Are You Believing a Heresy? You Might According to a New Study

Lillywolf · Oct 19, 2018

I would not concur with the "most often" observation.
God knows his sons and daughters. We mere mortals have but to ascertain with our God-given wisdom who are in the faith and who act as if they have none while proclaiming the faith. The most glaring example being public figures. Diamond studded crosses. Really?

PyongPing · Oct 19, 2018

Dino246 said:

I know you do not have understanding of Mark 9, and I mean this in no derogatory way. I will then demonstrate that since you refused to answer a simple question of Yes/No, in regards to studying in detail, and do this without you, though I desired to do this with you. It was an offer to come close that we may have the same understanding. So be it.

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 19, 2018

Revelation 20:10 [ylt] -

"and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages."

[the phrase "the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" elsewhere refers to forever/eternity/etc, such as in Gal1:5 and Phil4:20 and 1Pet4:11 and Rev1:6, 18, 4:9-10, 5:13-14, 7:12, 10:6, 11:15, 15:7, etc...]

I'm going to guess that you (PyongPing) do not believe "the beast" and "the false prophet" are humans, is that right?

PyongPing · Oct 19, 2018

TheDivineWatermark said:

"forever and ever" (αιωνας των αιωνων) is always subject to context, and can mean "eternal" (in proper context), but also a 'duration of time' (as you yourself have cited, 'ages to ages', which means from a point of time to a point of time), or even refer to distance (in proper context, see Jonah)

Galatians 1:9, Philippians 4:20; 1 Peter 4:11; Revelation 1:6, 4:9-10, 5:13-14, 7:12, 10:6, 11:15, 15:7 refers to glory being given to God (who is eternal), to God (the Father) and to Jesus Christ and the redeemed righteous.

The wicked aren't eternal, neither are they God, neither are they rewarded with immortality as the righteou are. That is an incorrect application of those tests to Revelation 20:10, which is speaking about satan and the finally impentient. The text also does not teach 'eternal torment'. Evil is to cease, not be prolonged into eternity, in any location:

"... there was found no place for them." - Revelation 20:11

"... that no place was found for them" - Daniel 2:35

Rev_21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 20 even shows where the wicked are when they are destroyed, on earth, which is where God remakes the New Heaven and Earth. The wicked will not continue into that re-make. They will be reduced to ashes, including satan himself.

Here is the end of the wicked in Revelation 20:

Eze_28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Mal_4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Psa_7:9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

Eze_21:29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end.

Eze_28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Revelation 20:10, in context, reveals that satan will burn day and night continuously without reprieve until he is consumed, as the fire will not be quenched (forcibly put out by anyone).

Allow me to show you in detail.

pottersclay · Oct 19, 2018

BaptistBibleBeliever said:

Christian 'culture' occurs when the Catholic church goes into animistic countries and creates a perversion based on part heathenistic practice part Catholic dogma so that they end up creating a bastardized form of 'religious heresy'. It's been a while since I had my cultural anthropology class so I forget what the word is for this practice.

In essence, the Jesuits set up shop in Africa and incorporate the things that the natives already believe in, irregardless of how demonic it is in practice . . . then they add three Our Fathers and three Hail Mary's, a few statues and some eucharistic silliness and viola! a new religion all together, but it still calls itself Christianity.

Hey Baptist you have to see what's happening in Brazil recently.....I think you would like😁

BaptistBibleBeliever · Oct 19, 2018

What is happening in Brazil?

pottersclay · Oct 19, 2018

In most cases I think it's because very few teach out of the old testament. The old has many metaphors that shows God's nature and tolerance . Most teach today on a fuzzy wuzzy Jesus level causing a lot of so called Christian's to take advantage of God's grace. As if that could be done.
Truth of the matter is that Jesus did come once as a lamb what they fail to teach he returns as a lion.
If the father did not spare his own son who are we that he might give exceptions?

pottersclay · Oct 19, 2018

BaptistBibleBeliever said:

The Catholic dominant faith is being over ruled by evangelicals even in the elections of there officials. A Reformation has started....God is moving😁😁😁

Crustyone · Oct 19, 2018

To reply to the original post, I feel that I understand the bible and God very well. I think of God often, almost always pray my morning prayer every day and say little prayers occasionally during the day. I am also well aware of the suffering that God's son took upon himself for our sins. As far as religions go a lot of them do go their own way and do not follow the bible as they should, but even so many in their fold will be saved because of what is in their hearts.

