET FUTURE and is the specific time period leading UP TO His Second Coming to the earth [not our Rapture], per CONTEXT)

3) the rest of "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" (per Jesus' Olivet Discourse: Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11)

4) then everything else He said in the Olivet Discourse follows on from "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]"

 

[Dino246]

I have taken the liberty of copying your previous post in highlight.

Dino: Verses 14-17 declare clearly that we are "already" God's children. Verses 18-25 are about the resurrection, the hope we hold that this life is not all there is. So the adoption that Paul refers to in verse 23 is not adoption to becoming God's children, but to our immortal bodies.

According your perspective, the Lords Word through Paul is that these are two different subjects; the first adopted and complete, and the second awaiting adoption and incomplete being in regards to our immortal bodies?

Are you making this stuff up to support an OSAS perspective?

Where does the Lord's Word differentiate between these two hypothetical entities in one?

What the Lords Word does differentiate is between they who will overcome their fleshly desires, and thus will be His children, who will be adopted and manifested as Gods children in the end; and the second group who will live for their flesh, and will die, and will not be among the adopted children of God.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

You may dispense with the OSAS line; I have made no assertion on that matter.

I see two related but distinct concepts being discussed, as I stated. If you don't, that's fine, but that doesn't make me wrong.

 

[Locutus]

Here we have the "sons" that would be manifested when the anti-sons would be cast out in the 1st century AD:

(Gal 4:29 KJV) But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

(Gal 4:30 KJV) Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman.

(Gal 4:31 KJV) So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

We know the true sons™® were being persecuted by the apostate Jews who were claiming they were the sons of the kingdom yet Paul states they would be cast out.

History tells us this happened.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Locutus, do you believe the following passage (and its parallel/s) was fulfilled in the first century? :

Matthew 8 -

"11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down [G347] with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of the heavens.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."



[G347 - anaklithēsontai - shall sit down (around a table / at a meal) ]


[quoting from Bible Hub]

"of those reclining at table and at feasts, Luke 7:30 (R G); ; Matthew 8:11 — in the last two passages used figuratively of participation in future blessedness in the Messiah's kingdom."

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ ...not sure if that Luke reference was meant to say, "Luke 12:37 [or] Luke 13:29" perhaps... (where G347 is also used... but not in Luke 7:30 )

 

[Locutus]

^ Locutus, do you believe the following passage (and its parallel/s) was fulfilled in the first century? :

Matthew 8 -"11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down [G347] with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of the heavens.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Ask yerself this - are there two "castings out", one in the 1st century and one yet to be?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Ask yerself this - are there two "castings out", one in the 1st century and one yet to be?

Well, you may recall that I said that Luke 21:24 is part of the 70ad passage (vv.12-24a, with b following on from there); and that Matt22:7-8's SEQUENCE has v.7 showing the 70ad events ("But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth [see Lk21:23 ^ "wrath upon this people"]: and sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city"), and then verse 8 showing "THEN SAITH HE to His servants..." (i.e. "THEN SAITH HE" AFTER the 70ad events... so what did He "say" AFTER the 70ad events...pertaining to INVITATION to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [i.e. the Revelation, 95ad writings, which lead up to and point to the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom ("the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" / "the meal" / the "shall sit down [G347]" / etc [all earthly-located])]); see also Luke 19:41-44 (spoken on the very day Jesus rode into Jerusalem on colt, Palm Sunday / fulfillment of the 69 Weeks. And also Rom9:26/Hos1:10 re: Israel (distinct from Rom9:25/Hos2:23b re: the Gentiles), meaning, well, meaning that Romans 9:26/Hosea 1:10 speaks to Israel's future, just as Hosea 5:15-6:3 does, and Romans 11:15 and vv.25-28 do. [and many more...]

Too late at night to go into all this again... but basically just "blindness... UNTIL" [re: Israel] (that is, "until" a specific thing comes to its ultimate purpose/finishing).

 

[luigi]

Take some time to get a grip on what the New Birth means and what Adoption means. Study the Word.

I do study the Word.

Here we have the "sons" that would be manifested when the anti-sons would be cast out in the 1st century AD:

(Gal 4:29 KJV) But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

(Gal 4:30 KJV) Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman.

(Gal 4:31 KJV) So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

We know the true sons™® were being persecuted by the apostate Jews who were claiming they were the sons of the kingdom yet Paul states they would be cast out.

History tells us this happened.

At first the newly faithful in Christ Jews were being persecuted by their unbelieving brethren, that is until the unbelieving decided to exile the faithful from Jerusalem (Acts 8:1).
Persecution of the faithful after this time (circa 40 AD), would come from gentile unbelievers in whatever parts the faithful were scattered to.

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.