PyongPing · Oct 19, 2018

TheDivineWatermark said:

Revelation 20:10 in more detail:

Heaven is eternal, no doubt, for God Himself is Eternal Life, and the redeemed will be indwelt by God throughout eternity, but the wicked are not so indwelt, but are found to be outside of God, rather than abiding in God. And since they are found outside of God, they are found outside of eternal life.

How then are the wicked to have eternal existence?

As shown, the words, of Revelation 20:10, "even for ever and ever", are Koine Greek, "εις τους αιωνας των αιωνων", which when seen in their context, locally and globally through the scripture [KJB], do not always mean eternal, but can mean limited in time, and can even deal with distance, or even spacial ["world"].

Can an "αιων" [aiwn, aeon, in either time, distance or space] come to an end? Yes, even as Paul shows in Hebrews:

Hebrew 9:26 KJB - For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hebrew 9:26 KJB - επει εδει αυτον πολλακις παθειν απο καταβολης κοσμου νυν δε απαξ επι συντελεια των αιωνων εις αθετησιν αμαρτιας δια της θυσιας αυτου πεφανερωται

Notice, "end of the world [aeon]". Notice again:

Titus 2:12 KJB - Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Titus 2:12 KJB - παιδευουσα ημας ινα αρνησαμενοι την ασεβειαν και τας κοσμικας επιθυμιας σωφρονως και δικαιως και ευσεβως ζησωμεν εν τω νυν αιωνι

Notice, "in this present world [aeon]", which indicates that there is an end to the current "world", or existence, and another "world" [aeon], or existence, to follow after it. Thus and "aeon" can come to an end, and is not necessarily eternal. See also "since the world began", "before this world", "this present evil world", "this world", in Matthew 12:32, Matthew 13:22, Matthew 13:39-40 (2), Matthew 13:49, Matthew 24:3, Matthew 28:20, Mark 4:19, Mark 10:30, Luke 1:70, Luke 16:8, Luke 18:30, Luke 20:34-35 (2), John 9:32, Acts 3:21, Acts 15:18, Romans 12:2, 1 Corinthians 1:20, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 (4), 1 Corinthians 3:18, 1 Corinthians 8:13, 1 Corinthians 10:11, 2 Corinthians 4:4, Galatians 1:4, Ephesians 1:21, Ephesians 3:9, Ephesians 3:21, Ephesians 6:12, 1 Timothy 6:17, 2 Timothy 4:10, Tit 2:12, Hebrews 6:5, Hebrews 9:26; and etc. We now see that "aeon's" can begin, and end, and are not always ongoing without ceasing, and thus context always determines the length, distance, existence, etc.

Notice how the Bible uses the word "for ever":

Jonah 2:6 KJB - I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

Jonah 2:6 (2:7) (so-called) LXX - κατέβην εἰς γῆν, ἧς οἱ μοχλοὶ αὐτῆς κάτοχοι αἰώνιοι, καὶ ἀναβήτω φθορὰ ζωῆς μου, κύριε ὁ θεός μου.

In both distance and time, it is impossible for the word "for ever" in Jonah to be eternal, or without end. Not only does earth have limited space [thus "ends of the earth", dry land is earth, see Genesis 1], but Jonah was only 3 days and 3 nights, timewise, in the belly:

Jonah 1:17 KJB - Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Therefore, in either case, "for ever" is limited, in this instance, in distance and time.

In Deuteronomy 23:3 KJB, “forever” means 10 generations. It can also mean “as long as he lives,” or “to death.”; thus see 1 Samuel 1:22, 28; Exodus 21:6; Psalm 48:14 KJB.

The redeemed will have eternal life, because Jesus is eternal life, but the wicked will never have eternal existence:

Psalms 21:4 KJB - He asked life of thee, and thou gavest it him, even length of days for ever and ever.

Ecclesiastes 8:13 KJB - But it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days, which are as a shadow; because he feareth not before God.

Iniquity must be purged and cleansed from the universe, and it will not happen until the wicked cease to be:

Isaiah 22:14 KJB - And it was revealed in mine ears by the LORD of hosts, Surely this iniquity shall not be purged from you till ye die, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.

Psalms 37:10 KJB - For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

When will these verses be fulfilled in your understanding:

Malachi 4:1 KJB - For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Malachi 4:3 KJB - And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

PyongPing · Oct 19, 2018

TheDivineWatermark said:

The example of the burning bush, is the perfect example of Christ Jesus in us [the redeemed] in type. It is not an example of how the wicked will be, since Christ Jesus is not in them:

Penitently redeemed:

John 14:20 KJB - At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

John 15:4 KJB Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Exodus 3:2 KJB - And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Stubbornly wicked:

John 5:38 KJB - And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

John 8:37 KJB - I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

John 5:42 KJB - But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

Exodus 33:5 KJB - For the LORD had said unto Moses, Say unto the children of Israel, Ye are a stiffnecked people: I will come up into the midst of thee in a moment, and consume thee: therefore now put off thy ornaments from thee, that I may know what to do unto thee.

The teaching of "eternal torment' actually blasphemes God's very name and character, because it makes God unjust, cruel and sustain sin and wicked forever by a miracle Think carefully about it, please.

Notice the contrast between Exodus 3:2, with Christ Jesus in the midst of the bush, and the bush was "not consumed", and then see Exodus 33:5, wherein the peoples did not have Christ Jesus abiding within, and were about to be totally "consumed".

Did the global flood of Noah kill all of the finally impentient outside of the Ark in one single instant of time?, or was there not rather various lengths of time, and degrees of injuries sustained throughout, that people continued to receive and live through, until all were finally destroyed from the face of the earth? with some instantly perishing, and others taking days to finally die either by beast, other men attempting to esacpe their doom fighting for the highest ground, starvation, thirst, hurling and heaving earth, or finally drown beneath the black depths ...

In 2 Peter 2:5 [see also 2 Peter 3:6] KJB, Peter says "flood upon the world", yet in the Koine Greek, it is "κατακλυσμον κοσμω", a 'cosmic cataclysm'. Such devastation and destruction as has never been known, and will never again be known [by water], but will again be by fire. If one were to read Genesis 7-8 KJB carefully they will see that it took some time for all [human-kind] outside of the ark to finally perish, and not all perished at the same time. The wages for sin is death, even from Genesis 2:17 KJB, but the final punishment, being death, is preceded by terrors, anguish, torment, all limited and depending upon the deeds done in the body [Romans 2:6; jude 1:15 KJB], as it is written.

So to die of thirst in such a cataclysm takes several days, while being crushed by a large piece of exploded land, or tree, or debris is near instantaneous, slowly drowning, dying of starvation, etc. Each is just. Each received the length of time in torment, suffering, that was due, and both received the final end, death. As it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be ...

The "punishment" (not "punishing") is indeed "eternal". For the "wages of sin is death", that being the "second death". Thje fire is very real, and burns "up" the wicked completely unto "smoke" and "ashes", so that they are not any "more", having "no place" in God's creation ever again.

The "torment", or the "suffering" unto that death, is limited. The suffering or torment is not eternal, as I may be shown in the case of Jesus Christ, who took upon Himself the sins of the whole world. His suffering though tremendous, more than any other could endure [for just our own sins would crush us], and yet, it was limited. Hence the phrase, "once suffered", meaning it is in the past, and is over and done with, thus it was limited in time.

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 19, 2018

PyongPing said:

I've posted this a couple of times recently (even once today); I wonder where in this sequence (of the following passage) you place the above (from your quote ^ ):

[quoting my earlier post from a different thread / convo, but pertinent here for my question]

Did you see the post (or posts) where I've shown the parallel between:

--Revelation 19:19 / 16:14-16

[and]

--Isaiah 24:21-22[23], which states, "21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited/punished." [in Amill-teaching, there IS NO "[after] many days" at this point in the chronology, i.e. His Second Coming to the earth; however, both Isa24:21-22 states that there is, as well as Rev19-20, and other passages such as Lk19:12,15,17,19 and Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 and all of the parallels to these…]

[end of quoting my post]

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 19, 2018

^ ...and by the way, since you mention "sins"

I see a distinction in Scripture between "sinS" (Romans 1-5:12) and "Sin" (Romans 5:12-chpt 8 end).

"sinS" are forgiven... "Sin" is never forgiven but "condemned... in the flesh"

[in what you have written, you do not seem to acknowledge this distinction]

PyongPing · Oct 19, 2018

TheDivineWatermark said:

Here, please read:

Isaiah 24 and Revelation 19-22 parallelism (short notes):

World Destroyed - Isaiah 24:1-20
High Ones on High - Isaiah 24:21
Kings of the Earth - Isaiah 24:21
Prisonsers in the Pit - Isaiah 24:22
Many Days - Isaiah 24:22
New Jeruslam/Zion - Isaiah 24:23
Reign Gloriously - Isaiah 24:23
Sun and Moon Ashamed - Isaiah 24:23
Remnant - Isaiah 4:3
Ancients - Isaiah 24:23

World Destroyed - Revelation 19:11-21; 16:18-21
Satan - Revelation 20:1-2
Kings - Revelation 19:19
Prison/Pit - Revelation 20:1-2
The Thousand Years - Revelation 20:1,2,3,4,5,6,7
New Jerusalem/Zion - Revelation 21:2
King of Kings - Revelation 19:11,16
No Need of Sun or Moon - Revelation 21:23
Remnant - Revelation 22:14
Heavenly Elders Council - Job 1-2; Revelation 4:4,10, 5:5,6,8,11,14, 7:11,13, 11:16,14:3, 19:4

It also parallels to Psalms 37.

Armageddon, the gathering to war against the Lamb (and his body) - Psalms 37:14,12,35
The Day of the LORD, the final thousand years, beginning, middle and ending - Psalms 37:13
Final Destruction of the Wicked - Psalms 37:1,2,9a,10,20,22b,28b,34b,36,38
Heavens & Earth Made New, saints reign upon the earth made new, forever - Psalms 37:3,9b,11,18,22a,28b,29,34a,37

It is dealing with normal earth time between the 2nd (John 14:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, etc) and 3rd Advents (Zechariah 14:1~; Revelation 20:7-11~) of Jesus Christ, known as "the Day of the LORD" (Isaiah 2:12, 13:6,9, 34:8; Jeremiah 46:10; Lamentations 2:22; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31, 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 1:15; Zephaniah 1:7,8,14,18, 2:2,3; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi 4:5; Acts 2:20; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Corinthians 1:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Peter 3:10 -- 2 Peter 3:10, tied in context to 2 Peter 3:8, which is citing Psalms 90:4) or "the last day" (John 6:39,40,44,54, 11:24, 12:48) throughout scripture, and ties into 2 Peter 3:8; Psalms 90:4; Hosea 6:2; Ecclesiastes 6:6; John 11:6.

The location of this “reign” of Jesus and the saints, for “a thousand years” is never said to be on the plague wracked, utterly sin polluted and totally cursed and devastated “earth”, wherein even the upper heaven [atmosphere] is burned away by the second Advent [Genesis 3:17, 5:29, 8:21; Isaiah 34:4; 2 Peter 3:10-12; Revelation 6:14; 11:19, 15:1,6,8, 16:9,17-21, 18:4,8 21:9, 22:18 KJB]. So likewise for the passages of “Isaiah 2, 11, 65; Amos 9; Zechariah 14”. Read prayerfully and carefully for oneself. Where then is the “thousand year” reign of Jesus and the saints to be? It is to be in Heaven, the “third” [2 Corinthians 12:2 KJB].

The “reign upon the earth” comes after 1,000 years [Revelation 20:2,3,4,5,6,7 KJB], for the “saints” must be both resurrected and/or translated, glorified, and brought back to Heaven [John 14:1-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17, etc KJB] at the Second Advent and First Great Resurrection, to “reign” in Heaven, for 1,000 years [Revelation 20:4,5a,6 KJB] going over the record books of the lost [1 Corinthians 6:2,3 KJB]:

[1] The “thousand years” reign “in Heaven” [Psalms 50:5; Matthew 5:3,8,10,12, 6:20, 13:30, 24:31; Mark 10:21, 13:27; Luke 6:23, 18:22, 23:43; John 14:2-3, 17:24; Colossians 1:5; Hebrews 10:34; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 7:9, 14:3, 19:1 KJB; “Paradise”, Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7 KJB] with Christ Jesus [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 20:6 KJB] and

[2] The “reign on earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth; 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; Revelation 21:1 KJB] that lasts “forever and ever” [Revelation 5:10 KJB; “meek inherit earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth], Psalms 37:9,11,34; Proverbs 11:31; Isaiah 25:8, 65:21; Daniel 7:27; Matthew 5:5; Revelation 5:10 KJB].

As for the word "bottomless pit", as found in the GNT TR of Revelation 9:1,2,11, 11:7, 17:8, 20:1, it is the Koine Greek "αβυσσου" [abussou, or abyssou], in GNT TR of Revelation 20:3, it is again "αβυσσον" [abusson, or abysson], which in the transliterated English is the word "abyss", which according to the first use in Genesis, means the "deep", being in "darkness", and "without form and void [empty of/having no life]", thus is associated with a dark chaotic wilderness/desert [water or earth], symbolic of death/no life (see Revelation 9:1,2,11, 17:8, 20:1,3; Luke 8:31; Romans 10:7. See also the so-called LXX uses in (LXX) Genesis 1:2, 7:11, 8:2; Deuteronomy 8:7, 33:13; Job 38:16,30, 41:32 (41:24); Psalms 33:7 (32:7), 71:20 (70:20), 71:21 (70:21), 78:15 (77:15), 106:9 (105:9), 107:26 (106:26), 135:6 (134:6); Proverbs 8:24; Isaiah 44:27, 51:10, 63:13; and in the apocryphal books/texts of (LXX) Daniel 3:54; Wisdom 10:19; Sirach 24:5,29.), as per:

Jeremiah 4:23-28, 25:15-38; Zephaniah 1:2-3,14-18; Isaiah 2:6-22, 11:4, 24:1-6,17-22, 34:1-17 and in Psalms 37:13 already mentioned above and in Psalms 149:8 (and surrounding context).

If one were to consider the so-called 'ECF' - Ante-Nicene 'fathers' and many many others, the 7,000 year old earth, based on 7 days of Genesis & Psa. 90:4; 2 Pet. 3:8, and may be downloaded for free here - Link to 7,000 Years & 7 Days of Creation

The 1,000 years 'sealing' away of Satan on the desolate earth (for he is bound by 'chain' of circumstance (Psalms 73:6; Lamentations 3:7), since the devil can easily break physical chains (Mark 5:4), is also tied directly to the '7 seals' by language, as see here: Daniel & Revelation Structure - Psalms 77:13

Revelation 20:4, is directly tied to Daniel 7:22 (in its 4 "time" portions), by language (Revelation 20:4 "judgment was given unto them", Daniel 7:22 "judgment was given to the saints of the most High", which again ties into Psalms 149).

Revelation 20, is also directly ties to Revelation 9, 11, & 17, by language, speaking of the "the bottomless pit" "key" (9 & 20), "the king" (9), "beast" (11 & 17), and "dragon" (20).

Revelation 20, is also tied directly to Leviticus 16 & 23 by event:

Leviticus 16:8,10,20 -- Revelation 20:1
Leviticus 16:21-22 -- Revelation 20:2-3

PyongPing · Oct 19, 2018

TheDivineWatermark said:

Again:

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There are two great (and one special before the first, after probation closes) resurrections, 1,000 years apart (roughly).

Special Resurrection to come, before the Great First Resurrection - Daniel 12:2,12; Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:62; Revelation 1:7, 14:13, &c;

First great resurrection of the saints, just, life, before/at start of the 1000 years when Christ Jesus returns in Power and Glory, raised - 1 Samuel 2:6; Job 14:12-14, 19:26; Hosea 13:14; Matthew 22:31; Mark 12:18,23,25; Luke 14:14, 20:35,36; John 5:29a, 6:25,28,29,39,40,44,54, 11:24,25; Acts 4:2, 17:31,32, 23:6, 24:15a,21; Romans 6:5,8, 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:12,13,16,20,21,23,29,32,35,42,43,52-55; Philippians 3:10,11; Colossians 3:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Timothy 2:18, 4:1; Hebrews 6:2, 11:35; Revelation 20:5b,6; -- All the Holy "Clouds" of Angels, the "reapers", with Him -- Psalms 68:17, 104:3; Isaiah 66:15; Matthew 13:39,49, 16:27, 24:30, 25:31,51, 26:64; Mark 8:38, 13:27; Luke 9:26, 21:27; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 4:16-17; Hebrews 1:7; Revelation 1:7, 12:7;

The Second Great Resurrection of the wicked, unjust, damnation, at the end/close of the 1000 years, when Christ Jesus and all of the Saints, then immortal, descend to Earth in New Jerusalem upon the Mount of Olives, and the Great White Throne Judgment takes place; Zechariah 14; Revelation 20; -- John 5:29b; Acts 17:31, 24:15b; Revelation 20:5a;

The words "the hour is", refers to the 'time' or 'moment' of each of those respective resurrections. It is like me saying, "the hour comes when I will have to leave, and you will have to leave'. See Luke 2:38, Mark 6:35; John 5:34-35; 2 Corinthians 7:8; Philemon 1:15 and Matthew 14:15,18:1; Mark 6:35; Luke 1:10, 14:17; John 16:2,4,25; Romans 13:11; 1 John 2:18 (2); Revelation 14:15, etc. or see Revelation 14:6, "the hour of his judgment is come", which means the time, moment, etc, which is already on going even now.

PyongPing · Oct 19, 2018

TheDivineWatermark said:

Gen_50:17 So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 19, 2018

Okay, I can see that PART of our differences is that I see "the Day of the Lord" to be commencing at the START of the [INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]" (MANY MORE "PANGS [PLURAL]" follow on from that point)] 7-yr tribulation period, when Jesus Himself will indeed "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, Rev4-5--opening of the first SEAL], and "the Church which is His body" is also "caught up/raptured" (BEFORE this point) for a specific purpose [ONE of which is that "we shall JUDGE ANGELS"(1Cor6:3,14)--so I see the "24 elders" sitting on "thrones" and having "golden [stephanos/]crowns" to be representing "the Church which is His body..."]… rather than [the DOTL] starting at the later Rev19 point, as you seem to be saying.

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 19, 2018

PyongPing said:

When I say "Sin" I'm not referring to a singular sin committed, or such like...

PyongPing · Oct 19, 2018

TheDivineWatermark said:

The Bible defines "sin" -

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

There is no other definition of sin. That is the foundational definition.

You refer to this:

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

But mistake what it says. Sin in Romans 8:3 is still defined by 1 John 3:4. It (sin, which is transsgression of God's Law) was condemned in the flesh (of Jesus, who came in the likeness of sinful flesh). The perfect Life of Jesus, who did no sin, condemns "sin" (1 John 3:4), Why?, because Jesus was victorious in that sinful flesh and chose not to sin (1 John 3:4). Jesus took our sins upon Himself, and thus we may be forgiven our sin/s, since He paid the penalty to redeem.

PyongPing · Oct 19, 2018

TheDivineWatermark said:

No such scripture exists. Will there be tribulation, Yes.

Are You Believing a Heresy? You Might According to a New Study

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